Factory Installed Solar Charging System

[Rich W]

We have a factory installed solar panel and the Sun Explorer monitor. I have replaced the original Lifeline batteries with brand new ones. Running on house AC the Sun Explorer panel, in the battery voltage position, normally shows 12.1 to 13 volts, never more. At night the battery percentage remaining, with LED lights in the overhead, is typically 75-85%, according to the Sun Explorer panel. If I turn on a light with an incandescent bulb, the percentage will drop to 65%. If I turn off most of the lights it will rise to 90 to 95% by bedtime. By morning it will 100% and 13 volts, never more.

I don't think the converter is putting out enough, or any, DC power. I would think that when voltage is below 12.5 the converter would be at 13.2 volts or higher. I've tested the voltage with a multimeter and it matches what the Sun Explorer shows.

Is it time to replace the converter???

[lewster]

YES! It should have been replaced long ago and is primarily responsible for killing your Lifelines.

Also, the charging set points if your solar are not doing your Lifelines any favors either.


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

[Gary W Wong]

Thanks for starting the solar category.. I will post my information soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[SilverGate]

Originally Posted by richw46

We have a factory installed solar panel and the Sun Explorer monitor. I have replaced the original Lifeline batteries with brand new ones. Running on house AC the Sun Explorer panel, in the battery voltage position, normally shows 12.1 to 13 volts, never more. At night the battery percentage remaining, with LED lights in the overhead, is typically 75-85%, according to the Sun Explorer panel. If I turn on a light with an incandescent bulb, the percentage will drop to 65%. If I turn off most of the lights it will rise to 90 to 95% by bedtime. By morning it will 100% and 13 volts, never more.

I don't think the converter is putting out enough, or any, DC power. I would think that when voltage is below 12.5 the converter would be at 13.2 volts or higher. I've tested the voltage with a multimeter and it matches what the Sun Explorer shows.

Is it time to replace the converter???

Yes, you need to protect your Lifeline AGM batteries with at least a 3-stage converter, not with the OEM converter.

Here is how I found out:

Battery at 45% even though connected to shore power

Here is the converter that I installed that serves and protects my AGMs:

Parallax Converter Replacement with Xantrex

Not all 3-stage converters are AGM friendly:

How my Airstream lost its mojo in the carport

[mikebee]

Originally Posted by richw46

We have a factory installed solar panel and the Sun Explorer monitor. I have replaced the original Lifeline batteries with brand new ones. Running on house AC the Sun Explorer panel, in the battery voltage position, normally shows 12.1 to 13 volts, never more. At night the battery percentage remaining, with LED lights in the overhead, is typically 75-85%, according to the Sun Explorer panel. If I turn on a light with an incandescent bulb, the percentage will drop to 65%. If I turn off most of the lights it will rise to 90 to 95% by bedtime. By morning it will 100% and 13 volts, never more.

I don't think the converter is putting out enough, or any, DC power. I would think that when voltage is below 12.5 the converter would be at 13.2 volts or higher. I've tested the voltage with a multimeter and it matches what the Sun Explorer shows.

Is it time to replace the converter???

You should probably think about replacing the factory installed Sun Explorer monitor and Atkinson Electronics solar charge controller, too. I suspected that the controller wasn't putting out the proper voltages to charge the Lifeline AGM batteries and it cannot be reprogrammed. In addition, the Sun Explorer monitor only uses voltage to calculate a percentage charged. It uses 12.8vdc as the point for 100%. See the spec sheet on the page 14:
http://www.atkinsonelectronics.com/m...DM4-LC-KIT.pdf

When you place loads on the battery or the controller charges the battery, you're going to get rapidly changing values for the percentage since the voltage at the charge controller shunt is also changing.

For myself, these components' way of charging and measuring battery charge were unacceptably inaccurate. I replaced the factory charge controller with a Bogart Engineering SC-2030 combined with a TM-2030 Trimetric monitor. I also upgraded the cables to my battery, and installed a thermal breaker to the controller and on-off switch to the solar panels. It was a DIY install. I left the SunExplorer panel on the wall and it is not functional. Now I can assure the solar charging has proper voltages and accurately measure the batteries' charge. (If only I could figure out an easy way to place the Trimetric where the SunExplorer was in the galley of my 2014 27FB Eddie Bauer -- has anyone done this? Please help!)

Any of the recommended replacements on these forums would be better than the Atkinson Electronics kit. Think about replacing your charge controller and monitor if you want more accurate charging and monitoring.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[lewster]

I am in the middle of a 540 watt solar installation on a 27 EB and after removing the 2 50 watt stock panels, found the Atkinson wiring in the curb side rat's nest of wires. The OEM 10 AWG solar wiring (green and yellow) terminated there as well.

