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Old 10-14-2007, 10:21 AM   #15
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Great photos. I guess you can chalk this up to what we call UNskilled labor. They just do what someother unskilled person tells them to do.I f I could just accesss the pump I would have a fighting chance. I have now decided to put the antifreeze in the water supply even though this is not the ideal solutuion.
Thanks for the help.
Allen
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Old 10-14-2007, 11:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodedareas
The only practical method of reaching the back side of the pump is to saw an opening through the floor of the closet which I really do not want to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodedareas
I could just accesss the pump I would have a fighting chance. I have now decided to put the antifreeze in the water supply even though this is not the ideal solutuion.
Allen, did you look at removing the 4 screws that attach the pump to the floor? I found this to be a very easy solution. The 27' & 25' FB are so similar in other ways. I'll post a straight on picture of my under wardrobe space maybe within 7-10 days.

I sure wouldn't put antifreeze into the water tank. Pay to have a dealer winterize it this time instead. Remember to pull the carbon cartridge from the kitchen faucet yourself before you take it in -- the glycol will ruin it. I don't put it back in until the spring when there's no possibility of antifreeze in the system.

Here are some other pics. The first is a hose thread port with a rubber tipped compressor attachment that I use -- it's not as handy as john hd's cuz it takes 2 people -- not a problem for once a year. The 2nd has the water valves by my hot water heater -- they are all open as if I would be blowing it out (HW heater not to be drained yet). Valves 2 & 4 are closed in normal camping operation. We can discuss this at any time in the future when you want to tackle it.
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Old 10-14-2007, 11:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanoeStream
Allen, did you look at removing the 4 screws that attach the pump to the floor? I found this to be a very easy solution. The 27' & 25' FB are so similar in other ways. I'll post a straight on picture of my under wardrobe space maybe within 7-10 days.

I sure wouldn't put antifreeze into the water tank. Pay to have a dealer winterize it this time instead. Remember to pull the carbon cartridge from the kitchen faucet yourself before you take it in -- the glycol will ruin it. I don't put it back in until the spring when there's no possibility of antifreeze in the system.

Here are some other pics. The first is a hose thread port with a rubber tipped compressor attachment that I use -- it's not as handy as john hd's cuz it takes 2 people -- not a problem for once a year. The 2nd has the water valves by my hot water heater -- they are all open as if I would be blowing it out (HW heater not to be drained yet). Valves 2 & 4 are closed in normal camping operation. We can discuss this at any time in the future when you want to tackle it.
Bob
Iwill definitely remove the caetridge. I can access the two pump screws facing me and I can try and reach over and see if i can reach the other 2 pump scews and then pull the pump forward or turn it towards me so I cann access the inlet side and connect the adapter.I will give it a try. The dealer would proably have to do the same thing or cut the botoom of the closet floor board. I am so busy right now I don't have the time to pull the trailer to the dealer.
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Allen
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by wasafari
hope you find a way to get to your pump, when you do take a very long hard look at relocating it where you can get at it. I swear the factory built my system up then shoved it up against the wheel well/wall so tight it was damn near inpossible to unscrew the inline filter and remove it so I could get my line attached to suck the antifreeze in. So after three years of cursing etc I moved the darn thing. took me all of 5 minutes to do it this year. So I'm a slow learner....

Jack

first photo shows how the water pump was moved out towards the closet door. I put a soft piece of pex inline between the filer and pump, the whole piece now comes right out.....
I decided to give it the old college try. I loosened the 4 screw on the water pump. The screws on the other side of the pump facing away from me had to be removed by touch and feel as I could not see the. Finally I was able to move the pump but only an inch or two due to all of the other wire, heating ducts and water lines. I could not get adequate access to the pump to remove the water line and install the new valve.So I replaced the screws and now will revert to the only method I have left and that is to use antifreeze in the street water tank after I blow out the lines. I am still working on the last srew replacement as I can not see what I am doing and must go by touch and feel. What a great experience.I don't think I am having a good time.
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:52 PM   #19
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So sorry.... Karma for trying!
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:09 PM   #20
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Reply from Airstream re: Winterizing

