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02-13-2017, 07:09 AM
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#41
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,214
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Both of our 2000 watt Honda generators have been modified with the GenConnex propane only conversion. The first one took me about 90 minutes to do and the second was about 45 minutes to do. They have a two unit hose with regulator that will work fine from a 30 pound propane tank but two units could have an issue running off a single 20 pound propane tank under certain circumstances as the liquid propane could not vaporize fast enough to feed both units. They also have a hose to connect directly to the Airstream grill outlet which can handle a single 2000 watt Honda satisfactorily.
http://www.genconnexdirect.net
Our 2015 23D International Serenity has been greatly modified. We have five AM Solar 100 watt solar panels on the roof that are connected to a Magnum hybrid MS-3012 inverter/converter. The Magnum can draw the necessary extra electric power from the 300 amp hour lithium battery to cover the surge necessary to start the 13,500 BTU air conditioner. The 2000 watt Honda then can run along carrying the running load just fine. The system behaves just like it was on shore power cycling on and off as needed.
We added a front power inlet with a real transfer switch (not the cheap solid state failure prone device Airstream installs) so the custom six foot power cord reaches from the Honda that gets it's gas from the grill outlet at the front of the trailer and is chained to the trailer frame to slow down it's departure.
One must realize that a generator provides the electricity for a power cutter a thief would use to steal the unit. Out of sight, out of mind when not in use.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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02-14-2017, 01:02 AM
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#42
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 479
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We bought the Champion 3500 dual fuel. I believe it to be quieter than two Hondas or Yamahas for sure. Compared to a single of similar wattage I believe you would be splitting hairs on the decibel levels. So far it has been a great generator and does not run hot as another poster suggested even though he has never used one. $1150 for 3500 watts and dual dual fuel...beats the cost of two Hondas by a bunch! Plus, you only have to handle and maintain one. By the way, the reviews on Amazon and Camping World are pretty good.
__________________
Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On
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02-14-2017, 07:09 AM
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#43
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,214
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The GenConnex propane conversion removes the gasoline tank from the Honda 2000 (also can be done to the 3000 watt model) so the weight goes down several pounds from the advertised 46 pounds with stored gasoline in the unit. At age 72 soon, my days of lifting 80 pound hay bales were a long time ago. I can handle the 43 pounds okay.
We are somewhat weight constrained using our 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI to tow the 23D. At this point, we can safely scale the Mercedes with a Viair 450P compressor, a Solaire grill and stand, a Honda 2000, a 30 pound propane tank and the hitch tools and water equipment bucket all in the back hidden by the cover. We have the two ZipDee chairs (fabric matches the International Serenity awning) in the second seat. We can also have the clothing necessary for the season. We still have several hundred pounds of payload room in case some other items are needed. When we get to the destination, we have a comfortable vehicle to drive around in.
If one wants to run everything with 50 amp service, then the Honda EU7000iS will easily do the job, but at 261 pounds dry weight it will need to be mounted in a truck bed. It will run about 18 hours on five gallons of gasoline. It has a 30 amp 240 Vac outlet which is 30 amps on each leg that would run everything in the coach.
For the 2000 watt Honda,there is a lock down plate system that will keep it attached to the trailer hitch or truck bed. It is quite heavy.
http://www.perfectcasita.com/ho20semosy.html
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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02-16-2017, 11:46 PM
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#44
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1 Rivet Member
1970 23' Safari
Fresno
, California
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 17
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Propane Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by switz
The GenConnex propane conversion removes the gasoline tank from the Honda 2000.
For the 2000 watt Honda,there is a lock down plate system that will keep it attached to the trailer hitch or truck bed. It is quite heavy.
http://www.perfectcasita.com/ho20semosy.html
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Yes I'm familiar with the lowprolock systems although mounting to the tongue is proving to be both a challenge and perhaps not a smart thing to do, so I'm thinking about maybe going with a little red wagon and lock with the lowpro then figure out a way to lock the wagon to the tongue, hitch, or someplace where someone can't just help themselves. I think I can wheel it up into my Bambi or rig something to help me (disability reminder)...
