Shower will not shut off

[ghaag]

We are on the road, and have a situation with the shower where it will not turn off. You can turn the shower handle all the way to the off position but there is still significant water flow out of the shower head. When I switch the water flow off at the showerhead, I can tell there is some water flow/leaking taking place from behind the shower panel where the shower handle is. Could this possibly be a bad cartridge or would it be something else? Trying to see if this can be fixed or if there is a short-term fix while we are on the road for the next 8 days.
Thanks in advance,
Greg

[GCinSC2]

Greg,

Is this first use since removing from storage? Possible freeze damage from water in shower valve body.

Big guess at best.

[rmkrum]

Possibly dirt or damaged cartridge.
If it is a Moen faucet, you need a screwdriver and a pair of pliers to pull the cartridge out of the valve.
Turn off the shore water supply and release pressure. Be sure the pump is turned off.

Remove the center cap if the handle with fingernails or a dull knife to pry it loose around the edge. This should show you the screw that holds the knob on. Remove screw and handle, set aside in a safe place.

There should be a copper or brass-colored U-shaped retainer that holds the cartridge in place under the knob. There is a wider tab and two skinny ‘forks’ sticking out of the valve body. Use pliers or a small screwdriver on the tab and slide the fork out.

Now the fun part. The cartridge is sometimes hard to pull out. Use the pliers to firmly pull on the stem of the cartridge (had the screw in it) using the flat sides as a grip. Hold the valve still with your other hand so you do not rip it loose from the piping.

Take the cartridge to the nearest big box home improvement store, hardware store, or plumbing supply joint. Obtain a new cartridge. It should be identical in the gasket layout, but may be plastic instead of stainless steel or brass originally.

The new part should come with a bit of silicon grease. If not, get some plumbers silicon grease. Apply the grease per the install directions. In a light film over the rubber parts Thoroughly clean the valve body with a lintless cloth so there is no remaining junk or minerals in there.

Put the cartridge in, make sure it is all the way in so the U-shaped retainer goes all the way in. Reinstall the knob and verify the hot side is to the left. If not, remove the knob, turn the valve stem 180 degrees with the pliers, and re-install the knob.

[ghaag]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Possibly dirt or damaged cartridge.
If it is a Moen faucet, you need a screwdriver and a pair of pliers to pull the cartridge out of the valve.
Turn off the shore water supply and release pressure. Be sure the pump is turned off.

Remove the center cap if the handle with fingernails or a dull knife to pry it loose around the edge. This should show you the screw that holds the knob on. Remove screw and handle, set aside in a safe place.

There should be a copper or brass-colored U-shaped retainer that holds the cartridge in place under the knob. There is a wider tab and two skinny ‘forks’ sticking out of the valve body. Use pliers or a small screwdriver on the tab and slide the fork out.

Now the fun part. The cartridge is sometimes hard to pull out. Use the pliers to firmly pull on the stem of the cartridge (had the screw in it) using the flat sides as a grip. Hold the valve still with your other hand so you do not rip it loose from the piping.

Take the cartridge to the nearest big box home improvement store, hardware store, or plumbing supply joint. Obtain a new cartridge. It should be identical in the gasket layout, but may be plastic instead of stainless steel or brass originally.

The new part should come with a bit of silicon grease. If not, get some plumbers silicon grease. Apply the grease per the install directions. In a light film over the rubber parts Thoroughly clean the valve body with a lintless cloth so there is no remaining junk or minerals in there.

Put the cartridge in, make sure it is all the way in so the U-shaped retainer goes all the way in. Reinstall the knob and verify the hot side is to the left. If not, remove the knob, turn the valve stem 180 degrees with the pliers, and re-install the knob.

Thank you so much for the detailed instructions!

[GCinSC2]

What explains water leak behind shower panel?

[ghaag]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

What explains water leak behind shower panel?

I am not sure, I was hoping it might somehow be related to the cartridge but concerned replacing the cartridge is not going to resolve that.

[GCinSC2]

Any comment on the freeze damage question I posed?

Not sure if water leaking around the handle can get behind the panel.

[ghaag]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Any comment on the freeze damage question I posed?

Not sure if water leaking around the handle can get behind the panel.

I don’t think that is likely, I keep it in climate controlled storage and it did not have an opportunity this past winter freeze. Also we have been on it several times already this year and did not have a problem.

[GCinSC2]

That’s hopeful news.

[rmkrum]

The leak when the shower head is shut off is probably a loose connection between the valve and shower head. It can be a mother bear to get your hands in thereto tighten the threaded fitting, assuming there is one...

[GCinSC2]

Find the problem?

That’s part of how us armchair fixers learn.

[ghaag]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Find the problem?

That’s part of how us armchair fixers learn.

Yes, thanks for the reminder! I replace the cylinder and it resolved all the issues.

[GCinSC2]

That great but puzzling how the cartridge failing created an exterior leak.

[ghaag]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

That great but puzzling how the cartridge failing created an exterior leak.

Actually an interior leak (water spraying) against shower back panel or something around cartridge. Pleasantly surprised the cartridge resolved both issues.

[rmkrum]

Moen cartridges have at least 3-4 O-ring seals and other rubber parts to make them work. Some of them are made of plastic nowadays, instead of the quality stainless steel and brass that the older ones were made of.

I imagine one of the more critical ones that seals the cartridge into the housing or the stem into the cartridge could spray water into the housing and make a leak happen if it was damaged or torn.

I must admit the plastic ones rarely jam in the housing, and do seem to be durable.