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Old 08-31-2007, 02:50 PM   #21
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Factory Installed Solar Charging System

I hope this is the proper way to add to the discussion.

My 2006 Safari LS 23 foot had a factory installed solar panel. It was never wired to the batteries or connected from the factory. The Safari is prewired up to the lower refrigerator exterior access door, so the RV tech drilled a hole in the roof, ran a wire behind the microwave, along the back of the refrigerator and made the connection with a fuse. When you are a first time trailer owner, the learning curve had been steep trying to figure out why something does not operate. The solar panel operated fine since that experience.

One thing I have noticed is our batteries may not be holding the charge as well as they should. They are the sealed, add no water, batteries (sorry, not able to get name where I am at) and the 100% charge seems to drop to 65% in the evening, with only moderate use. I suspect that the irregular gravel roads on our western travels might have caused lead debris to fall between the plates and some are shorted. (?) Just curious. We will run the radio, a reading light and early evening the Magic Fan vent.

Also... My white vent cover for the rear broke on this trip while parked. The solar panel was installed so close to the vent bracket that I had to use all of my mechanical ability to reinstall the new lid, before I broke it trying to install it. There is plenty of space towards the air conditioner so it is advised that the panel be moved closer to the air conditioner. Reason: You cannot get the replacement lid attached, easily, unless you can attach it at a 90 degree angle, rather than the 30 degree I had to cautiously work with...
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Old 08-31-2007, 07:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Eklund
One thing I have noticed is our batteries may not be holding the charge as well as they should. They are the sealed, add no water, batteries (sorry, not able to get name where I am at) and the 100% charge seems to drop to 65% in the evening, with only moderate use. I suspect that the irregular gravel roads on our western travels might have caused lead debris to fall between the plates and some are shorted. (?) Just curious. We will run the radio, a reading light and early evening the Magic Fan vent.
Thanks for your post, Ray... 65% doesn't seem out of line to me...but it got me thinking, and I'm not sure what one can expect to be "normal" reduction of battery % for an evening. We haven't dry camped enough to get a sense of it. The one time we did rely on the batteries, we used the power as we normally would (except no AC, Micro, etc, of course)...but we had the lights on, the fantastic fan going and either the CD player or the TV (on the inverter), followed by a 2 hour movie...we didn't skimp on use and the batteries went down to 65% I believe... I thought that was not unreasonable... We moved on to another campfround the next day, hitting the road about 11 am and I believe by the time we got to the next stop about 2 PM we were at 100% again.

Can anyone give us a sense of what an expected % of battery drain can be expected during an evening with moderate to high power use? And at what point have we reached critical mass? And how quickly we can expect to recover to 100%..(a) on 1 53 watt solar in sunny conditions...and (b) charging while in tow?

Happy Solar Trails,
TB
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:35 PM   #23
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How many batteries do you have? One or Two?
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:49 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by thecatsandi
How many batteries do you have? One or Two?
Michelle...we have 2 12-volts, sealed...

TB

PS: Born & raised in Meridian, ID, just west of Boise. Haven't been back in nearly a million years.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:59 PM   #25
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DRawing down from 100 to 65% seems a little high if you have to batteries. What are ALL your loads? I can "boondock" for on night using the furnace and only get down to 75%.
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecatsandi
DRawing down from 100 to 65% seems a little high if you have to batteries. What are ALL your loads? I can "boondock" for on night using the furnace and only get down to 75%.
Thanks, Michelle...I will keep an eye on the consumption numbers and record the loads being used...then if I feel like it's going too deep in the reserves I will have it checked out. We haven't had enough boondocking experience yet to reallly have a sense of what is "normal" use for us or if it's behaving as it should...and my guess is that we were really not being very conservative in our power uses. I appreciate your input! We need to do more dry camping!!

TB
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:24 PM   #27
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tbrich and ray...

IF you've got the factory installed solar package the batteries should be these agms...