So if you ran the Honda 2000 from your propane tank (please reconfirm size when you answer), how long could you reasonably expect to run your AC for before running out of propane? The info I'm getting on the Champion Dual Fuel (it's a 3000 model of some kind, maybe 3100?) is about 7 hours per 20 pound tank. I was really hoping for better than that as it doesn't even allow me a full nights rest per tank. Hmmm, that just doesn't seem right when a gallon of regular gas can go almost have that amount...Propane seems a no brainer as it's already there on the tongue, there are the 2 large tanks, and why carry something that's gonna spill all over the place and make the generators even more heavy, but the efficiency concerns me (I'll re-read the thread to see what others have said as well), but curious as to the results you've had with duration on a single tank running AC before you had to get more propane?
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02-17-2017, 06:43 AM
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#45
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Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,401
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Best GENERATOR for Bambi 16' Full Timing... PLEASE HELP
I can't speak to the fuel consumption of the Champion but I do own a tri-fuel Yamaha 2000 inverter/generator. I carry it for safety purposes to power my wife's overnight dialysis equipment in case of loss of campground power. It's big enough to run that equipment, and provide ample power for furnace, inside lights, refrigerator and Fantastic fans if necessary along with the dialysis equipment. The third fuel it uses is natural gas which I can connect to when home. While I've not been forced to use it on the road, I did have a power outage at home about 4 months after I bought it. Fuel consumption is equivalent to gasoline and a gallon of propane will get me at least 8-10 hours of run time.
As others have noted be sure to get an inverter/generator to protect the electronics. The other advantage of the inverter/generator is its ability to match the motor speed to the load requirement. A lot of generator only units will run a constant high speed so it will use more fuel. The inverter/generator will throttle down as the load diminishes thus saving fuel.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
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02-17-2017, 02:35 PM
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#46
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Rivet Master
1973 Argosy 24
hartselle
, Alabama
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 582
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I went with the yamaha 2400 as it is able to pull my 13500 ac unit with ease and is a single unit. You wouldn't be able to run the microwave and ac at the same time. I don't carry a microwave so its not a issue for me.
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02-17-2017, 03:43 PM
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#47
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Rivet Master
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,023
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I live in California, in the Central valley where it gets really hot in the summer. I've camped for years in this state, but along the coast or up in the mountains where it's cool. I've never needed a generator for the air conditioner. On the rare occasions we've purposely camped where it's hot I go to a RV park with hookups. Are you thinking of camping in Death Valley in the summer?
Also, as someone mentioned, it won't be appreciated by your fellow campers to run a generator all day. I suggest getting solar panels to keep your batteries and laptop charged. Follow the temperate weather, this is a very large and geographically diverse state state.
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02-17-2017, 05:28 PM
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#48
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Rivet Master
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7,620
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Fulltiming in a Bambi? My hat's off to you.
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02-17-2017, 10:27 PM
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#49
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Walnut Creek
, California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,952
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The Champion is interesting, but it is heavier. I can lift 100lbs, but I don't want to lift that much. It is less expensive and Costco is reported to discount the LPG versions and ship to your local store.
The Honda 2000 meets all the needs, except AC and it's only about 50lbs. There is a soft start module that is supposed to provide power in phases to start and run a 15KBTU AC unit. The module is about $350 plus labor. The Honda setup for LPG by GenConnex is about $1600. A pair is about $3100 if you have to have that much power. So the Honda approach is expensive. And the Micro Air module install is reported to void the AC warranty.
http://www.microair.net/main/products/product.php?id=20
The recommendation to travel temperate areas and spend time in FHU RV parks when it's hot has merit.
When we started thinking about a generator, folks said they store theirs in a plastic storage box. We think we will give that a try and keep it in the coach when not in use. Should give us an easily handled package for generator, security cable and power cords. We are told that 1-2 hours a day should keep us charged, so the neighbors should not get too upset from the noise.
