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Old 10-19-2007, 09:40 PM   #21
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodedareas
Finally I talked with a person in the Airstream service department. I explained my problem and I was shocked by his answer. He said that they do not pump antifreeze through the pump so they do not have to access the pump under the closet. They drain all systems and the with about 45 # of pressure blow out the lines. They they pour antifreeze into all of the traps and the toilet. He then explained that I could have ordered the valve on the water pump when I ordered the Airstream.This will be the last of my post on this subject but thought you might be interested in the comments from Airstream.
Woodedareas

You must have reached a real gem of a factory rep that was hired yesterday. I would call him back and tell him to get a copy of the Airstream Owners Manual Sarfari for 2007 and READ the section on Winterizing and Storage:
Page F-7, Item 6, Remove exhaust hoses from water pump
Page F-8, Item 7, Disconnect the water pump inlet and turn on until all water is expelled.........
Page F-8, Item 9, .....apply at least 60 lbs of air pressure at the city water.........
Page F-8, Item 1, Reconnect all lines except the hose to the pump inlet port.......
Page F-8, Item 3, Attache a length of hose to the pump inlet port..........
Page F-8, Item 8, Disconnect the hose length from pump inlet fitting and reconnect water system inlet line.
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Old 10-22-2007, 05:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dabeach
Woodedareas

You must have reached a real gem of a factory rep that was hired yesterday. I would call him back and tell him to get a copy of the Airstream Owners Manual Sarfari for 2007 and READ the section on Winterizing and Storage:
Page F-7, Item 6, Remove exhaust hoses from water pump
Page F-8, Item 7, Disconnect the water pump inlet and turn on until all water is expelled.........
Page F-8, Item 9, .....apply at least 60 lbs of air pressure at the city water.........
Page F-8, Item 1, Reconnect all lines except the hose to the pump inlet port.......
Page F-8, Item 3, Attache a length of hose to the pump inlet port..........
Page F-8, Item 8, Disconnect the hose length from pump inlet fitting and reconnect water system inlet line.
This is the 3rd rep from Airstream who is one of their technicians.I even tiried to speak to the office of the Preisent and the further up the line I went the ruder the secretaries. It was a good lesson as I realize if I had a severe problem no one in the organization really cares about the consumer. It is ironic that I am also the president of a small firm that I have successfully operated for 37 years and I take any call related to our service. The same holds true for the CEO's of Starbucks and Nordstroms. I guess the President of Airstream and his rude assisstant have another business model.
Finally I followed the manual and did everything as suggested but I was unable to determine how to remove what is referred to as the exhaust hose. I had to work mostly by feel and I was able to remove and replace the water pump inlet. Hopefully next spring I will still have a plumbing system. I have found that the Airstream Company makes owning their product very difficult and time consuming. Maybe one day they will actually write an owners guide that has some real advice.Next spring I plan to sell this trailer and put my time to work with a charity rather than waste my time maintaining a new Airstream.
Thanks
Allen
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:24 PM   #23
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Waterpump revisited

I just looked at the accursed 25' Safari FB water pump. The owner's manual shows a different pump and the Aquatec website drawings are so faint to be invisible. Thanks to this thread it's confirmed the inlet is at the inaccessible side of the pump. The fittings to the pump are locked in by a slide and maybe the tubing can be pulled out and different tubing slid in from the antifreeze bottle and locked in with some sort of friction or compression fitting in the interior of the pump? Maybe I can cut the inlet tubing and install a T with two valves for a permanent solution? I haven't done anything yet, but the lines are so short and the heat duct and much wiring make it improbable the pump can be repositioned very much. I would like to turn it 90˚. The pump can get pretty hot, but they put all that wiring next to itómore bad design.

Anyone had some success with this since the last posts?

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Old 12-01-2007, 06:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
Anyone had some success with this since the last posts?
Gene
Yes
CanoeStream's post http://www.airforums.com/forums/184129-post114.html solved the hard part of the problem: knowing where the water pump is located and how to gain access.

I had to remove an access panel under the fridge and move a heat duct to gain access.

