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flyingcloud · 09-22-2011, 05:28 PM

Hi all -

We just moved into our 2012 Flying Cloud and it comes with some very cool/blue LED lights. I'm wondering if anyone has tried color correcting these with lighting gels? I called Airstream about warmer replacement LEDs and they basically said I'd have to replace the spot fixture, and gave me the number to a vendor for the plastic fixtures. So for now I figure gels might be the best way to go.

I've already tried one color and the result was too orange. I just ordered one that's more pink and if it works I'll post a link to the exact gel I ordered.

Has any one out there get rid of the cool surgical lighting that comes in the newer Flying Cloud and Internationals?

Thanks!
~Leigh

Silver Otter · 09-22-2011, 05:44 PM

If you're going to use theatrical gels I think the nice one is called "Bastard Amber" if memory serves after all these years.

flyingcloud · 09-22-2011, 05:50 PM

I may order that as well - found it on Amazon. I just ordered Marlene:

http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/products/finder/act:colourdetails/colourRef:C4D91D6238D538

But yours might be nicer.

Skater · 09-22-2011, 07:43 PM

I don't think that will work very well. Most LEDs emit just one wavelength of light (well, slightly more than that, but the point is that it's a narrow band), compared to incandescents, which have a much wider spectrum. My understanding is gels work by filtering out unwanted colors from the fuller-spectrum light bulb. LEDs won't have the color in the output you want, so the gel is just going to make it dimmer.

This is why you should put red LEDs behind a red lens and amber LEDs behind amber lenses. Similarly, I have a pinball machine that I converted to LEDs, and sure enough, the "cool white" and "warm white" LEDs just do not illuminate the colored lights on the playfield very well - with a few exceptions, you pretty much have to match the LED to the color you want.

Someone who really knows what they're talking about can jump in here, but I think you want to get confirmation or refutation of what I'm thinking before you do too much. I suspect you need to find warm white LEDs instead.

HHaase · 09-22-2011, 08:20 PM

Well... ANY led is replaceable, just a matter of how much you have to dig

Unless they're surface mount pieces, it shouldn't be too hard. SMD stuff is much more tricky.

I'm another pinball addict over here, but also do a fair amount of circuit board work too. If you can shoot a couple photos of the fixture, particularly how the LED is mounted, I might be able to get you some better recommendations. You may be able to deal with it with a filter, but it all depends on the intensity and colors of the light. You may be better off replacing the LED itself.

-Hans

Friday · 09-22-2011, 09:42 PM

I'm not sure why the whole fixture would need to be replaced... perhaps in the new ones the LEDs are welded right in? In my '06, I replaced all the halogen bulbs with the 'cool white' LEDs. There are 'warm white' which have a more yellow tone to them.

USA sourced LEDs are around $15 per light. You can get them from HK for around $2 each.

brusby · 09-22-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skater

Most LEDs emit just one wavelength of light (well, slightly more than that, but the point is that it's a narrow band), compared to incandescents, which have a much wider spectrum.

I think you're right about some individual LEDs, but the makers of white or near white (warm white?) LEDs most likely are using an array of different colors to get the white balance. While white light often contains all colors of the spectrum, I'm pretty sure any white light has to contain a minimum of 3 colors or wavelengths like red, green and blue or cyan, magenta and yellow.

I bet your pinball machine doesn't light up the same because the white LED you're using is using 3 narrow band LEDs like RGB and is missing some of the other colors that white light emitted by incandescents and fluorescents often contains.

Bruce

SeeMore · 09-22-2011, 11:05 PM

In any LED behind a lens application, choose a matching color to get maximum light because the lens will filter out the other spectrums. For example, use a red LED behind a red lens for taillights. A white lens will not filter out the underlying colors. A white LED is a mixture so it loses intensity filtered through a colored lens.

HHaase · 09-23-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brusby

I think you're right about some individual LEDs, but the makers of white or near white (warm white?) LEDs most likely are using an array of different colors to get the white balance. While white light often contains all colors of the spectrum, I'm pretty sure any white light has to contain a minimum of 3 colors or wavelengths like red, green and blue or cyan, magenta and yellow.

I bet your pinball machine doesn't light up the same because the white LED you're using is using 3 narrow band LEDs like RGB and is missing some of the other colors that white light emitted by incandescents and fluorescents often contains.

Bruce

All depends on how they are doing it. But there are a number of single diode units that cover white these days both in thru-hole and SMD styles. These usually are blue LED's with added phosphor, the more phosphor they add is the more "warm" the color is. On these, you can see the phosphor by the yellow coating on the SMD pieces, on the thru-hole one it's much harder to see, but there is a dot of yellow around the cathode (or is it the anode, I always get them mixed up on LED's).

-Hans

http://www.siegecraft.us/pinball/ima...ze1555guts.JPG
http://www.siegecraft.us/pinball/images/ctbrights.JPG

Erik Olson · 09-23-2011, 09:46 AM

The spots, unless they have a lens you can put the gel behind, won't be easy to use the gel with. Better in a fixture with a cover of some kind that will keep it in place. Even then, you're going to see the edges of the gel goods through the shade unless you trim it perfectly or the edges are obscured by the fixture itself.

If Airstream is furnishing daylight or "cool white" LEDs, you likely have a lower CRI emitter (<82) at a color temperature of 6000K or so. This is fine during the day as it mimics the color of the light outside.

