Extra hose on toilet

[Safari Tim]

OK Guys,

Still trying to figure out this 1960 Ambassador.

It still has the original toilet which has to go.

I was looking it over and noticed it has the water line near the top on the back and a second hose running into the wall cavity.

All I can think of is that is a vent to the roof. If so, that kinda messes up the direct replacement of a new toilet. The new toilets don't have this hose connection.

I assume I would need it if it is a vent. So are we talking about adding a vent opening into the tank top and plumbing the line back in?

Just wondering....

[scottanlily]

Hello Safari Tim ,

I have the water line to the toilet goes down along the floor ,curbside commode, there is a small pipe pointing out of the wall behind the toilet ,looks
like a pipe ,vent or ? but I installed a sealand travler lite porcelin toilet.
What a great item ,Very well made and I believe it is accepltable for
replacing a broken /missing or unusable original one. I see no way to hook
any thing to the pipe out of the wall though ,so I am not sure of how that,
functions.What the function is could be answered by someone who has
the original toilet in their airstream of this vintage ,mine trdwnd is a 60
so should be like yours.

Scott

[scottanlily]

OH ,I see you said you have the original ,howd i miss that? Well we did not
hook up the wall pipe ,where too anyway? The sealand does not have any type of connection .That being said we have not had any venting issues
if you know what I mean .So does the old toilet vent out thru the wall?
above the black tank ? hmmm. Must be .We had an old galaxy aqua magic
that went to the dumpster PDQ when the traler made it home and upon
starting the restoration process.We do use the commode conservativly
however.

Scott

[flyfshr]

Tim ~

I find this interesting. My original didn't have but one connection and that was the fresh water line. No vent. When I installed a toilet from a '62 Safari, I actually didn't hook it up to fresh water. Instead, I installed a kitchen sink sprayer that comes out behind the toilet against the wall. This way, you can use as little or as much of the water you need really conserving it. Can you send pix before you remove anything or is it too late to show the set up?

Brad
FF

[markdoane]

Tim,

My set-up was the same as yours. The tube (1" copper fittings and rubber hose) travels inside the wall and forward about 3 feet, then an elbow and straight up the wall, to the roof vent.

From the appearance, the vent was stuck in with caulking compound at the airstream factory, not by the toilet manufacturer. It has a cobbled together look. It is original to the trailer.

In later models, the vent is a vertical pipe near the corner of the vanity. Makes a nice handrail.

On mine, the elbow in the wall had come loose and was leaking a small amount of rainwater between the wall panels.

I think the best solution is to add a vent in the corner of the blackwater tank.

You should put in as large a vent as possible. Oxygen helps keep the bacteria in the tank from going anaerobic. It smells better if they have a little air to breathe.

[Safari Tim]

Originally Posted by Scott

Well we did not
hook up the wall pipe ,where too anyway? The sealand does not have any type of connection .That being said we have not had any venting issues

Yep, I think that was/is a vent pipe connection. On my '60 there is only one vent pipe coming out of the roof. And its right in the area of the toilet.

I do find it odd, there does not seem to be a vent for the sink plumbing.

Originally Posted by flyfshr

I find this interesting. My original didn't have but one connection and that was the fresh water line. No vent.

You may have lucked out here then. Do you have a vent stack on the roof somewhere. I bet you have a vent connection on the tank in a cabinet or something. I have not pulled to toilet out yet, so I'll try to get a photo up later this evening.

Originally Posted by markdoane

I think the best solution is to add a vent in the corner of the blackwater tank.

Thanks Mark. That is what I was thinking. There appears to be plenty of room to do this where the tank enters in the bathroom vanity.

The more I discover about the black tank, the more it looks like it needs to be pulled to add a vent connection, and upgrade the dump to a modern valve. Can the tank come out w/o disassembling the whole bath?

I've never worked with fiberglass before so I'm wondering if this is something I can do. I doubt any shop is going to want to tackle this smelly box!