Finally I talked with a person in the Airstream service department. I explained my problem and I was shocked by his answer. He said that they do not pump antifreeze through the pump so they do not have to access the pump under the closet. They drain all systems and the with about 45 # of pressure blow out the lines. They they pour antifreeze into all of the traps and the toilet. He then explained that I could have ordered the valve on the water pump when I ordered the Airstream.This will be the last of my post on this subject but thought you might be interested in the comments from Airstream.
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Old 10-19-2007, 09:40 PM   #21
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodedareas
Finally I talked with a person in the Airstream service department. I explained my problem and I was shocked by his answer. He said that they do not pump antifreeze through the pump so they do not have to access the pump under the closet. They drain all systems and the with about 45 # of pressure blow out the lines. They they pour antifreeze into all of the traps and the toilet. He then explained that I could have ordered the valve on the water pump when I ordered the Airstream.This will be the last of my post on this subject but thought you might be interested in the comments from Airstream.
Woodedareas

You must have reached a real gem of a factory rep that was hired yesterday. I would call him back and tell him to get a copy of the Airstream Owners Manual Sarfari for 2007 and READ the section on Winterizing and Storage:
Page F-7, Item 6, Remove exhaust hoses from water pump
Page F-8, Item 7, Disconnect the water pump inlet and turn on until all water is expelled.........
Page F-8, Item 9, .....apply at least 60 lbs of air pressure at the city water.........
Page F-8, Item 1, Reconnect all lines except the hose to the pump inlet port.......
Page F-8, Item 3, Attache a length of hose to the pump inlet port..........
Page F-8, Item 8, Disconnect the hose length from pump inlet fitting and reconnect water system inlet line.
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Old 10-22-2007, 05:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dabeach
Woodedareas

You must have reached a real gem of a factory rep that was hired yesterday. I would call him back and tell him to get a copy of the Airstream Owners Manual Sarfari for 2007 and READ the section on Winterizing and Storage:
Page F-7, Item 6, Remove exhaust hoses from water pump
Page F-8, Item 7, Disconnect the water pump inlet and turn on until all water is expelled.........
Page F-8, Item 9, .....apply at least 60 lbs of air pressure at the city water.........
Page F-8, Item 1, Reconnect all lines except the hose to the pump inlet port.......
Page F-8, Item 3, Attache a length of hose to the pump inlet port..........
Page F-8, Item 8, Disconnect the hose length from pump inlet fitting and reconnect water system inlet line.
This is the 3rd rep from Airstream who is one of their technicians.I even tiried to speak to the office of the Preisent and the further up the line I went the ruder the secretaries. It was a good lesson as I realize if I had a severe problem no one in the organization really cares about the consumer. It is ironic that I am also the president of a small firm that I have successfully operated for 37 years and I take any call related to our service. The same holds true for the CEO's of Starbucks and Nordstroms. I guess the President of Airstream and his rude assisstant have another business model.
Finally I followed the manual and did everything as suggested but I was unable to determine how to remove what is referred to as the exhaust hose. I had to work mostly by feel and I was able to remove and replace the water pump inlet. Hopefully next spring I will still have a plumbing system. I have found that the Airstream Company makes owning their product very difficult and time consuming. Maybe one day they will actually write an owners guide that has some real advice.Next spring I plan to sell this trailer and put my time to work with a charity rather than waste my time maintaining a new Airstream.
Thanks
Allen
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:24 PM   #23
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Waterpump revisited

I just looked at the accursed 25' Safari FB water pump. The owner's manual shows a different pump and the Aquatec website drawings are so faint to be invisible. Thanks to this thread it's confirmed the inlet is at the inaccessible side of the pump. The fittings to the pump are locked in by a slide and maybe the tubing can be pulled out and different tubing slid in from the antifreeze bottle and locked in with some sort of friction or compression fitting in the interior of the pump? Maybe I can cut the inlet tubing and install a T with two valves for a permanent solution? I haven't done anything yet, but the lines are so short and the heat duct and much wiring make it improbable the pump can be repositioned very much. I would like to turn it 90˚. The pump can get pretty hot, but they put all that wiring next to itómore bad design.

Anyone had some success with this since the last posts?

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Old 12-01-2007, 06:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
Anyone had some success with this since the last posts?
Gene
Yes
CanoeStream's post http://www.airforums.com/forums/184129-post114.html solved the hard part of the problem: knowing where the water pump is located and how to gain access.

I had to remove an access panel under the fridge and move a heat duct to gain access.

Then cut the pex leading to the inlet port of the pump.

Then attached a 1/2 barb x 1/2 FPT Pex connector to both ends of a Camco 3-way bypass valve.

Shortened the pex pipe and used a crimp ring to attach the Camco value

And finally, re-attached assembly to the water pump.
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:38 PM   #25
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Thanks Mike (or is it Joan?). I tried to remove the access panel under the refrigerator, but it's so tight I couldn't get it to rotate upwards to get it out of the way. Many bad thoughts followed. I could look and barely see some of the pump. I will figure out how to move the damn thing and hopefully make it less tight so I can move it. Thoughts of destruction and use of the mighty saw.

