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06-14-2010, 01:05 PM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Electric Service
I will be trying to set up electrical service for my trailer at the place I park it. This location is about 150' from the main breaker in the house. I would like to install underground wiring enclosed in PVC from the parking area to the house breaker box. The parking area would include a plug for my 31'1983 excella,and two lights overhead and plugs for my boat charger and a extra one for whatever. I have a air conditioner and the normal appliances in the trailer. What size breaker in the breaker box would I use? What size wire to run the distance from the house to insure proper current. Any input would be appreciated.
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Tom C.
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06-14-2010, 01:22 PM
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#2
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3 Rivet Member
1986 25' Sovereign
Plant City
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 228
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I have done this exact same thing. I ran a 220 50amp sub panel to the parking barn and then ran all of my power out of this to my 30amp rv plug as well as over head lights and convenience outlets. With 150' run you have to account for voltage drop. If you decide to to run 220, then you can use #4 wire. For this you will need two hots a neutral and a ground. (2 black, 1 white, 1 green)
If you decide to only run 110volts you will need to upsize the wire to #2 for the run. Keep in mind that you can derate the neutral to one size smaller #4 and the ground to #10.
You will need to use carlon (the gray pvc).
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06-14-2010, 01:33 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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ck21084 - I assume you ran copper wire? Regardless, I agree that voltage drop has to be accounted for.
Here's a voltage drop calculator which may help the effort.
Okiegent - be advised that the materials alone (with the price of metal) is going to make this an expensive project.
Tom
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06-14-2010, 01:40 PM
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#4
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3 Rivet Member
1986 25' Sovereign
Plant City
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW
ck21084 - I assume you ran copper wire? Regardless, I agree that voltage drop has to be accounted for.
Here's a voltage drop calculator which may help the effort.
Okiegent - be advised that the materials alone (with the price of metal) is going to make this an expensive project.
Tom
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Correct! Copper only!
I think #2 is around $1.30~$2.00 a foot. depending on how you go it could be $757.50 just for wire ( these prices are from my local lowes) an electric supply house is cheaper.
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06-14-2010, 02:03 PM
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#5
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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You may find that aluminum cable is cheaper, even though you have to go up a size.
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06-14-2010, 02:55 PM
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#6
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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I appreciate your quick reply. Your answers have got my mind to thinking here. We have a local supply house who has wire it would seem a little cheaper. Copper 2 hot and a neutral would run me around 250.00 for 150' Aluminum would be around 1.20 a foot x 3 The copper would come as a package so I would not have to buy three wires.I still do not know what I am doing here just yet. I will do some more home work. I will get back to you all.
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Tom C.
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06-14-2010, 03:12 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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We're creeping up on a little pucker factor here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiegent
... The copper would come as a package so I would not have to buy three wires..
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Be careful. Packaged wire gets tough to fish through a PVC pipe over long distances. Nothing sux worse than not being able to fish wire through pre-laid conduit.
Another option your may want to consider is buying "packaged" wire suitable for burying instead of fishing through electrical PVC.
Tom
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06-15-2010, 04:04 AM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW
Be careful. Packaged wire gets tough to fish through a PVC pipe over long distances. Nothing sux worse than not being able to fish wire through pre-laid conduit.
Another option your may want to consider is buying "packaged" wire suitable for burying instead of fishing through electrical PVC.
Tom
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Yes I had thought of that Tom. I wanted to try and save as much as possible on the project and romax #8 in the carbon PVC seemed reasonable at this point . I am thinking I will also do as CK recommended and run 110 and do a 30 amp service instead of a 50 amp.I will mull it over some more though. We are leaving Friday for ten days. When we get back I am sure I will have more questions. Thanks for all the information at this point. Have a great day all.
__________________
Tom C.
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06-15-2010, 07:01 AM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
1986 25' Sovereign
Plant City
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiegent
Yes I had thought of that Tom. I wanted to try and save as much as possible on the project and romax #8 in the carbon PVC seemed reasonable at this point . I am thinking I will also do as CK recommended and run 110 and do a 30 amp service instead of a 50 amp.I will mull it over some more though. We are leaving Friday for ten days. When we get back I am sure I will have more questions. Thanks for all the information at this point. Have a great day all.
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I know that money can be tight but, you mentioned that you wanted to run a boat charger, a few outlets and a couple of lights. These items could pull more than the service would allow with the RV plug at 30 amps you could burn the wire up, esp with #8 and a 30amp circuit.
As for direct burial cable, it has always been more expensive and much harder to service if there ever is an issue. Ask me how i know. (conduit would have kept the shovel from being blown out of my hand.)
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06-15-2010, 02:22 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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CK My thought was. That an air conditioner only requires around 30 amp's to get started. Once started and cycling it would probably pull 15 to 20 amp's. Now I know the boat charger want pull more than say 15 amp's, probably 3 amp's to be real. Then two lights and a convenience plug 20 amp's. I don't think I will ever have my air conditioner running and both outside lights on and the receptacles all utilized at the same time. So I figured that 30 amp service would work. #8 would be plenty for 30 amp service. Now like I said I am mulling all the great advice over though. I have not made a decision yet.
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Tom C.
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06-15-2010, 02:35 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln
, Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,779
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It might be much easier to lay all of your wire out and slide the PVC conduit over it and glue together, then roll it into the trench and do the short connections on each end to fit. I realize this is not the pro method but it works for the DIY types like me that have little experience pulling cables in conduit. 150 feet, it's only 6 pieces of 20 foot conduit.
