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purman · 09-05-2008, 08:57 AM

Ok, I tried a search to no avail.. This must have been covered somewhere.. If you know of the tread let me know.

I am putting a grey tank in my 68', what I thought was to run a line from the grey tank with a pump to the toilet.. I hate using fresh water to flush with, seems such a waste... I would have a switch for the pump and a shut of for the fresh water. has this been done.... I think I would have to be careful of contaminating the fresh water, this is my only concern.. Don't really want to put in a back flow valve as it won't drain in the winter.. I could run 2 separate lines? Pressure might stop the water from going back? maybe not....

Any ideas...

cameront120 · 09-05-2008, 09:08 AM

I'm not sure how they are plumbed, but we are starting to see this application more and more in new home construction. One thing that you might want to consider is a filter of some sort between the grey tank and toilet. I only suggest this, because I think that the food scraps that can get drained from the kitchen sink, as well as hair from the bathroom sink, might be too coarse for some of the workings of the toilet rinse system and gum it up.

**azflycaster** · 09-05-2008, 09:23 AM

There are many different shades of grey water. Grey water also comes with a variety of odors depending on what is in the tank and how long it has been there. It would not be the most inviting thing sitting in the open inside your trailer. I would estimate the amount of fresh water that we put into the black tank to be around a gallon a day (2 people). I would just carry some extra water.

purman · 09-05-2008, 09:41 AM

yes, filter is a must, We do a lot of dry camping and i hate to waste my fresh water and more is not always available...

HowieE · 09-05-2008, 10:04 AM

In case you have not experienced it yet but gray water often smells worst than black water. Any filter you use will have to address odor more than any thing else.

If you do install a pump consider installing at least one and maybe 2 small pressure tank, Shure makes one about the size of a softball, between the pump and the toilet. This will reduce short cycling of the pump due to the small draw.

Inland RV Center, In · 09-05-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purman

Ok, I tried a search to no avail.. This must have been covered somewhere.. If you know of the tread let me know.

I am putting a grey tank in my 68', what I thought was to run a line from the grey tank with a pump to the toilet.. I hate using fresh water to flush with, seems such a waste... I would have a switch for the pump and a shut of for the fresh water. has this been done.... I think I would have to be careful of contaminating the fresh water, this is my only concern.. Don't really want to put in a back flow valve as it won't drain in the winter.. I could run 2 separate lines? Pressure might stop the water from going back? maybe not....

Any ideas...

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a "gray water bacteria check valve".

Keep in mind, bacteria travels in every direction. Whatever plumbing or hoses you may use to transfer the gray water to the black water tank, it will be loaded with bacteria.

That bacteria will be in every source you have, that provides gray water.

Not a good idea.

Super health hazard.

Andy

ticki2 · 09-05-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purman

Ok, I tried a search to no avail.. This must have been covered somewhere.. If you know of the tread let me know.

I am putting a grey tank in my 68', what I thought was to run a line from the grey tank with a pump to the toilet.. I hate using fresh water to flush with, seems such a waste... I would have a switch for the pump and a shut of for the fresh water. has this been done.... I think I would have to be careful of contaminating the fresh water, this is my only concern.. Don't really want to put in a back flow valve as it won't drain in the winter.. I could run 2 separate lines? Pressure might stop the water from going back? maybe not....

Any ideas...

Connecting a pressurized gray water line to the fresh water line is a no-no . You could , if something goes wrong , fill your fresh water line with gray water. You would need some sort of air break between the two.

purman · 09-05-2008, 11:23 AM

Sounding like this is a bad Idea... Thats why I asked the question.....

Guess I just bring an extra 5 gal or so of fresh water....

Silvertwinkie · 09-05-2008, 11:26 AM

Seems like a lot of engineering when in most campgrounds there are some sort of facilities be it rustic or modern.

In addition, most campgrounds have water of some sort, be it a hand pump or more modern hookups. I would far rather have a gallon or two jug in the head to use to flush than re-engineer my Airstream.

I would shy away from using the grey tank as has been pointed out, it's no picnic either for the water savings.

eubank · 09-05-2008, 11:39 AM

Humm. I suspect that I could rig something similar with our vintage rig,which has only a black tank. Only a couple of things we're going to have to remember to pack: A couple of really tight-fitting clothes pins for our noses.

Lynn

richinny · 09-05-2008, 12:01 PM

your idea might work if the toilet was not fed from the potable water in any way. i'd think that if you filtered the grey tank water and pumped it to the toilet, you might have a setup that would work.

hooking the two systems together would a very bad thing and probably would not meet codes. even a lawn sprinkler system requires a check valve.

purman · 09-05-2008, 12:08 PM

Codes?????? We don't even have building codes where i live... Scares me, seen builders do some really dumb things..

I think I will just pass on the idea....

cameront120 · 09-05-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purman

Codes?????? We don't even have building codes where i live...