Good luck with your research. Pat
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02-18-2017, 12:29 PM
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#50
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Rivet Master
2008 22' Safari
Spicewood (W of Austin)
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,919
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I have often read, and been advised by others while camping and using my non-inverter generator...to use a power-supply-filter or conditioner/surge-protector/sine-wave purifier or whatever... to prevent damage to sensitive electronics in the trailer.
I have been cautioned many times by well-meaning fellow-campers about running my television, stereo, refrigerator, furnace, AC unit, water heater....(many of which have electronic control printed circuit-board controllers incorporated)... that I am subject to being a victim of expensive repairs if I keep running on my ordinary non-inverter generator. (Many such devices have owner's manuals which warn against operation on modified or square-wave systems.)
I believe it's a common misperception that ordinary generators provide square or modified sine-wave power and these well-meaning folks are in error.
It's the INVERTERS which commonly produce square or "modified" sine-wave power. (Although a few high-end types do produce pure sine-wave, most do not.) Therefore if you have a square or modified sine-wave INVERTER TYPE GENERATOR.... you should ascertain whether or not your electronics are safe on that type system.
Ordinary, el-cheapo generators produce the same pure sine-wave the electric utility companies produce and which your electronics expect.
Also, many modern electronic devices have a "brick" or other power supply cord which have incorporated, a filtered-transformer which purifies the power as a function of the conversion to DC the electronic device requires. These are naturally protected by function from surges, power-variations, etc., ...for example the sort of worries many folks have at campsite power-pedestals... and if your electronics have that sort of power supply then you can rest easier about the matter.
So far, I've been running ordinary generators for camping as well as emergency household electrical supply for several years. I have modern, sophisticated computers, LED televisions, electronic/digital refrigerators and central-air units.... and none of them have ever had a problem on simple, common, ordinary non-inverter, gasoline generators, including "contractor" types.... which if you think about it, would certainly drive a few contractors out of business running their work-site offices and computers and security systems on them if they were a source of induced failures.
Just my experience and opinion.
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02-18-2017, 11:54 PM
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#51
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1 Rivet Member
1970 23' Safari
Fresno
, California
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 17
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Wasted Money on Generators, Giving up and Going Single Propane, so need help there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtwind
I can't imagine where you'd put that in the trailer. I had a 2014 16' Bambi and now have a 2017 19C. What is your tow vehicle? Can you find a place to mount it and leave it there and run it that way?
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I'm seeing no way to do what I want to do and it's just so disappointing that in a hot and humid environment where generators are a NECESSITY that an Airstream Dealer is completely worthless with helping one meet power needs. I invested in the EU2000s run in parallel due to the rave reviews, but in the end, that massive amount of work needed to make them work for me is really ludicrous and it looks like I'm going to own a pair of the worlds heaviest door stops.
To answer your question, I drive a Lexus RX350 and there's just no way to mount anything but the trailer up to it. So how do I meet my energy needs while being disabled and unable to carry a generator of any size, even as small as the hondas. After some great comments about how well propane has worked for some, I'm thinking of going with the Champion 3400 dual fuel...I can find some kind of ramp to get it in and out of the trailer, it's on wheels, and it's so big that locking it to the front tongue and running it off the propane tanks would make it a long and messy ordeal for a thief to tackle and give me plenty of time to call for police assistance. So now my question has shifted from how to mount (just gotta give up that idea) and how do I hookup the Bambi Propane tanks to the Generator? I literally know nothing about propane, generators, but if it's as simple as buying some special connectors that Split from the tanks to fuel both the inside of the trailer and run the Generator, that does truly seem like the cleanest, most simple option...so my question is now, how is this done? Seriously I contacted Home Depot and was happy to support brick and mortar in return for being sold generator, extra parts, and instruction on how it all fits together, but what, no one at the hardware store knows anything about hardware anymore? Sheesh!