I love these projects where fixing one thing that's almost impossible leads to another thing which is stupid and then there's another thing to relocate that require miniature hands, and then comes the uncontrollable cursing, followed by a call to Jackson Center demanding redress of grievances and the CEO's head.

The pictures are great. I'll have to see if my local hardware store has that stuff (questionable, but the prices are always outrageous).

Does your pump have a threaded fitting, or the slide next to the PEX that mine has?

Gene
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Old 12-02-2007, 11:14 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
I tried to remove the access panel under the refrigerator, but it's so tight I couldn't get it to rotate upwards to get it out of the way. Many bad thoughts followed. I could look and barely see some of the pump. I will figure out how to move the damn thing and hopefully make it less tight so I can move it. Thoughts of destruction and use of the mighty saw.

I love these projects where fixing one thing that's almost impossible leads to another thing which is stupid and then there's another thing to relocate that require miniature hands, and then comes the uncontrollable cursing, followed by a call to Jackson Center demanding redress of grievances and the CEO's head.

I'll have to see if my local hardware store has that stuff (questionable, but the prices are always outrageous).

Does your pump have a threaded fitting, or the slide next to the PEX that mine has?

Gene
I had the same problem removing the access panel. Mine was attached with small brads. I just "wiggled" it out. I will shorten the panel just a bit and reattach with small screws to make it easier to gain access in spring and fall.

Like you, I don't understand why a by-pass valve with easy access isn't a standard feature.

About the pex fittings ... I ordered mine at pexconnection.com. My local Home Depot also carries them now. The fittings do not cost much. The problem is the pex crimp ring tool, which very expensive. If you can't borrow one, you may want to use a "Flair-It coupling" instead. Many RV dealers sell these couplings or you can order at: Pex Connection : Flair-It Couplings Part No 06840.

The inlet to the pump is threaded 1/2 M

On my 2007 25' FB International the water line from the water tank is connected to a water strainer and the water strainer is then connected to the inlet of the water pump. The water strainer and water pump connections are both 1/2 male pipe thread. You can see the strainer and water pump in my first pics and in CanoeStream's. Key#1 is the connection at the water pump and Key#3 is the connection at the strainer.

If you use the Flair-It connection, the only other parts needed are supplied with the Camco winterizing kit. Just disconnect the pex from the filter (Key#3 in CanoeStream's post). Cut the pex tubing leading from the water tank. Follow the directions in the Camco kit to install the by-pass valve to the intake side of the filter. Shorten the pex tubing to account for the length of the by-pass valve and Flair-It fitting. Use the Flair-It fitting to splice the pex tubing. BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO CUT AWAY TOO MUCH PEX TUBING AND TO LEAVE ENOUGH PIPE ON EITHER SIDE OF THE FLAIR-IT TO ALLOW THE COUPLING TO BE FULLY INSERTED INTO THE PEX TUBING.

I think the procedure is easier to do than to explain. It's really just: (1) follow the Camco directions to attach the by-pass value, (2) shorten the intake line (instead of moving the pump), and (3) splice the pex tubing together with a Flair-It connection.

My FB International may be different from your Safari, but based on CanoeStream's pictures, they seem pretty much the same.

I would recommend getting Canoestream's opinion on this approach before going ahead.

Hope this helps
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Old 12-02-2007, 12:15 PM   #27
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Just saw this thread.

There is very easy way to add a by-pass valve kit to your water pump. It is made by Sea-Tech and the part # is 35-WK04. This includes all necessary fittings, PEX tubing and the required 3-way valve for by-passing the heater tank. All of the fittings push on and form a great water -tight connection.

The preferred method for winterizing in this situation is to drain your water tank in the heater AND your fresh water tank. You fill a few gallons of anti-freeze into your fresh tank, by-pass the heater tank and run the water thru your faucets, toilet, shower and any other water outlets one at a time until the anti-freeze comes out the faucets. This assures you that the valves and p-traps are fully protected and all fittings have anti-freeze in them.

The air method is OK, but you still have to run the anti-freeze thru the system to be sure that everything is protected.
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Old 12-02-2007, 12:35 PM   #28
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Question

Hiker (Mike)

I was looking at the Camco three-way bypass valve and was concerned about the small diameter of the hole in the valve assembly that the water flows through in comparision to the larger diameter of the water supply lines. Have you noticed any problem with the pump not getting enough water when using the valve in the normal operating mode?
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