Never short change yourself on the wire size - always go bigger. The tools and equipment you burn up over the years will cost alot more than the pennies difference in cable costs. Think of it this way, if you do it yourself - you are already saving the cost of an electrician - that's alot of savings verses the cost of materials alone.
Aluminum wire requires special connectors and if your house power box is not rated for aluminum wire you cannot use it. Go copper and save yourself the headache.
__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ The family has grown. 2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
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06-15-2010, 04:51 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,942
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I don't want to beat a dead horse but go bigger. When you spend a few bucks for a job like this you only want to do it once. What you want to run today, battery charger and a few lights may change in the future if you get new, bigger or more toys.
I agree with ck21084 go for 50 amp 220. You never know what you might need in the future. A simple weld repair will make it worthwhile. You may not have a welder but needing a job done gets easier if you rent a welder or if a friend brings his welder or other tools over. A compressor to inflate a flat tire, it all takes power.
If you run direct burial cable and bury it 24" I hope you never need to dig that deep that you would hit it with a shovel. Also take pictures and make a sketch of where your wire is buried in case you do have to work around it in the future. Who knows you may sell the place some day and the buyer will have a big Moho with a 50 amp service and that plug will make the sale.
Good luck, Dan
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06-15-2010, 09:31 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill
, Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,014
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If you are running that far, I would slide the conduit over the wire one stick at a time, then just be carefull not to over do it with the glue. Once all the pipe is assembled , then just slide it in the trench. I'm not sure but I don't think your trailer requires 220 volts. Make sure you know the requirement and that you have met it before turning on the power. If it is wrong you will probably let the smoke out of some stuff. Since electrical devices work on smoke, if the smoke is released, they won't work any more. LOL.
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06-16-2010, 05:54 AM
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#14
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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It is great to hear so many genuine responses to the post. That was what I was needing and looking for. I wanted to be sure that the job was done right and I would have no trouble. All of the post have been on target in my thinking. As well as enlightening me on what size of wire and service to run. All of this has been very helpful. Thanks to all of you for your advice. I will keep you posted when I start the project.
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Tom C.
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06-16-2010, 07:09 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,060
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I've found direct burial cable cheaper than normal cable more than once - so I have 175' of underground feeder 6-3 armored by 1-1/2" conduit. I also laid a bare copper solid 2AWG ground in the trench to better keep nearby lightning strikes from damaging the insulation. Up here in Minnesota if the ground heave from 4 months of being frozen doesn't get the UF lines lightning surges will...
Also laid in trench was an eight conductor lawn sprinkler control low-voltage cable to use for alarm and telephone...
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The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
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06-16-2010, 07:20 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2002 25' Safari
1977 20' Argosy 20
northern valley
, new jersey
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 532
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Wiring Simplified
there's a small paperback book that we've used in it's various updated editions for the last 35+ years. it's called "Wiring Simplified" by Richter & Schwan.
the current edition is http://www.electricwiring.com/wiring.html
you can usually find a copy hanging in the electrical dept of a Lowes or HD, priced at < $10.
it's a handy tool and reference for designing or spec'ing a project like this the right way the first time.
besides sizing your wire or conductors, and conduit, the book will also help you with things like how many bends you're allowed in your conduit before a pull box is required, and limits on the length of conduit before you need a pull box, and burial depth.
another handy item for your project might be a bottle of "pulling lubricant". it's amazingly helpful stuff, even when you're pulling short runs.
IDEAL INDUSTRIES, INC. - ClearGlide™ Wire Pulling Lubricant
if you were going to hand dig that 150' trench, think about renting a machine or hiring your local sprinkler guy to trench for you, instead.
a 150' x 24" trench with a machine will be reasonably straight with a consistent depth, and depending on the soil conditions, take only about an hour to complete.
"Direct Burial Warning Tape" placed into your trench, 6-12" below the surface will also help prevent future problems from an errant shovel....
lastly, you might also consider burying telephone & coax cables alongside your conduit, or, placing a second, empty conduit for future use.
work safely, and good luck with your project!
best,
__________________
Joseph & Gabrielle
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci.
WBCCI 2087 - AIR 3144 - TAC-NJ2
https://defendwally.org/
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06-16-2010, 08:19 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie
If you are running that far, I would slide the conduit over the wire one stick at a time, then just be carefull not to over do it with the glue. Once all the pipe is assembled , then just slide it in the trench. I'm not sure but I don't think your trailer requires 220 volts. Make sure you know the requirement and that you have met it before turning on the power. If it is wrong you will probably let the smoke out of some stuff. Since electrical devices work on smoke, if the smoke is released, they won't work any more. LOL.
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Right -- the trailer is 110V all the way. The most common mentioned draw for the A/C compressor at startup is in the 22-23 amp range. Allow for use of the microwave or a hair dryer to coincide with that. Member Chuck has used a 20A circuit for years without damaging his A/C but is very careful to avoid use of other high draw appliances when the it is running.
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06-16-2010, 10:41 AM
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#18
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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In general direct burial is cheaper than conduit and is fine unless you're going under a driveway (in which case just that part of the cable needs conduit), have to cross sharp rocks that you can't remove or cover with sand, anticipate that you'll be digging right next to the cable often in the future (digging next to direct buried wire requires somewhat more care), or think that you might pull different wires through the conduit for some reason.
If you are going to run a 30 amp setup then you can try to find 8-2 UF with ground, although it's something of an odd size.
If you do run in conduit I would use 1.25" conduit to make the pull easier. Yes the charts say that 3/4" will work but with that distance you'll have trouble pulling the wires.
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