The positive solar wire (too small to call a cable) was connected to the tiny solar controller with a wire nut. The red charge line from the controller then was attached to a 14 AWG fuse holder, which then went the positive bur bar.

Do you think there was just a bit of voltage drop in this system????? I am amazed that they work at all!!


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

[mikebee]

Originally Posted by lewster

I am in the middle of a 540 watt solar installation on a 27 EB and after removing the 2 50 watt stock panels, found the Atkinson wiring in the curb side rat's nest of wires. The OEM 10 AWG solar wiring (green and yellow) terminated there as well.

The positive solar wire (too small to call a cable) was connected to the tiny solar controller with a wire nut. The red charge line from the controller then was attached to a 14 AWG fuse holder, which then went the positive bur bar.

Do you think there was just a bit of voltage drop in this system????? I am amazed that they work at all!!

Lew Farber

No kidding! I had the same experience and found the wiring hub to be confusing and terrible. They used a wire nut to connect the 10awg positive solar wire from the roof to the permanently-affixed 14awg lead coming off the Atkinson charge controller. There was also a 10 amp inline fuse.

I disconnected the factory install WFCO inverter which had its own 6awg cables to the batteries. Rather than using the bus bar as originally installed, I used one of the 6awg cables to connect the new solar controller positive side directly to the batteries. A negative 6awg goes to the shunt.

Next step will be to run new cables to the roof and add more panels. Last step will be to re-install a better inverter with an upgraded set of cables to the batteries.

Now if I could only figure out how to install the Magnum inverter/charger and eliminate the Parallax from charging..... Anybody have any good pictures of upgraded installs with a magnum inverter/charger?


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[gandttimes]

Originally Posted by mikebee

No kidding! I had the same experience and found the wiring hub to be confusing and terrible. They used a wire nut to connect the 10awg positive solar wire from the roof to the permanently-affixed 14awg lead coming off the Atkinson charge controller. There was also a 10 amp inline fuse.

I disconnected the factory install WFCO inverter which had its own 6awg cables to the batteries. Rather than using the bus bar as originally installed, I used one of the 6awg cables to connect the new solar controller positive side directly to the batteries. A negative 6awg goes to the shunt.

Next step will be to run new cables to the roof and add more panels. Last step will be to re-install a better inverter with an upgraded set of cables to the batteries.

Now if I could only figure out how to install the Magnum inverter/charger and eliminate the Parallax from charging..... Anybody have any good pictures of upgraded installs with a magnum inverter/charger?


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

If you go to handybob'ssolarblog and look under his 2014 solar ideas, batteries, there is a good picture of the magnum installed for a small full time trailer.


George

[Tincampers]

I really appreciate Solarbobs information,but it sure is tedious getting to the meat of it. His ego is just to much to bear in large chunks of time.

[Rich W]

Originally Posted by lewster

YES! It should have been replaced long ago and is primarily responsible for killing your Lifelines.

Also, the charging set points if your solar are not doing your Lifelines any favors either.
Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

Hi Lew, we just purchased this AS last year. The PO said there was a couple of years life left in the existing LL batteries. I went ahead and bought new ones anyway. After I swapped them out I put a battery tester on each of the old ones and both tested in the moderate category. They both take and hold a charge when I use my stand alone charger. But when dry camping for a couple of days the Sun Explorer would drop to 65% with very little use. We thought it was the batteries because the solar didn't raise the level very much despite full sun. Even when connected to shore power we drop to 70%. This morning the Sun Explorer bounced between 85% and 100%; back and forth, back and forth

Originally Posted by SilverGate

Yes, you need to protect your Lifeline AGM batteries with at least a 3-stage converter, not with the OEM converter.

Good advice SilverGate, but I don't see the existing Parallax putting out much more than 12.7 volts. I see only 13v when the Sun Explorer shows 100%. Most of the time I'm reading 12.5 volts, on the Sun Explorer or with my volt meter. I periodically set the switch to 'store' if I see 100%. But we've been out for a month and it's rare to get to 100% and stay there. I can turn on the lights and it immediately drops to 90% and the more lights the more it drops the percentage in the Sun Explorer. I have converted almost all the bulbs to LED. When I turn on the 'scare' light or one of the bulbs with an incandescent light the % available drops 10%. That really seems odd. Even turning on a double LED will drop it 5%.

------

I really don't like throwing parts at a problem. Since I'm not showing 100% except first thing in the morning or if we shut everything off and go out for the afternoon, I don't think I'm hurting the batteries. I still have the original LL batteries and they are still pretty good. Either the Sun Explorer display is whack, the Parallax is bad or both.

