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Old 08-05-2017, 09:49 AM   #1
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Water/Hot Water 2018 Classic

We took delivery of our 2018 30' Classic yesterday. We are experiencing some issues using water and hot water. It certainly could be a newbie user issue.

We are connected to city water and electric. The trailer had a full tank of fresh water on delivery. We connected to city water and it is showing 40 psi of pressure on the regulator. To get enough pressure, we have the water pump also running. Is this normal/acceptable?

We have turned on the water heater. (The first time, it tripped the breaker at the pole because one of the AC units was running.) This morning we tried water heater again and actually added the shower boost and we are only getting seconds of warmish water in the sink faucet. Is there something we are doing wrong?

All advice welcome!
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Old 08-05-2017, 12:25 PM   #2
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You don't need the pump on when you are on city water.
Did you make sure the water heater was full before turning it on? Otherwise you may have fried the heating element.
Was the coach winterized when you took delivery?
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:15 PM   #3
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Water/Hot Water 2018 Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajwbarnard View Post
We took delivery of our 2018 30' Classic yesterday. We are experiencing some issues using water and hot water. It certainly could be a newbie user issue.

We are connected to city water and electric. The trailer had a full tank of fresh water on delivery. We connected to city water and it is showing 40 psi of pressure on the regulator. To get enough pressure, we have the water pump also running. Is this normal/acceptable?

We have turned on the water heater. (The first time, it tripped the breaker at the pole because one of the AC units was running.) This morning we tried water heater again and actually added the shower boost and we are only getting seconds of warmish water in the sink faucet. Is there something we are doing wrong?

All advice welcome!


The shower boost takes about 15 to 20 minutes to get the water temperature up to 149 to 151 degrees. I thought the 2018's had the new Alde on demand system? Ours is a 2017. There is a great thread on the forum called "Much Ado About Alde". Search for that and you will find many answers. Things are different on the 17's and 18's and most of that thread will be referring to the 17's, but it will still help understanding the system better. We have a separate Alde Control Panel and my understanding is that your Alde controls are integrated in your Firefly panel.
Not sure but if you're water pump is on you might be pulling from your fresh water tank. Also, if you added an inline pressure regulator outside you are reducing your pressure significantly since the trailer has a built in water pressure regulator.
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:46 PM   #4
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Hi

Water and power basics:

The pressure into the regulator should be up around 50 pounds or so. Coming out, anything over 30 pounds should be "good enough. My guess is that you are running through a really long hose and that is giving you a pressure issue. A typical hose run is < 25 feet.

Running both the pump and city water is not a real good idea. It should be an either / or kind of thing.

The "old" Alde system had two electric heaters and one LP driven heater. To get it rip roaring hot you turned on all three.

At the sink (on the older system), the normal "hot water" is what I would call very warm water. Without the shower boost it's not what I would call hot. How hot it gets is adjustable. One dealer likely sets it different than the next. Since it's a mix valve, very cold city water will give you "colder" hot water. Hotter hot water used to mean you got less of it before it died.

The 30' Classic is quite capable of tripping a 30A breaker running one AC unit. You *do* have to watch what you have turned on. When hooked up to a "50A" system, you have 100A of 120V available.(yes, it's confusing). That's what the trailer was designed for.

Bob
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:15 AM   #5
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When we are connected to 30amp, just to be sure, we only run the rear AC, which is the 13.5 AC. We also do not generally run the microwave when the AC is on. When connected to 50amp we "let her rip".

As others have said we understand that the 2018 has continuous hot water, so to speak, and therefore your flow should not be intermittent. If your trailer has the same Kohler handle and shower head our 2017 does there is an anti scald device on the Kohler handle I disconnected on our unit and now with the 2017 we get more than enough continuous hot water for two fairly long showers ie enough for my wife to wash her hair and our two regular showers. Also, as suggested I'd read every post in the "much ado about Alde" in these forums. It should answer a lot of your questions.

Bud
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi



The "old" Alde system had two electric heaters and one LP driven heater. To get it rip roaring hot you turned on all three.