[flyfshr]

Originally on my Trade Wind, there were two vent pipes exiting the roof. One from the closet next to the galley cabinet streetside for the front sink plumbing. The other came out the roof from the bathroom cabinet and was exposed inside the bathroom until it exited the roof. Being a park model, my trailer was without a black tank, which I added later. It now has a black water tank vent just inside the streetside bathroom wall.

The original vent pipe that was from the bathroom cabinet was to vent the curbside (CA made trailer) shower/tub drain line. I didn't want this obtrusive pipe taking up valuable space in the bathroom so I re-engineered the whole set-up. I'll explain.

The tub I have has a hollow side wall along the flat side of it and I got to thinking the vent pipe only needs to be as tall as the water level would ever be inside the tub. Well, at 6' 4", I can't think of any reason to take a bath instead of a shower so I ran the vent pipe up inside this hollow space in the tub wall. I capped the top with a course sponge in an effort to keep the gurgling noise down from the water draining but still being allowed to breathe. I sealed off the hole in the ceiling from the inside and the outside and still have the apperance from the outside of having a vent hole by using the appropriate diameter of aluminum tubing, polished of course, out the top along with the original cast aluminum trim piece. This has worked great and has freed up the visual space in the small bathroom. Pictures at eleven.

Brad
FF

[markdoane]

Tim:

I don't know if you need to pull out the shower pan to get the tank out. . I removed both at the same time.

I did find the old brass 2" sliding gate valve to be a real bear to take off the bottom of the tank. And I have a very large chain wrench. It still took me and Scooter a lot of force to break it loose.

If you are going to put in a regular Thetford or Valterra valve, I would just saw around the old nipple rather than try to wrench it off.

Working with fiberglass is not something you want to take up if you can avoid it. I would say try to clean up the tank and take it to a marina or some repair facility if you can. I've done a fair amount of fiberglass work, and it is messy, obnoxious and unpleasant.

Have you considered putting on a macerator pump?

[Safari Tim]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Tim:

Have you considered putting on a macerator pump?

No, I have not given any thought to one. I'll look into it though.

Here are the pictures I promised.

[scottanlily]

My 60 tradewind has the rear cargo door ,you can get to the black tank right thru the rear of the trailer to put in a vent ,i could run it thru the bottom of the cabinet right to the pipe sticking out from the wall .I wouldn't have to remove the tank at all either .The hole needs to be an inch diameter
which is easy work with a 1" hole saw and glass in a fitting .I can use my makita angle drill .Boy when you have an angle drill ,you don't know how you managed without it .really good investment .

Scott

[Safari Tim]

How hard is it to *glass in a fitting*? Can you give me a run down of the steps?

BTW- I have a right angle drill and the tank extends into the vanity where a fitting could be *glassed in*.

[scottanlily]

Hello Safari Tim,

The way to glass the fitting is pretty easy.Locate where you want the fitting
in your tank .Go to the home depot or ? and pickup a 2" long pcv fitting ,
just a tube really 1" diameter ,get a fiberglass resin kit ,either there or the auto parts store ,they sell a small complete repair kit. You get a 1" hole saw
for drilling the hole ,also relatively cheap as you do not need the heavy duty
hole saw ,the home stores sell a small hole saw set. Now Locate and drill
the 1" hole in the tank .Then sand the area about 2or 3" out from the hole
with 60 grit sandpaper to rough up the area for some " bite" for the fiberglass and resin. your just scuffing up the surface .test fit the fitting in the hole ,don't let it fall in .Mix your resin per instructions and you need rubber gloves. cut the fiberglass into 1" strips would be good say about 8 or more
then brush the resin mixed with the hardener liberally onto the base of the fitting and around the prepared area out about 3" then lay down around the fitting strips of fiberglass and saturate with the resin mix layer over layer
thicker around the fitting outward ,does not have to be pretty! you can build
up the strips of fiberglass about 3 layers at base of fitting outward.You are
going to have it layered thicker at the fitting attachment point of course for strength then extend out .Brush the matt so it is not bulged up ,You also
can use short 1" strips and build up .brush out the air under the strips ,you
will see what I mean and just resin and brush and then your done .The resin
will cure ,don't mess with it for say 3 or 4 hours so it hardens properly.Note if your fitting fits loose (going back to the beginning for a minute) You can wrap
a bit of wire around the bottom of the fitting too keep it from falling in so
you don't have to hold it the whole time ,and you can install an elbow if that directs the vent hose better ,same procedure .Really not a big deal and stop to take a breather or wear a mask to keep from breathing the resin fumes in the closed area ,just take time to get a fresh breath often .Really the glassing will go pretty quick ,remember a good solid glassing in ,not how good
it looks .Where the mask when sanding the tank to scuff also ,normal protective measures to protect your health .I recommend get the mask
when you get your supplies as saftey first.A WHOLE lot less work than pulling
the floor step up area and the wall next to the toilet or the vanity to get the black tank out to fit a vent .

