13.5k Penguin, Easystart, Honda eu2000 Troubleshooting Please

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by SilverHouseDreams

Micro-Air (Mateo?), I am curious if you have any testing with any of the compact dual fuel generators to date, such as the Sportsman 2200 Watt Dual Fuel Inverter Generator. I keep hoping Champion would produce a dual fuel generator in this weight class, or Westinghouse, or anyone else for that matter. I can't imagine they wouldn't have huge demand if they actually could support close to the same output as a gas EU2000i while powered with propane

Our propane and dual-fuel experience has been via our customers with the Honda EU2000i (converted via US Carb, Genconnex, and Hutch Mountain), the Yamaha EF2000iSv2 converted via US Carb, and the Champion 3100/2800 and 3400/3100 standard dual-fuel models. Unfortunately, we have no experience to date with the Sportsman 2200 Watt Dual Fuel model. All can deliver the same power output, less 10% because of the propane. However, this 10% doesn't cause a noticeable effect until a certain altitude is reached. This is because all 3 generator manufacturers "over design" their engine power to exceed the HP requirement at sea level, and they all provide their respective specified power requirements to differing altitudes. We only know that Honda EU2000i generators will deliver 2000W steady-state up to about 3000' on propane, and up to about 4500' on gasoline. Above that, you can recover some power on the Hondas on gasoline by rejetting the carburetors with one of two high-altitude jet kits. This doesn't recover the 10% loss of propane, nor the 3% loss per thousand feet of altitude, but it sets you back to both of those points without the further additional losses you incur otherwise. In other words, at 5000' on gasoline, you are losing more than 3% x 5 = 15% power, unless you rejet with the one of the high-altitude jet kits.

Originally Posted by pteck

So fresh gas...

1) Gen 1 indeed needed some fresh gas. Siphoned the remaining gas out and it was obviously separated. Which explains the corrosion I found in the bowl. Replaced with fresh gas and gave her a twirl.

2) Gen 2 gas looked just fine. Siphoned it out just the same and replaced it with some fresh stuff.

I'm combining the results as both gens still won't support the A/C. Exact same symptoms between the two. Compressor will attempt to come on. And within ~10 seconds, blower fan slows down, and everything kicks out. It's obvious there's a significant voltage drop and neither gen is up to the task.

Next steps are to attempt a controlled load test to see if anything is better. Though it's likely that I should just heed Matteo's suggestion and give them both a more thorough cleaning by way of a soak. Sensitive little things.

I will note that before I put them away last year, I gave both generators new plugs, filters, cleaned spark arrestors, and an oil change.

For those of you suggesting non-ethanol fuel. It's just not possible. SilverHouseDreams link shows the closest one more than 100 miles away. Thanks to our bureaucracy, this is just what we have to work with. Generators are suppose to be workhorses, and I can't be out searching for special fuel for it.

Pteck, I feel your pain and appreciate your relentless efforts. This is most frustrating and disappointing. I almost wish I could blame the EasyStart here, but unfortunately I can't since it worked well for you last year from either generator, and although it is possible to wire the EasyStart in such a way that it is ineffective, it's not possible for a wiring connection to fail or the EasyStart to fail in such a way that it will become ineffective. Instead, it would only stop working completely.

What to do? I consulted with the owner of Micro-Air earlier today and got a reply from him that I almost forwarded to you, but didn't. He said that once a Honda small engine carburetor gets fouled by gummed-up, stale fuel, it's pretty much trash. Thus the reason he gave up on such efforts and ended up purchasing new carburetors for all of his Honda power equipment, before he figured out a reliable winterizing technique. I'm not happy about sending you down that replacement path, but I'm not sure what else to suggest at this point. Please, give a thorough soak and recleaning a shot first. Try the spark plug as well. Both of those are relatively low-cost investments. If neither of these work, lets give a new carb a shot. I have a couple of Honda generator parts sources from which I purchased a small fortune's worth of parts during my 10-month odyssey into my particular failure analysis. I can share those with you if an when you get to that point.

[FC7039]

I too am having the same issues. Matteo directed me to this site. Before I go on I want to highlight Matteo’s responsiveness. I sent an email yesterday, Saturday, not expecting anything until normal business Monday. He replied same day with suggestions. I applied his suggestions and sent email Sunday. Again a reply. This is when he asked me to join this thread.



I bought an Easy Start as we have a Colorado trip planned and I don’t want to have to take two gens.