Lifeline Marine Batteries - AGM Marine Battery & AGM RV Battery

no liquid/lead to 'shake' loose. these batteries can be mounted upside DOWN!

and most agms can be safely discharged to 30-40% without harm...

the f.s.p works fine.

it's expensive for what is included, but the upside is they thought it out and did the work.

ANY of the popular rv solar vendors can put together a better package for ya...

i use both the f.s.p and a genset ...

tbrich...

you really need to do an 'energy audit' to understand how much juice is used in your typical day...

this thread touches on that topic in post # 5

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...tors-3978.html

many of the solar vendors have a printout you can use, sort of like a net worth statement...

most folks don't want to run through the rather tedious 'amp accounting' process...

there is a ton of very specific solar info already posted here and the usual 'pieintheskysolarstuff too...

search member name 'roadkingmoe' who has many many many excellent posts on 'solar'

david tidmore also has some good solar info in these threads (dtbw)

here are a few to start ya....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...lar-11082.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...vice-3511.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f197...tion-2084.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...ing-11634.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...kage-7066.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...bank-9771.html

the average family will consume 80-100 amp/hours per day,

while 2-53 watt panels will provide up to 30 a/h per day under ideal conditions...

so if ya have solar and really wanna extend your boondocking time, increase the battery bank to 4 so as to have more capacity

this will provide about 240 usable a/h, while adding 130lbs to the trailer..

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-01-2007, 02:00 AM   #28
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Thanks a bunch, 2air'...this is very helpful and the threads you list are informative as well...looks like lots of folks have been down this road, so I will continue doing the research... And I think we need to do more dry camping to see the reality of our needs...I'm sure actual experience in these things is a great teacher...

I would hope that the factory installed solar systems would be robust enough to meet basic needs, but I won't know that until we experiment more.

TB
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Old 09-01-2007, 03:01 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
the f.s.p works fine...

cheers
2air'
Thanks 2air’… I’ve been waiting for your input…

Glad your Factory-installed Solar Panel System works fine!

And I understand that you, thecatsandi, & others have the two panels and are contemplating adding additional panels, either permanently attached or portable…
This would help recharge the batteries more quickly and/or enable you to park in the shade and still generate some amps with the portable panel(s).

Yes, it may seem expensive, but how do you put a price on the piece of mind that comes with knowing that your system will recharge itself and your batteries will be sustained, especially with frugal use of electricity.

Other solar vendors might be able to put together a better package, but the downside is that they might damage your trailer… put dents where they don’t belong… cause more leaks, etc.

At least the Airstream Factory-Installed Solar Charging System is covered by the Airstream 2-yr. Warranty, and certain solar components by the SUNEXPLORER, Inc. 5-yr. Warranty.

Thanks for adding the links here for more information about solar power & AGM batteries.

I hasten to add, however (as mentioned in Post #1 of this thread), a reminder that this is a thread with the focus primarily on the Factory-installed Solar Charging System, and not on other systems, including generators.

BTW, we use much less than 80 – 100 amp/hrs per day and our 2, 53-watt panels provide an average of 39.5 amp hrs on sunny days and 29 amp/hrs on cloudy days. As mentioned in my post #9 here, I’ve kept detailed log records that have helped us understand our system and electrical usage. Click on the attached thumbnail of post #9 (page 1) to see an enlarged sample page of our log on a non-hook-up outing in a wooded, mountain San Diego County Park. It will show that we made 49.5 amp/hrs on June 14 and 33.3 amp/hrs on June 15. It also shows that the lowest the batteries dropped to was 80% during the night, which rebounded to 100% by 0905.

Cheers
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Old 09-01-2007, 03:12 AM   #30
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Now We're Cookin' With Solar!

Thecatsandi – Thanks for your input. Would like to hear more details about your factory-installed system, how it performs in different parts of the country, etc.

Davidz71– Glad you are happy with your 3 panel system, albeit some other system, that has "worked without fail".

SilverRanger – Thanks for your comments. Glad your factory-installed solar package "worked flawlessly". Batteries’ dropping to 75-80% at night, and rebounding the next day to 100%, corresponds to my experience.