If you don't have a local Code, you'd be governed by the latest edition of the National Building Code, which outlines the minimum standards for construction.

Excella CM · 09-05-2008, 12:29 PM

The idea is OK, but the execution plan stinks (literally). As Andy and others have pointed out, you absolutely don't want your waste and fresh water systems comingled. If you really want to do this, use a pick-up that floats in the grey tank to avoid the solids and run it to a separate faucet that you can fill a bucket from in the bathroom and use that to flush the toilet. Probably penny wise and pound foolish all in all.

purman · 09-05-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cameront120

If you don't have a local Code, you'd be governed by the latest edition of the National Building Code, which outlines the minimum standards for construction.

Not true here. Each county or city has to adopt which codes they use national or the older ones which aren't use much.. The state requires plumbing and electrical inspections but. but Delta county has no building codes some of the towns do but if you build in the county you can do whatever you want..... like i said SCARY>>.. I seen foundations walls out of 2x6 on a footer with dirt piled up against them...

Didn't know there were codes for trailers,, Who inspects them???

2airishuman · 09-05-2008, 01:56 PM

the simplest approach to this is to bring an enclosed container of wash water back inside to 'flush' the toilet,

or just catch the sink water before it hits the drains.

a 6 gallon plastic gerrycan shaped jug works fine outside and a kitchen sink pail inside.

and disconnect the fresh water (or turn off the inline valve) to the head.

one could run 2 separate lines and 2 pumps, but the wash water pump should be outside the trailer.

wash water is sometimes nastier and more complicated than crap-tank water.

we've covered this issue in MANY threads on the topic and there was a good piece in asLIFE many quarters ago on the topic.

i see from your other post that u think u are using 'biodegradable' stuff in the wash tank (whatever that is)...

but the organic matter is different in wash water (more acidic, more fats, less digested and so on) even though it is more diluted.

so it would be USEFUL to add a biologic tank additive to the wash side too for fats and proteins....

enzyme or bacteria based is best for this, but wash water should be handled carefully at all times.

if you don't do this the biologic positives of the BLACK TANK will be altered negatively and the odors ENHANCED....

the toilet can be plumbed to using a 'recirculating' design, these systems are growing in popularity, with the hugger crowd.

when boondocking ALL my sink water is captured and used to flush the head, so almost NO fresh is used, it's easy to do this.

cheers
2air'

HowieE · 09-05-2008, 02:45 PM

I failed to pick up on your original drawing that you were relying on a shut off valve to isolate the 2 water systems. Code or no code this can not be done just from a Good Sense consideration.

If you end up designing a system that has 2 water sources there has to be an AIR GAP between them. This could be done using the small tank idea mentioned by 2air. You could have a gravity tank sealed and feed by the pump off the gray water. For those time when you have city water you would have to fill the tank via a valve above the tank and clearly separated by an air gap.

Now this is just a design idea and I am sure not practical considering the amount of money and rework required to make it work.

purman · 09-05-2008, 04:06 PM

OK, I opened a can of worms here.. I was trying to keep it simple and save fresh water... Good thing I asked..... I'm just gonna leave it alone and use fresh water Getting to complicated and I don't want to get sick...

And I don't won't to have other containers to pour down and drag around..

Thanks guys, and gals, for the input...

SteSpot · 09-05-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purman

Not true here. Each county or city has to adopt which codes they use national or the older ones which aren't use much.. The state requires plumbing and electrical inspections but. but Delta county has no building codes some of the towns do but if you build in the county you can do whatever you want..... like i said SCARY>>.. I seen foundations walls out of 2x6 on a footer with dirt piled up against them...

Didn't know there were codes for trailers,, Who inspects them???

Yes, there are codes for tailers. I think it is RVIA (RVIA.org | Home

This is frequently on campgrounds list of Rules:

"Vehicles must be self-contained and carry the RV industries approval registry number and manufacture’s date."

On our Airstream, there is a metal tag located near the door that has this certification. I think they are the same people that approve appliances suitable for RV use so that you don't use house appliances in your RV.

NFPA 1192, NEC and ANSI 12V Standards Now Available

The 2008 editions of the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) 1192 Standard for Recreational Vehicles, the ANSI 12V Standard for Low Voltage Systems in Conversion and Recreational Vehicles and the National Electric Code (NEC), are now available. The new standards will become effective May 1 with enforcement beginning September 1, 2008. Visit the RVIA Store to order.

ticki2 · 09-05-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purman

OK, I opened a can of worms here.. I was trying to keep it simple and save fresh water... Good thing I asked..... I'm just gonna leave it alone and use fresh water Getting to complicated and I don't want to get sick...

And I don't won't to have other containers to pour down and drag around..

Thanks guys, and gals, for the input...

You see , threads here sometimes take on a life of their own . you may quit but the thread keeps going and going... sometimes for years. Never be afraid to mention an idea , even if it doesn't pan out , sometimes they do .