I hooked up the ES and did the 5 starts. When I tried the gen it failed. Email to Matteo and redid the wires. Today worked briefly but failed just the same. Email to Matteo, did I say how impressed I am with his support?



I ran a can of fuel injector cleaner straight. Then some $9 a quart pure gas from HD. It appears to have improved the situation but eventually the AC fails.



The question is can the ES work with a Honda 2000 that is “normally” maintained. I don’t mean running perfectly as most of us do our best to run it dry and drain the carb but are not small engine experts that keep them at near 100%.



I think my next step is to reset the ES and do the five start learning again.



Trip to CO in two weeks. Hope to leave one gen behind.



Gene

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by FC7039

I too am having the same issues. Matteo directed me to this site. Before I go on I want to highlight Matteo’s responsiveness. I sent an email yesterday, Saturday, not expecting anything until normal business Monday. He replied same day with suggestions. I applied his suggestions and sent email Sunday. Again a reply. This is when he asked me to join this thread.

I bought an Easy Start as we have a Colorado trip planned and I don’t want to have to take two gens.

I hooked up the ES and did the 5 starts. When I tried the gen it failed. Email to Matteo and redid the wires. Today worked briefly but failed just the same. Email to Matteo, did I say how impressed I am with his support?

I ran a can of fuel injector cleaer straight. Then some $9 a quart pure gas from HD. It appears to have improved the situation but eventually the AC fails.

The question is can the ES work with a Honda 2000 that is “normally” maintained. I don’t mean running perfectly as most of us do our best to run it dry and drain the carb but are not small engine experts that keep them at near 100%.

I think my next step is to reset the ES and do the five start learning again.

Trip to CO in two weeks. Hope to leave one gen behind.

Gene

Hi Gene. Thank you for the compliments and for your efforts to work out the issue. Today's been tough day. 3 people, including you and Pteck, and one other non-Airstream customer, are all having Honda EU2000i issues today! When it rains, it pours. But no worries as there is hope. I can say without a shadow of a doubt, and I think there are about 3000 people (1000+ of which are Air Stream customers) that will back me up when I say that: you can start and run your 13.5k or 15kBTU A/C with EasyStart, on a properly working Honda EU2000i, with ECO mode turned on. Period. It doesn't take any special treatment of the Honda other than routine maintenance and perhaps a winterization technique that removes all of the fuel and adds a couple squirts of WD40 (i.e. the prescribed and sworn to technique of the Micro-Air owner himself). The fact that suddenly a few people are all having trouble at the same time could cast doubt onto the whole thing, but all you have to do is read some of the other threads in this forum, and read the reviews on our website to know that it certainly does work.

So, with that being said, please don't give up. There is some underlying problem going on with your generator that we don't understand yet, but with some patience, persistence, and perseverance, anyone can overcome the challenges and restore full function to their Honda EU2000i without replacing it.

In your particular case, since there was certainly an intermittent wiring issue, there is a chance that it could have compromised the 5-start learning process. If you want to re-initiate this 5-start learning process, please follow the directions on pages 4 and 5 in the installation guide at this link. I want to caution you though to be careful when opening the cover on the EasyStart, and to make sure you do not dislodge or disturb the gasket that is tucked into a slot around the periphery of the cover. This gasket is obviously critical to the EasyStart's IP65 weatherproof rating, so you must make sure it is completely in place before replacing the cover. Otherwise, you may suffer a failure down the road. Thanks again.

[pteck]

To be clear to everyone, this is NOT an Easystart issue. This issue is solely with my older Honda eu2000i generators (second hand owner, likely ~10yrs old). I've metered my A/C running on house power, and the Easystart is doing a commendable job of softening the compressor start. Likewise, I've done multiple troubleshooting steps, and at this point, it is obvious my generators are not meeting spec and producing the required voltage under load.

Matteo/Micro-Air - Thank you again for going above and beyond. You're doing a herculean job here, fielding for Honda if anything. You're a huge asset to us here on the Airstream forums for your enthusiasm and expertise in the subject.

I wasn't able to do any more tests today, and I likely won't be able to for a couple more weeks. I head off on a long weekend trip midweek here. Thankfully, it's in the mountains with full hookups so I never intended to bring the genny anyhow.

Likewise this weekend, I'm fully convinced that my 13.5k Penguin is really not up to the task when it gets really hot outside. Though I already knew this was true for my larger 27FB trailer, in sunny socal.