To correct for daylight, you wouldn't use any of the gel prescribed above. You would want a 1/2 CTO or perhaps 3/4 CTO gel - color transmission, orange. This is what movies use to bring daylight fixtures down to tungsten / incandescent 3200K color temperature.

Barbizon (with brick-mortar shops in / near many markets) sells these @ $6 - $7 per 20" x 24" sheet for Rosco or LEE.

tpi · 09-23-2011, 10:14 AM

One thing I would do, regardless of outcome is call Airstream and ask if there are any warm white (2700-3000K) LEDs available for the fixtures. Somehow send a signal that you're not happy with the color temp of the factory lamps.

Color temp is a matter of preference and many people prefer warm white for living spaces. I personally don't feel the interior design of these trailers look best with 5-6000K lamps.

I'd address the issue thru the LED and not a filter. I hope you can find an LED which has the color temp you like and can be somehow installed in the fixture.

Erik Olson · 09-23-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi

One thing I would do, regardless of outcome is call Airstream and ask if there are any warm white (2700-3000K) LEDs available for the fixtures. Somehow send a signal that you're not happy with the color temp of the factory lamps.

Color temp is a matter of preference and many people prefer warm white for living spaces. I personally don't feel the interior design of these trailers look best with 5-6000K lamps.

I'd address the issue thru the LED and not a filter. I hope you can find an LED which has the color temp you like.

I concur! LED4RV sells good direct replacement lamps in WW that I am happy with. LED does tend, even in professional-grade fixtures, to spike green, regardless of the stated color temperature. If you want to remove green spike, you add 1/8 or 1/4 minus green gel, fwiw!

Gel Numbers | TRANSMISSION (% of light that gets through) | Color Shift:

Rosco 3410 or LEE 223 1/8 CTO | 85% | (5500K to 4900K)
Rosco 3409 or LEE 206 1/4 CTO | 79% | (5500K to ~4500K)*
Rosco 3408 or LEE 205 1/2 CTO | 70% | (5500K to 3800K)
Rosco 3411 or LEE 285 3/5 CTO | 61% | (5500K to ~3600K)

Rosco 3318 or LEE 279 1/8 Minus Green | 86.5% (Reduce LED Green Spike 1/8th value)
Rosco 3314 or LEE 249 1/4 Minus Green | 82% (Reduce or Eliminate LED Green Spike)

tpi · 09-23-2011, 10:37 AM

Yes my 3000K 1141 replacements have a green spike which is noticeable in photos when an incandescent lamp is also visible in the pic.

Dan@LED4RV · 09-30-2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi

One thing I would do, regardless of outcome is call Airstream and ask if there are any warm white (2700-3000K) LEDs available for the fixtures. Somehow send a signal that you're not happy with the color temp of the factory lamps.

Color temp is a matter of preference and many people prefer warm white for living spaces. I personally don't feel the interior design of these trailers look best with 5-6000K lamps.

I'd address the issue thru the LED and not a filter. I hope you can find an LED which has the color temp you like and can be somehow installed in the fixture.

Keeping with this line of thought, the best I have found, where folks don't have to spend an arm and a leg is get AS # 511695 ( used in 2003-10) and use a 9 or 12 warm white chip.

flyingcloud · 09-30-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi

One thing I would do, regardless of outcome is call Airstream and ask if there are any warm white (2700-3000K) LEDs available for the fixtures. Somehow send a signal that you're not happy with the color temp of the factory lamps.

That was the first thing we did! Still waiting on my latest order to arrive - I'll let you all know if it worked, or not - then I'll have to try some of these suggestions. Thanks everyone. For now, our trailer is called "The Blue Light Special."

Eric H · 09-30-2011, 02:30 PM

Hi there,
I light for film and TV and we use gels all the time to change the color of lights.
You will want to use CTO (Color Temperature Orange) or something similar. "Straw" is quite nice too.

If you pick up one of these: Lee Swatch Book - Get One Free With Purchase - Filmtools
You can test all sorts of gels (just cover the others with tape). You will most likely use a 1/4 straw or CTO or maybe 1/2, just remember that this will cut your light transmission rate.

I would also suggest sandwiching in some "minus green gel" (it will be slightly red) maybe 1/8 Minus Green as the LEDs have a bit of green in them.

I know LEDs don't run very hot, but if the gels are placed right up against them the heat (even the little bit) will eventually take the colors out of the gels and you will need to replace them.

Lighting Gel Sheets - Filmtools

Hope this helps.
Eric

Eric H · 09-30-2011, 02:35 PM

Ha! just read that the other Erik posted the same thing!!

flyingcloud · 09-30-2011, 02:41 PM

Thanks Eric (and Erik) - I think a swatchbook is just what I need, plus some minus green.

flyingcloud · 10-08-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingcloud

I just ordered one that's more pink and if it works I'll post a link to the exact gel I ordered.

It worked! I wrote a post on my blog about it: http://www.aluminarium.com/airstream/airstream-led-color

Eric H · 10-09-2011, 08:39 AM

Glad to see it worked! The pink spike is giving ya that minus green effect in one gel so that's a great find.
In the restoration of my 74 Safari I was planning on using warm LEDs strips, but have recently thought about side light fiber optics with LED generators... Perhaps that's my next thread:-)
Cheers.