Then cut the pex leading to the inlet port of the pump.

Then attached a 1/2 barb x 1/2 FPT Pex connector to both ends of a Camco 3-way bypass valve.

Shortened the pex pipe and used a crimp ring to attach the Camco value

And finally, re-attached assembly to the water pump.
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:38 PM   #25
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Thanks Mike (or is it Joan?). I tried to remove the access panel under the refrigerator, but it's so tight I couldn't get it to rotate upwards to get it out of the way. Many bad thoughts followed. I could look and barely see some of the pump. I will figure out how to move the damn thing and hopefully make it less tight so I can move it. Thoughts of destruction and use of the mighty saw.

I love these projects where fixing one thing that's almost impossible leads to another thing which is stupid and then there's another thing to relocate that require miniature hands, and then comes the uncontrollable cursing, followed by a call to Jackson Center demanding redress of grievances and the CEO's head.

The pictures are great. I'll have to see if my local hardware store has that stuff (questionable, but the prices are always outrageous).

Does your pump have a threaded fitting, or the slide next to the PEX that mine has?

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Old 12-02-2007, 11:14 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
I tried to remove the access panel under the refrigerator, but it's so tight I couldn't get it to rotate upwards to get it out of the way. Many bad thoughts followed. I could look and barely see some of the pump. I will figure out how to move the damn thing and hopefully make it less tight so I can move it. Thoughts of destruction and use of the mighty saw.

I love these projects where fixing one thing that's almost impossible leads to another thing which is stupid and then there's another thing to relocate that require miniature hands, and then comes the uncontrollable cursing, followed by a call to Jackson Center demanding redress of grievances and the CEO's head.

I'll have to see if my local hardware store has that stuff (questionable, but the prices are always outrageous).

Does your pump have a threaded fitting, or the slide next to the PEX that mine has?

Gene
I had the same problem removing the access panel. Mine was attached with small brads. I just "wiggled" it out. I will shorten the panel just a bit and reattach with small screws to make it easier to gain access in spring and fall.

Like you, I don't understand why a by-pass valve with easy access isn't a standard feature.

About the pex fittings ... I ordered mine at pexconnection.com. My local Home Depot also carries them now. The fittings do not cost much. The problem is the pex crimp ring tool, which very expensive. If you can't borrow one, you may want to use a "Flair-It coupling" instead. Many RV dealers sell these couplings or you can order at: Pex Connection : Flair-It Couplings Part No 06840.

The inlet to the pump is threaded 1/2 M

On my 2007 25' FB International the water line from the water tank is connected to a water strainer and the water strainer is then connected to the inlet of the water pump. The water strainer and water pump connections are both 1/2 male pipe thread. You can see the strainer and water pump in my first pics and in CanoeStream's. Key#1 is the connection at the water pump and Key#3 is the connection at the strainer.

If you use the Flair-It connection, the only other parts needed are supplied with the Camco winterizing kit. Just disconnect the pex from the filter (Key#3 in CanoeStream's post). Cut the pex tubing leading from the water tank. Follow the directions in the Camco kit to install the by-pass valve to the intake side of the filter. Shorten the pex tubing to account for the length of the by-pass valve and Flair-It fitting. Use the Flair-It fitting to splice the pex tubing. BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO CUT AWAY TOO MUCH PEX TUBING AND TO LEAVE ENOUGH PIPE ON EITHER SIDE OF THE FLAIR-IT TO ALLOW THE COUPLING TO BE FULLY INSERTED INTO THE PEX TUBING.

I think the procedure is easier to do than to explain. It's really just: (1) follow the Camco directions to attach the by-pass value, (2) shorten the intake line (instead of moving the pump), and (3) splice the pex tubing together with a Flair-It connection.

My FB International may be different from your Safari, but based on CanoeStream's pictures, they seem pretty much the same.

I would recommend getting Canoestream's opinion on this approach before going ahead.

Hope this helps
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Old 12-02-2007, 12:15 PM   #27
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Just saw this thread.