I may go a completely different path going forward. Perhaps 15k Blizzard NXT A/C, a newer 2-2.4k genset with fuel shutoff option or propane conversion for longevity against ethanol fuel, and of course our favorite EasyStart to tie it together.

Any thoughts on an "optimal" 15k setup Matteo?

[Jekerrville]

Check the exhaust / spark suppressor is clear. They choke up after about 60 seconds and start to choke down the torque of the engine and down goes voltage/current to run the AC

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by Jekerrville

Check the exhaust / spark suppressor is clear. They choke up after about 60 seconds and start to choke down the torque of the engine and down goes voltage/current to run the AC

Thanks Jekerrville. This is a good suggestion since Pteck's generators are 10 years old. However, the one I worked on was also over 10 years old, and the spark suppressor wasn't fouled at all. Of course, it all depends on the gasoline and the amount of oil the engine may be burning. It's at a least worth an inspection. Pteck - In order to inspect the spark suppressor, you have to remove the end panel over the muffler and then the muffler itself (3 bolts) in order to gain access to the spark suppressor, which is a conical-shaped screen inserted into the muffler itself at the end of the exhaust manifold.

Originally Posted by pteck

Any thoughts on an "optimal" 15k setup Matteo?

Thank you again, Pteck, for your clarification to everyone and for your appreciation. Surprisingly, we don't have any experience at all with the Dometic NXT units yet. I've been waiting for a customer somewhere to finally install an EasyStart into an NXT so I can get the wiring diagram and get some photos to post on our website, but it would seem that the OEMs haven't latched onto that model at all yet. I have no idea why. Based on my own experience, I like the 15kBTU Dometic Penguin II the best since I think it has good performance and sound construction. If your Airstream has a ducted ceiling, then it'll be quieter as well. Otherwise, if you have the regular ceiling plenum that comes as an option for the A/C, the air noise is always about the same regardless of which manufacturer you pick. The 15k Coleman Mach 8s are also not bad, but we've heard too many reports from customers complaining about the noise from their axial condenser fans.

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by pteck

To be clear to everyone, this is NOT an Easystart issue. This issue is solely with my older Honda eu2000i generators (second hand owner, likely ~10yrs old). I've metered my A/C running on house power, and the Easystart is doing a commendable job of softening the compressor start. Likewise, I've done multiple troubleshooting steps, and at this point, it is obvious my generators are not meeting spec and producing the required voltage under load.

Matteo/Micro-Air - Thank you again for going above and beyond. You're doing a herculean job here, fielding for Honda if anything. You're a huge asset to us here on the Airstream forums for your enthusiasm and expertise in the subject.

I wasn't able to do any more tests today, and I likely won't be able to for a couple more weeks. I head off on a long weekend trip midweek here. Thankfully, it's in the mountains with full hookups so I never intended to bring the genny anyhow.

Likewise this weekend, I'm fully convinced that my 13.5k Penguin is really not up to the task when it gets really hot outside. Though I already knew this was true for my larger 27FB trailer, in sunny socal.

I may go a completely different path going forward. Perhaps 15k Blizzard NXT A/C, a newer 2-2.4k genset with fuel shutoff option or propane conversion for longevity against ethanol fuel, and of course our favorite EasyStart to tie it together.

Any thoughts on an "optimal" 15k setup Matteo?

I just swapped my 13.5 for a 15K and stuck with the penguin II 15K heat pump. It is a high improvement over the 13.5K. I also used the same Easy-Start. Just uninstalled and reinstalled using the Relearn Mode. I will have to say Micro Air is has great customer service. I called them to confirm my plan and they were VERY HELPFUL!

[turk123]

I would also like to chime in here about my recent experience. We were boondocking for the first time in Greenville SC (elevation 990') at a Cabela's. It was 95 degrees out and I could not wait to get out my Honda 2000i to cool the cabin off. It also would stop running after the initial startup of the AC.

My experience was different and maybe complete a new issue than the original poster. The compressor would come on for about 3-4 minutes and then the Honda would go into overload mode. My generator has worked successfully many times with this setup. I was confused, it was a Sunday night and I could not reach Mateo (no dig intended!). I ran thru the startup programming sequence letting the AC and Easy start set for the five minutes between each start. I did this 6 times with no luck. A decision had to be made. We were experiencing quite a heatwave!