Scott

[Safari Tim]

Thanks Scott for that detailed instruction.

I think I can handle this! And like you said, do it in place.

I'm adding it to my todo list.

Thanks again.

[flyfshr]

That is the same aluminum pedistal base I had before it broke when I was taking it out. It didn't have a vent fitting though. Mine was also without a black water tank too. Probably why it wasn't vented.

Man, does this pic bring back memories!!

Brad
FF

[scottanlily]

You know I bet not happy ones ,I redid the floor above the blacktank
due to a leaky toilet when I bought my tradewind and that was the first area I tackled .Removed the old galaxy aqua magic ,gross ,then up rooted the floor
area ,the subfloor was great and the tank looked just fine ,fiberglass is long
lasting and very strong .I just had to rebuild the small step up area of
the floor ,I put down new linoleum in the rear bath .Came out great.
Safari Tims looks real original and solid from the pics anyway .My trdwnd
has the exact layout ,using a porcelin sealand travler lite commode.I did not
as you might think need to take the black tank out ,so I didn't .From the initial look of Tims floor ,he might be in good shape there. No need ripping it all out unless you need to and some do .

Scott

[scottanlily]

I just might have to take my own procedure about fiberglass and hook up
my vent pipe as it is the same as Tims ,as is the bath layout exactly.I haven't experienced any ill vent effects ,but I think I will add that to my to do list ,as I always have some stuff to do . couldn't hurt .

scott

[scottanlily]

Darn it ,have not double clicked in ages ,sorry about that folks.

Scott

[Safari Tim]

Great! (I was going to say, Great Scott!, but you've probably heard that one before )

I'll let you work out the bugs first!

Na, just kidding. As I get to it, I'll be sure to post. Thanks for the info and suggestions.

I really would like to update the dump valve assembly as well. If I can do it from the bottom w/o removing the tank, that would be great.

I'll just have to wait unil I get to that point to see.

Originally Posted by scottanlily

I just might have to take my own procedure about fiberglass and hook up
my vent pipe as it is the same as Tims ,as is the bath layout exactly.I haven't experienced any ill vent effects ,but I think I will add that to my to do list ,as I always have some stuff to do . couldn't hurt .

scott

[scottanlily]

Yea I consider the dump valve deal ,it is all brass ,the main valve ,although
the lower 2" pipe tailpiece is not .I refit a new brass tail piece and resealed the shaft ,new double o ring packing and some grease .I like the mechanical
brass valve setup ,works fine .Now that being said ,the later brass valve setups on airstreams 61 or62 and 63 etc is completely different than tims or mine .I don't know if those can be repaired or not .Many times these valves
can be fixed ,maybe the part is not available from inland or ? but they are simple design ,brass ,long lasting .Just an idea if the valve isn't too far gone
as some can be.Tim you can go ahead and do your vent ,I will get to mine
sometime I don't know just when ,always somthing going on .

Scott