There is very easy way to add a by-pass valve kit to your water pump. It is made by Sea-Tech and the part # is 35-WK04. This includes all necessary fittings, PEX tubing and the required 3-way valve for by-passing the heater tank. All of the fittings push on and form a great water -tight connection.

The preferred method for winterizing in this situation is to drain your water tank in the heater AND your fresh water tank. You fill a few gallons of anti-freeze into your fresh tank, by-pass the heater tank and run the water thru your faucets, toilet, shower and any other water outlets one at a time until the anti-freeze comes out the faucets. This assures you that the valves and p-traps are fully protected and all fittings have anti-freeze in them.

The air method is OK, but you still have to run the anti-freeze thru the system to be sure that everything is protected.
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Old 12-02-2007, 12:35 PM   #28
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Question

Hiker (Mike)

I was looking at the Camco three-way bypass valve and was concerned about the small diameter of the hole in the valve assembly that the water flows through in comparision to the larger diameter of the water supply lines. Have you noticed any problem with the pump not getting enough water when using the valve in the normal operating mode?
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Old 12-02-2007, 12:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Just saw this thread.

There is very easy way to add a by-pass valve kit to your water pump. It is made by Sea-Tech and the part # is 35-WK04. This includes all necessary fittings, PEX tubing and the required 3-way valve for by-passing the heater tank. All of the fittings push on and form a great water -tight connection.

The preferred method for winterizing in this situation is to drain your water tank in the heater AND your fresh water tank. You fill a few gallons of anti-freeze into your fresh tank, by-pass the heater tank and run the water thru your faucets, toilet, shower and any other water outlets one at a time until the anti-freeze comes out the faucets. This assures you that the valves and p-traps are fully protected and all fittings have anti-freeze in them.

The air method is OK, but you still have to run the anti-freeze thru the system to be sure that everything is protected.
I think SeaTech part no 35WK-04 is a kit to by-pass the hot water heater. The newer Airstreams come from the factory with a by-pass of the hot water heater already installed.

SeaTech does sell a water siphon kit for by-passing the fresh water tank (part# is 35WK-06). The kit description says it can be used with any plastic, CPVC, or copper plumbing line. I don't know whether this includes PEX tubing.
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Old 12-02-2007, 02:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dabeach
Hiker (Mike)

I was looking at the Camco three-way bypass valve and was concerned about the small diameter of the hole in the valve assembly that the water flows through in comparision to the larger diameter of the water supply lines. Have you noticed any problem with the pump not getting enough water when using the valve in the normal operating mode?
Good question. I had the same concern and briefly consider doing the by-pass with two one-way ball valves instead of the Camco. I decided to try the Camco first because a number of forum members have described using it without reporting flow problems.

I can't provide a definite answer to your question because this is my first winter and I haven't yet used the fresh water for a full camping season. I can say that I couldn't detect any change in water flow when testing for leaks after installing the valve.

I think this would be a good question to other forum members who have installed the Camco by-pass valve.
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Old 12-02-2007, 02:17 PM   #31
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Nope, I've used mine for 2 seasons since the install and I haven't noticed a problem with that at all. Everything seems normal.
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:28 PM   #32
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I think I'm going to use the lewster system and in the spring install the bypass for the water pump. If I go looking for supplies or order a kit, it'll take a week or more to finish the job. I'm still wondering how I'll get to the filter, which must be at the inlet in back of the water pump, out to clean it (I'll need to order that 3" tall guy with the wrench for a mouth too), but since we've only camped for 14 nights, I'm not going to worry about it now. I did get an adapter of sorts to blow out the system—a male hose connection tapering down to a small enough part to push against with the rubber tool from the compressor (thanks to whoever suggested that a while back). Good enough until I get the proper adapter. Next spring, I'll just have to flush the potable water tank endlessly and use Clorox a few times to get the taste out—I'd do that anyway.

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Old 12-02-2007, 04:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Just saw this thread.

There is very easy way to add a by-pass valve kit to your water pump. It is made by Sea-Tech and the part # is 35-WK04. This includes all necessary fittings, PEX tubing and the required 3-way valve for by-passing the heater tank. All of the fittings push on and form a great water -tight connection.