I found a Honda dealer down the street and I bought a new 2200I. I did a few startups and it powered my trailer all through the night.

My old Honda has not been abused or even run that much. Last year I opted to replace the carburetor ($85) which is very easy to do and I added a kit that gives you a kill switch and allows you to run the carburetor dry. It has always run my AC.

I have not tried the older generator since I came back from our trip, but after reading this thread I am going to get it out again and try it.

Is there a reset to the programming on the easy start? I did not find it in all the reading I did on the internet that night. Could that have solved the problem? I'm not upset about buying the 2200I ( I was going to anyway and it gave me perfect justification with my wife!) and it is a more refined version of the original design. It has better access to changing the oil, it lets you run the carb dry and it has definitely more power. I have a use for the old generator at work for running power tools and lights in my non-electric shop. So not all is lost!

[crispyboy]

For those of you trying to clean a carburetor a good tool to have is an acetylene torch tip cleaner. These really help with the small jets.
I have tinkered with carburetors for many years but the newest carburetors (such as on my riding lawn mower) just can't be cleaned/fixed like the older carburetors. I tried every cleaner, solvent, ultra-sonic cleaners etc... and I couldn't beat it. I finally gave up an bought a new carburetor. I also haven't had much luck with fuel stabalizers. Running the engine dry is about the best thing you can do as a preventative.

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by turk123

Is there a reset to the programming on the easy start? I did not find it in all the reading I did on the internet that night. Could that have solved the problem?

Hi again Turk! No dig offense taken . Relearning the EasyStart would not have solved your problem. Shutdowns after 3 to 4 minutes are once again indications of output voltage collapse on the generator or excessive load being drawn by your trailer, none of which have anything to do with the EasyStart. The relearning instructions are on pages 5 and 6 of the installation manual, which is available in the "Manuals & Resources" tab of the EasyStart 364's webpage. Check it out at this link.

[pteck]

I like this discussion with all it's different directions. Just goes to show, It's the real world out there with all it's variables.

I have cleaned the spark arresters last year. They were just fine too.

I think Matteo is right that I need to give the carbs another once over. I did attend to all the fuel and air orifices but a carb tool like crispyboy posted would have been the ticket.

Back to the real world. I like having some margin of capacity in my setups. I will likely sell these two eu2000i's as they still hold value well.

Matteo, if money we're no object, which gen would u get? Easy choice would be eu2200i. But the Westinghouse igen2500 looks like a good opportunity. It only because I will install mine on the tongue between propane cover and AS... it's narrower format and all front controls seem better suited.

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by pteck

Matteo, if money we're no object, which gen would u get? Easy choice would be eu2200i. But the Westinghouse igen2500 looks like a good opportunity. It only because I will install mine on the tongue between propane cover and AS... it's narrower format and all front controls seem better suited.

Hi Pteck. In order to stay within the commercial vendor rules of Air Forums, I cannot put on my sales hat and recommend anything that we sell. Both are excellent choices and both have the same steady-state wattage outputs. The latter will save you 40% as compared to the former.

[gdanderson]

Matteo:

I have installed your Easy start product about one year ago. Although we have not used our Honda 2000i generator to run the 13,500 Dometic AC unit very much it has worked in the past. Last time it was used the outside temp was 98* with 95% humidity with inside temps of 95*. Air Stream was in full sun. Plugged in our Honda 2000i with Air Stream provided power cord (NO extension cord). Turned on AC unit and fan came on immediately, compressor started 15 seconds later. AC unit blowing cold air. After about 5-10 min. the compressor would kick out and fan would remain running. I would then shut off the AC unit, wait 5-10 min. and turn back on. Like originally the fan would come on then a short time later the compressor would again start. After 5-10 Min. the compressor would again kick off and the fan would continue to run. Generator runs and starts very easily. Runs well on ECO mode. Did not have generator on ECO mode during test. After coming home I tested the system once more. This time full shade, outside temp. at 85*, humidity at 85%. Plugged in the generator in the same fashion, started the generator and it ran the AC unit fine for the duration of the test (one hour).

Any idea where my problem could be?? Or where I should start to look. I don't think the fault lies with your Easy Start product as the AC unit starts fine.

Thank You

Greg Anderson
Wisconsin

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by gdanderson

...Any idea where my problem could be?? Or where I should start to look. I don't think the fault lies with your Easy Start product as the AC unit starts fine. Thank You.