TBRichThanks for your continued input and excellent questions. Hopefully we can get others to join in on this topic and add to our growing database.

Ray Eklund – Sorry to hear your factory-installed panel was not initially connected with the rest of the system, but eventually corrected, under warranty, I hope. Glad that it works fine now!

BTW, if you are going to move the panel, you might as well add a second panel (see my panels in post #2 here). You will find your system will work more efficiently, and there's room for it on your 23' Safari!

As you have read here, batteries' dropping to 65% at night is certainly within normal limits, especially when you turn on the ceiling or reading lights. Early one morning while cooking (using stove exhaust fan and light), we had the stereo and furnace on. The battery was at 75%. When I turned the ceiling lights on, the battery went to 65%.

Changing to LED’s will significantly reduce electrical consumption.
We have already replaced our exterior lights with LED’s. See Post #200 of the following thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f396/silvergates-safari-home-last-29471-15.html

We also plan on changing out the interior standard lights to LED’s. In the meantime, we use alternative power-saving lights, such as the portable, battery-operated LED desk light as seen on post #202 of the above thread.

SilverGate
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Old 09-02-2007, 03:01 PM   #31
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Thanks, SiverGate, for helping us novices to "digest" the input we are getting on this thread. We have so little experience at actually relying on our factory installed solar system, it's good to know that others have gone before us are willing to share their knowledge. It's also helpful to those who are considering including solar systems when they order new units.

I doubt that we would add another panel to our system because of the size of our Bambi, so we are enjoying hearing others' experiences with the factory system...as well as hints to help conserve power usage and make the most of it. The LED light replacement makes sense...not only in hte decreased draw on power, but also the decrease in heat generated by the halogen lights...they get hot...and in AZ we usually don't need more heat!

By the way, we have just ordered Zip Dee awnings for the street side and rear of the Bambi to increase the amount of shade on the skin...we're looking forward to getting those, and will post feedback about the effect they have on holding down interior temps. To those who are ordering new units...if you want these awnings on your coach...order them as a package on your new AS...it's less expensive to do that way!

Here's to more dry camping!
TB
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Old 09-04-2007, 01:10 PM   #32
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configurable monitor?

SilverGate: great thread (as usual). Thanks!

To the f.s.p. folks: I wonder if the controller/monitor is configurable, with respect to the battery bank capacity?

Ray Eklund's question about his monitor reporting a drop to 65% got me thinking about the charge controller I saw in SilverGate's rig: it has a built-in 25A shunt, presumably for the purpose of monitoring amp-hours fed from the panel(s) on to the batteries. I'm not sure if it's really just looking at apparent voltage, vice tracking actual amp-hours in/out of the battery bank...

Since the monitor provides a percentage reading (among other things) I figure it might have some notion of the battery bank capacity, if it's tracking Amps in/out.

So I wonder if you can set the battery capacity for the monitor? Maybe Ray's monitor just thinks he has less capacity that he really does, thus reports the batteries drawing down faster than they really are?
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5cats
...Since the monitor provides a percentage reading (among other things) I figure it might have some notion of the battery bank capacity, if it's tracking Amps in/out. So I wonder if you can set the battery capacity for the monitor? Maybe Ray's monitor just thinks he has less capacity that he really does, thus reports the batteries drawing down faster than they really are?
Good point! I was reading the installation manual for the Bogart Engineering Trimetrics 2000 and it said that you had to enter the size of the battery bank in order for the meter to read the percentage of battery power that was being used. You make a good point in that the calibration may be off and showing he is using more from his batteries than he is.
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:23 PM   #34
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We have had our 2007 23' Safari SE LS since Jan 18 and have spent around 90 nights in it so far. We have two 53 watt factory installed solar panels similar to SilverGates. However instead of being installed side by side they are front to back beetween the air conditioner and the rear vent. It is a tight fit and part of the front solar panel is somewhat beneath the A/C cover which I believe reduces its efficiency somewhat.