The preferred method for winterizing in this situation is to drain your water tank in the heater AND your fresh water tank. You fill a few gallons of anti-freeze into your fresh tank, by-pass the heater tank and run the water thru your faucets, toilet, shower and any other water outlets one at a time until the anti-freeze comes out the faucets. This assures you that the valves and p-traps are fully protected and all fittings have anti-freeze in them.

The air method is OK, but you still have to run the anti-freeze thru the system to be sure that everything is protected.
Sorry gang

I meant a water heater bypass it. You don't by-pass the water pump, since you need to have antifreeze in that also .

It was a rough nite last night........................
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Old 12-02-2007, 06:36 PM   #34
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Pink water

It's ok lew. I got it done. Pink water everywhere. Water heater bypassed. Some A/S water pump placement designer, name unknown, has a curse on him or her.

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Old 12-02-2007, 08:34 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
It's ok lew. I got it done. Pink water everywhere. Water heater bypassed. Some A/S water pump placement designer, name unknown, has a curse on him or her.

Gene
Hey Gne,

Good work! Now that you are intimately familiar with your water pump, you might want to change it out for a QUIET, better unit like some of us have done. We are using the ShurFlo Smart Sensor 4.0 GPM unit, part #4900-0211. It moves a lot of water, but is variable speed, quiet and very reliable. Plus, no accumulator tank is ever needed.

You could easily move it to a more accessible area in it's present comparment with a little PEX tubing and Sea-Tech fittings. 'Might' take you a half hour for the whole job!

Let me know if you need more info on this conversion.
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Old 12-02-2007, 08:43 PM   #36
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Lew, thanks for the tip. We got kinda used to the noise. I'll keep it in mid for the spring.

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Old 12-02-2007, 09:59 PM   #37
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Guys, thanks for all the informative posts. I too, have spent many hours designing a pump intake selector valve arraingement to conveniently pump atifreeze through the system. I tried the Sea Tec three way kit designed for that purpose. No matter how it was fitted before the strainer it would suck air along with the antifreeze. I replaced the valve with clamps and a short piece of clear plastic tubing. No more air in the system. I stopped at Airstream Service and explained the problem. I was told you can not use push on fitting on the suction side of the pump.
I had been concerned with flow restrictions also, and did not think the Camco valve bore looked large enough. Back to the drawing board. I have deducted that in the plumbing trade I need a "full flow" rated 3-way valve. It takes a 3/8" valve to match the I. D. of the 1/2" PEX the factory uses in the water system.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:51 PM   #38
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A/S winterizing method; water pump

I was talking to an Airstream tech about another issue, and I mentioned the location of the water pump. He said they just blow out the lines and add antifreeze to the traps. Thus, they don't add antifreeze to the waterlines. I mentioned this was different from the owner's manual. His reply was that blowing air through forced the water out of the pump. I asked what about the screen on the inlet side of the pump that I can't even see. He didn't seem to think it had to be cleaned. My thoughtósomething has to get caught in it someday.

I asked if others had complained and he said yes, the company is aware of the problem. I suggested the company should make good on it and fix the location.

I suggest anyone with this pump location should call A/S and complain and ask whether the company is going to do a recall and relocate the pump.

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Old 12-07-2007, 05:29 PM   #39
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I Tried

I think I started this thread. After many hours of research and help from the Forum, I gave up and used the factory forced air method.I called the factory 3 times and they will not admit that the pump is not accessable.Fortunately I have not had many other issues and from my point of view dealing with Airstream has been a very unpleasant and frustrating experience. Airstream is aware of the problem and they should relocate the pump for all of us who have the problem. But don't hold your breath.
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Old 12-26-2007, 02:16 PM   #40
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As I Have about 3 left weeks before final pickup of my 2007 FB SE , i was wondering if i should have the dealer install a bypass kit before winterizing it. They will not winterize it until after i go through the final PDI inspection at that time. What bypass kit should i have them install, and what should it cost? I'm picking up my rig from a southern california dealer (Revolution RV) where winterizing is not required in that area,then bringing it home to the Lake Tahoe area which requires winterizing.
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