When I get back to the house I'm going to remove the 12v connection and see what the output voltage is from the Parallax. Even so, I think it's probably a good idea to replace the converter. We haven't done a lot of camping but now that I'm retired we plan on a lot more traveling. I guess I can upgrade the converter and see what happens. If the Sun Explorer is then I'll just ignore it. As long as the voltage is showing 12.2 to 13.2 I know I'm getting enough voltage and I'm not constantly draining or overcharging the batteries.

The Sun Explorer is very confusing, however. I'm not even sure that it's working.

[jmpgino]

The screen suddenly gone blank, batteries reading 12.65volts. Looked at trouble shooting book and found a fuse linked Into the module under bed, fuse was fine. Unit is hooked up to house power, disconnected the power line and stated to use the batteries, they slowly drain but still no reading from the screen when I push the buttons.
Anybody god any ideas please.

[SilverGate]

Originally Posted by jmpgino

The screen suddenly gone blank, batteries reading 12.65volts. Looked at trouble shooting book and found a fuse linked Into the module under bed, fuse was fine. Unit is hooked up to house power, disconnected the power line and stated to use the batteries, they slowly drain but still no reading from the screen when I push the buttons.
Anybody god any ideas please.

Not sure if this will help, but check out post #85 on this thread and the posts below it on that same page.

[Billyg]

Originally Posted by SilverGate

The Panel Display shows the status of the battery in % Remaining, and in Volts. It also can display the Solar Charge Amps currently being produced as well as a running total in amp/hrs.
At the bottom of the panel display is printed SUNEXPLORER TM. I would like more information about this component.

Just installed solar and awnings at the Airstream dealer. All works well except for the display panel. It just blinks. Same one as in the photo , the Sunexplorer. Guess I just got a bad display. Hope that's all it is. It just blinks and displays nothing even after pressing the small button on the side. ??

[jwebbs]

2016 International installed Solar at Airsteam dealer. Unit clicks continuously and lights inside flutter. Does anyone know the problem?

Thanks. Jwebbs

[Rocinante]

I'd be asking the dealer that question. Are you anywhere near them? Might need them to fix something under warranty.

Our next solar install will not be done by an AS dealer - it will be done by a solar expert or by us with guidance from one.

[switz]

A local dealer tried to replicate my system on another customer's trailer. With no real knowledge, the job was doomed from the get go. Lots of issues.

If they can not get the issue resolved, find some outfit that specializes in RV solar systems.

[lewster]

That must have been some circus!!


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center*AMS Lithium Batteries
Lifeline AGM Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

[rcwarren]

Originally Posted by TBRich

Thanks for your post, Ray... 65% doesn't seem out of line to me...but it got me thinking, and I'm not sure what one can expect to be "normal" reduction of battery % for an evening. We haven't dry camped enough to get a sense of it. The one time we did rely on the batteries, we used the power as we normally would (except no AC, Micro, etc, of course)...but we had the lights on, the fantastic fan going and either the CD player or the TV (on the inverter), followed by a 2 hour movie...we didn't skimp on use and the batteries went down to 65% I believe... I thought that was not unreasonable... We moved on to another campfround the next day, hitting the road about 11 am and I believe by the time we got to the next stop about 2 PM we were at 100% again.

Can anyone give us a sense of what an expected % of battery drain can be expected during an evening with moderate to high power use? And at what point have we reached critical mass? And how quickly we can expect to recover to 100%..(a) on 1 53 watt solar in sunny conditions...and (b) charging while in tow?

Happy Solar Trails,
TB

Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[KimberlyA]

On my 2005 31' Classic my Atkinson PVCM25D is clicking like one-million monkeys trying to write Shakespeare. I called Atkinson and got a nice guy on the phone, says he gets this call all the time but to check the connections from the battery to the controller and everywhere there is a connection from the main bat. cables to anywhere else.

So I did.

And the problem comes back.

The only time that it's NOT clicking like an Uzzi on Viagra is when the house batteries are completely disconnected and I'm hooked to 110 shore power. Then it only clicks once every hour or so...ish.

I would LOOOOOVE to replace this Atkinson thing with something better, but don't want to rip out all the 'everything else'.

I read about a good Bogart replacement, but am wondering if anyone has a thread regarding a complete Bogart install. I went to Solar Bob and found the same ego-filled library that kind of turns one off instantly.

Thanks for all who have contributed to this GOLD MINE of a thread.

[alano]

Not sure if this was covered previously in this thread, but if you are looking at replacing the Atkinson controller, you should perhaps take a look at the Blue Sky controllers. In your case, the Solar Boost 1524iX would be an excellent choice along with the IPN Pro remote, shunt kit and temperature compensation. This controller can replace your Atkinson controller with a modern MPPT controller and the IPN Pro remote can replace the Atkinson remote.

The existing CAT 5 cable between the Atkinson controller and remote will work with the Blue Sky system with some minor modifications. The 1524iX will also let you add additional solar capacity to 200 W.