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02-19-2017, 12:52 AM
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#52
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 479
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I own the Champion Dual Fuel 3500. You will need a pair of these:
Then find a company in your town that deals in rubber products and have them attach these to the proper rubber hose designed for propane. One will then fit into the quick connect fitting on the trailer, the other end will fit into the quick connect fitting on the Champion. You can decide on the length of the hose. I made mine 20 feet so I could reach the bed of my pickup truck easily. Works perfectly.
__________________
Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On
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02-19-2017, 07:00 AM
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#53
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Rivet Master
2016 16' Sport
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,593
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Why not think about buying a truck and having the Hondas mounted in the back.
After you find and install a ramp then pull the 100 pound or so generator up the ramp your still going to need to secure it. As far as hoses are concerned a local propane dealer shoul be able to make a hose to connect to the LP port.
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02-19-2017, 08:00 AM
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#54
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Rivet Master
1973 Argosy 24
hartselle
, Alabama
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 582
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@Boxite
I too ran ordinary contractor grade generators for years with no damage to any of my electronics. For 16 years my trailer has doubled as a hunting cabin every winter with no utilities, and I have tried several different generator options. I did notice on a standard generator that my lights would brighten and dim with any engine rpm change or hiccup. After swapping to inverter type generators that phenomenon is completely gone. I am also much happier with the noise level and effeciency from the inverter type generators. I currently have a Honeywell 2000, a Honda 2000, a Yamaha 2400 (runs entire camper including ac), a titan 8500 watt and a pair of 12500 watt military generators powered by the Hercules 4 cylinder (one set up for propane and one for gasoline). I decided on the yamaha for my trailer generator after owning the honda and realizing I would need two to run my whole trailer. I purchased the yamaha for less than a second honda and the parallel kit would have cost. The hondas weight is lighter than the Yamaha 2400 by 25 pounds but two out weigh the yamaha by 25 pounds. A single Yamaha is also more fuel efficient than two hondas.
The contractor grade generators have their place but a campground is not it. I have left several camping areas because of loud generators running all night, and I'm not one who is offended easy. Even with my ac running I can stand beside my yamaha and have a conversation without raising my voice, try that with a standard generator.
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02-19-2017, 09:51 AM
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#55
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Rivet Master
2008 22' Safari
Spicewood (W of Austin)
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1973Argosy
@Boxite
I too ran ordinary contractor grade generators for years with no damage to any of my electronics. For 16 years my trailer has doubled as a hunting cabin every winter with no utilities, and I have tried several different generator options. I did notice on a standard generator that my lights would brighten and dim with any engine rpm change or hiccup. After swapping to inverter type generators that phenomenon is completely gone. I am also much happier with the noise level and effeciency from the inverter type generators. I currently have a Honeywell 2000, a Honda 2000, a Yamaha 2400 (runs entire camper including ac), a titan 8500 watt and a pair of 12500 watt military generators powered by the Hercules 4 cylinder (one set up for propane and one for gasoline). I decided on the yamaha for my trailer generator after owning the honda and realizing I would need two to run my whole trailer. I purchased the yamaha for less than a second honda and the parallel kit would have cost. The hondas weight is lighter than the Yamaha 2400 by 25 pounds but two out weigh the yamaha by 25 pounds. A single Yamaha is also more fuel efficient than two hondas.
The contractor grade generators have their place but a campground is not it. I have left several camping areas because of loud generators running all night, and I'm not one who is offended easy. Even with my ac running I can stand beside my yamaha and have a conversation without raising my voice, try that with a standard generator.
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I agree that noise vs neighbors is an issue with most contractor-type generators. I was addressing only the electrical-side of the matter in my previous post.