Prior to the Airsteam we ownded a 2619 TrailManor, a folding solid trailer. It had a dealer installed 100 watt solar panel and kept our batteries well charged in over 300 hights of camping. We had a 3.5 KW Onan genset on the trailer that we never used.

So we now use our Airstream for dry camping and we do not bring along a generator. We changed some of the interior lights to LEDs so that we could more efficiently use our batteries when dry camping. We changed all the interior non-halogen incadescent bulbs, and the two halogen lights over the bathroom sink to LEDs. We also changed the patio light and stair light to LEDs. When dry camping we use only LED lights, and LED headsets for reading. We have camped up to two weeks at one spot and have managed to keep our batteries from discharging. Our most difficult camping wrt conserving battery power was at Prairie Creek State Park in the northern CA Redwoods. It was foggy and cloudy much of the time and the tree cover was very heavy. We only got very little solar recharge. At the end of two weeks our batteries were down to 45% charge.

In most places in the southwest we have no problem recharging our batteries during the day. We use our notebook computer around 2 hours a day to store and organize photos from 3 cameras, as well the fantastic fan, LED lights and so on. We do have the 600 watt factory installed invertor, which is very convenient for charging camera, cell phone and computer batteries.

We are leaving for a one month trip to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons in a couple days. However, on this trip we will have shore power at most places we camp.
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:48 PM   #35
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Our two factory installed solar panels mounted side to side in front of the AC have worked perfectly for us. We shut everything down during the day while we are out daytripping and that night after running the tv (direct 12v, not through a converter), lights, and fans, we rarely drop to 75% on the meter, usually 85%. By the time we return to the AS the next evening it is back up to 100%.

We do carry a generator for those times we need to cool the interior down or run the convection oven, but rarely use it.

Overall, the solar setup has been great for boondocking and has worked perfectly.
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5cats
SilverGate: great thread (as usual). Thanks!

To the f.s.p. folks: I wonder if the controller/monitor is configurable, with respect to the battery bank capacity?

Ray Eklund's question about his monitor reporting a drop to 65% got me thinking about the charge controller I saw in SilverGate's rig: it has a built-in 25A shunt, presumably for the purpose of monitoring amp-hours fed from the panel(s) on to the batteries. I'm not sure if it's really just looking at apparent voltage, vice tracking actual amp-hours in/out of the battery bank...

Since the monitor provides a percentage reading (among other things) I figure it might have some notion of the battery bank capacity, if it's tracking Amps in/out.

So I wonder if you can set the battery capacity for the monitor? Maybe Ray's monitor just thinks he has less capacity that he really does, thus reports the batteries drawing down faster than they really are?
Good question, and I don't know the answer...but it makes sense based on following posts. I don't remember seeing anything in the literature about calibrating the monitor...SilverGate, do you know?... How about the AS service guys among us?

TB
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:05 PM   #37
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It's really great to hear that the factory installed solar systems are working well for folks (most recently RazorBack and OrangeKid)... It inspires me to get out there and really see how we do when depending on the Bambi's single 53 watt panel...seeing it gives us enough juice to keep us going...

OrangeKid...enjoy the trip to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons...that will be a fantastic trip! Orange with envy...

TB
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:17 PM   #38
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...uh, slight hijack here.. but, OrangeKid, please post where you camp in the Tetons and Yellowstone. I am also headed out that way later this fall (or maybe spring) and would like to know some good spots. Thanks!
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Old 09-05-2007, 03:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetstream
...uh, slight hijack here.. but, OrangeKid, please post where you camp in the Tetons and Yellowstone. I am also headed out that way later this fall (or maybe spring) and would like to know some good spots. Thanks!
In Yellowstone we are camping at Fishing Bridge and in the Tetons we are camping at Colter Bay. Both have full hookups. We like to camp in the National Parks as opposed to RV places outside the park.
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:10 PM   #40
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tetstream... I see you have a 2007 19' Bambi...does your unit have a factory solar panel? If so, how is it doing for you?

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