Hello Greg. I think it would be best if you sent me a PM since there is a long list of questions and a long list of troubleshooting steps that myself or one of my colleagues will be able to better assist you with, via email.

[GCinSC2]

Greg,

Any chance you had other 120V appliances or loads running at the same time? Power management may be an item to review. Fridge on 120V ? converter kicked in? somebody plugged in a ????

Gary

[dmac]

I installed an easy start last year. Initially it would not run my a/c, same symptoms as others in this thread. It turned out that my RV plug adapter was corroded internally and had high resistance. It became warm when in use. Replacement with a new “dog bone” style adapter fixed the problem.

[kscherzi]

Last year I installed the Easy Start and bought a Yamaha 2000. What I've learned is that the generator can start the 15k AC but only while in a overload condition in temperatures where we really wanted AC. After 10 minutes the generator would kick off and the AC would stop. Not a satisfactory solution so I sold the Yamaha. It's obvious a more robust generator is needed to maintain operation of the AC in high temps and moderate altitude. Not sure what to do next. Don't want a heavy large machine for occasional use.

Today I used my Kill a Watt to monitor electrical consumption of the AC while at home on utility power. With everything else in the Airstream disabled (fridge, converter, etc) the penguin 2 15k heat pump needed about 1850 to almost 2000 continuous watts at 120 volts to run at 95 degrees, 1,000 altitude. I ran the AC for at least 45 minutes and these readings remained steady, but increasing as the outside temperature rose. Here in California it's a dry heat so not sure if that makes a difference. Here, temps can stay uncomfortably hot till one gets up to about 5,000/6,000 feet in the mountains.

[pteck]

Glad to know those of up that stepped up from a 13.5k unit had a solid performance gain.

Just a note for those recommending the Penguin II 15k unit. FYI, these are not true 15k units or perhaps just short of 15k performance. Hence if you go to Dometics site, they label these as "High Capacity" units distinct from the 13.5k model. So at least in Dometic's lineup, there certainly more performance to be had. The cheap easy, perhaps a bit ugly choice is the Dometic Brisk II unit that has some major architecture advantages from the newest Blizzard NXT. Then their top of the line, at a significant cost increase is that same NXT. For my larger 27FB, in the hot southwest, that might be the ticket. Which means I'll want "mo power" margin.

Back to the generator part... I'm a tinkerer and I know I can make my eu2000i's work for my 13.5k Penguin. But that's not really my goal as I want a higher output A/C still. While it sounds possible to make the eu2000 work for that too, I do want capacity margin such that I can count on the setup working going forward, against heat/altitude/wear/ethanol gas. So in this next year, I'll likely work towards that end goal. So I'll be looking hard at the eu2200i and iGen2500.

[FC7039]

Originally Posted by pteck

Glad to know those of up that stepped up from a 13.5k unit had a solid performance gain.

Just a note for those recommending the Penguin II 15k unit. FYI, these are not true 15k units or perhaps just short of 15k performance. Hence if you go to Dometics site, they label these as "High Capacity" units distinct from the 13.5k model. So at least in Dometic's lineup, there certainly more performance to be had. The cheap easy, perhaps a bit ugly choice is the Dometic Brisk II unit that has some major architecture advantages from the newest Blizzard NXT. Then their top of the line, at a significant cost increase is that same NXT. For my larger 27FB, in the hot southwest, that might be the ticket. Which means I'll want "mo power" margin.

Back to the generator part... I'm a tinkerer and I know I can make my eu2000i's work for my 13.5k Penguin. But that's not really my goal as I want a higher output A/C still. While it sounds possible to make the eu2000 work for that too, I do want capacity margin such that I can count on the setup working going forward, against heat/altitude/wear/ethanol gas. So in this next year, I'll likely work towards that end goal. So I'll be looking hard at the eu2200i and iGen2500.

I have a Penguin II HE. Commonly referred to as a 15k. As pointed out not a 15k. See label. 13.4. Mine is several years old

[FC7039]

Some good news. But not to get my hopes too high. It was cooler with clouds most of the day. I regapped the spark plug and I cleaned the carb jets. One jet you may miss is in the set screw that holds the main jet. After that the AC did start and stay running. It would barely run on eco mode pulsating. But on normal ran ok. Again not near as hot today. I am heading to the mountains. Does a generator lose power in altitude? I assume not near as hot here near Dallas. I will test more in the coming days in high heat.