I have a discontinued and that's why it cost only $149 model of Coleman/PowerMate which wieghs only 78 lbs. and puts out 2500 watts continuous/3250 surge (will run the Airstream AC, and accys just fine) and, while not as quiet as small Honda/Yamahas, is not as loud as most contractor models. I have never had anyone complain about noise, but I also do not run it 24-hrs in small campgrounds. (If I'm in a campground there's likely elect. available. My gen is usually for dry-camping far away from others, or run only occasionaly during mid-day, to re-charge batteries.)
If I were to run it continuously for AC useage,... then most folks are also inside avoiding the heat and have not complained.
I agree... being considerate of others is important. Several steps can be taken to reduce the impact of noise upon neighbors and environment:
1) Place the generator on the "off side" of the vehicle and/or campsite so noise is shielded from the neighbors.
2) Place sound-absorbing objects around the generator (even a tree-trunk between the gen and people will make a huge reduction in objectionable noise.)
3) A "pet-cage" of sound absorbent building material placed a foot away, but completely surrounding a gen will do wonders and yet not create a temperature or air-quality issue, especially when the gen is electrically connected via long extension cord AND behind other objects.
These solutions cost very little, allow the use of inexpensive generators, and ... this is important... avoid the overlooked issues of multiple generators maintenance/fuel-supply issues.
My little generator makes less noise than the Ford F-250 Diesels driving around the camprounds, and with only a small amount of attention can be made quite neighborly.
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03-10-2017, 11:48 AM
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#56
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Rivet Master
2023 23' International
Macon
, Georgia
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoe7009
I own the Champion Dual Fuel 3500. You will need a pair of these:
Attachment 280074
Then find a company in your town that deals in rubber products and have them attach these to the proper rubber hose designed for propane. One will then fit into the quick connect fitting on the trailer, the other end will fit into the quick connect fitting on the Champion. You can decide on the length of the hose. I made mine 20 feet so I could reach the bed of my pickup truck easily. Works perfectly.
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Mojoe: Couple of questions on this: Did you go with 1/4 inch ID rubber propane hose? And someone on the forum said you should use the small, second stage regulator that comes with the Champion generator, did you use it or just using the regulator on the Airstream tanks?
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03-10-2017, 12:44 PM
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#57
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtech
Mojoe: Couple of questions on this: Did you go with 1/4 inch ID rubber propane hose? And someone on the forum said you should use the small, second stage regulator that comes with the Champion generator, did you use it or just using the regulator on the Airstream tanks?
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I took the hose and regulator that comes with the generator to the place that made the hoses for me. They used the same size hose. I don't use the regulator that comes with the generator. Airstream LP is already pressure regulated I would think if you used both, there wouldn't be enough fuel pressure to the generator. Kinda doubling up.
__________________
Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On
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03-10-2017, 01:40 PM
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#58
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Rivet Master
2023 23' International
Macon
, Georgia
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoe7009
I took the hose and regulator that comes with the generator to the place that made the hoses for me. They used the same size hose. I don't use the regulator that comes with the generator. Airstream LP is already pressure regulated I would think if you used both, there wouldn't be enough fuel pressure to the generator. Kinda doubling up.
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My understanding is the Champion comes with a two stage regulator, a large one in series with a smaller one. Some are using the smaller Champion one after the one that is on the Airstream tanks. If your setup is working fine, then that's the way I will go. I have ordered a 3400 dual fuel.
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03-10-2017, 03:57 PM
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#59
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtech
My understanding is the Champion comes with a two stage regulator, a large one in series with a smaller one. Some are using the smaller Champion one after the one that is on the Airstream tanks. If your setup is working fine, then that's the way I will go. I have ordered a 3400 dual fuel.
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I only got one regulator with my Champion. Don't just take my word for it. Maybe verify with Champion before you try it my way! By the way, there is a 3500 dual fuel that is the same money as the 3400. A little extra never hurt, right?
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Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On
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03-10-2017, 04:04 PM
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#60
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoe7009
i only got one regulator with my champion. Don't just take my word for it. Maybe verify with champion before you try it my way! By the way, there is a 3500 dual fuel that is the same money as the 3400. A little extra never hurt, right?
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Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On
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