Bob

According to the Alde manual if you are hooked to shore power and turn on the gas as well, the system will prioritize the electric and not use the gas. That has been my experience. We had major hot water issues after delivery like many others with 2017's. We tried everything including having the electric and gas on at the same time. It will use the electric and not the gas...at least in our unit.
Kudos go to Jon at Airstream and the service team at JC. They stuck with me and went out of there way to get the system working correctly. We now have plenty of hot water when hooked to shore power.
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Old 08-06-2017, 11:29 AM   #7
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Depending on the city water, I used to turn on the pump during showers for a higher flowrate.
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:47 PM   #8
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AJ....better or worse today?
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:05 PM   #9
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AJ, a quick look at your owners manual and the Alde phone app gives no clues, actually less than the 17 Alde. If your model number, 3020?, might be able to read manual at Alde website.
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Old 08-06-2017, 03:51 PM   #10
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Hi

One obscure thing to check: Is your glycol fluid level up where it should be? There may be interactions between an "air filled" glycol chamber and the water heater. I'd *hope* the days of un-filled heating systems are behind us. Some issues do go on and on ..... Details on how to check the fluid system are all in the previously mentioned thread. Hopefully the 2018 is close enough to a 2017 for them to apply.

Bob
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoe7009 View Post
The shower boost takes about 15 to 20 minutes to get the water temperature up to 149 to 151 degrees. I thought the 2018's had the new Alde on demand system? Ours is a 2017. There is a great thread on the forum called "Much Ado About Alde". Search for that and you will find many answers. Things are different on the 17's and 18's and most of that thread will be referring to the 17's, but it will still help understanding the system better. We have a separate Alde Control Panel and my understanding is that your Alde controls are integrated in your Firefly panel.
Not sure but if you're water pump is on you might be pulling from your fresh water tank. Also, if you added an inline pressure regulator outside you are reducing your pressure significantly since the trailer has a built in water pressure regulator.
After reading a number of issues about the OEM pressure regulator, I continue to use my Valtera regulator which is set for 50-55 P.S.I.
It not only ensures that the supplied regulator is working in a safer pressure zone; it also protects the hose from bursting due to campground overpressures.
My main sink was not giving much flow, so I removed the aeriator from the faucet. Much better flow.

Another thing to check, is that the outside shower taps are fully closed. They can bypass hot and cold water, giving warm.
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

One obscure thing to check: Is your glycol fluid level up where it should be? There may be interactions between an "air filled" glycol chamber and the water heater. I'd *hope* the days of un-filled heating systems are behind us. Some issues do go on and on ..... Details on how to check the fluid system are all in the previously mentioned thread. Hopefully the 2018 is close enough to a 2017 for them to apply.

Bob
GLYCOL??? in Water system????
DEADLY COMBO!
REALLY, REALLY FLUSH IT OUT!!
OR PAY THE FUNERAL COSTS!!
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:58 PM   #13
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Mel, relax. We are talking about the 17 and 18 Classics OnLY. These two models have radiant heat systems that no other units have. At least none that I know of...they use a special glycol based product. That is what Bob was talking about.
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Old 08-06-2017, 08:22 PM   #14
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Somewhat like the hot water/glycol base board heating of the 70s, except there is a heater with circulating pump for the fluid in the tubing.

Hopefully no leaks ever develop.

But wait, it is an Airstream......
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Old 08-06-2017, 08:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajwbarnard View Post
We took delivery of our 2018 30' Classic yesterday. We are experiencing some issues using water and hot water. It certainly could be a newbie user issue.

We are connected to city water and electric. The trailer had a full tank of fresh water on delivery. We connected to city water and it is showing 40 psi of pressure on the regulator. To get enough pressure, we have the water pump also running. Is this normal/acceptable?

We have turned on the water heater. (The first time, it tripped the breaker at the pole because one of the AC units was running.) This morning we tried water heater again and actually added the shower boost and we are only getting seconds of warmish water in the sink faucet. Is there something we are doing wrong?

All advice welcome!


So, we picked up our 2018 Classic on Jun 20/17. Since then we have spent 18 nights at the dealer and now most things on the trailer work. Hot water and heating is not one of them, at least by using the Firefly Panel. We have developed a work around that makes the trailer at least live able. The Firefly (GUI Version 2.4, Logic Controller Version 2.4) panel and the Alde panel do not seem to work together. We found the Alde panel kept turning off, no heat no hot water. So here are the steps we have taken.
1/ Open the 20 breaker on the trailers panel that supplies 120 v power to the Alde (we are at a park the only has 30 A service).
2/ On the Firefly panel insure that gas, electric, Water Heater, Heater and Shower Boost are all off.
3/ On the Alde panel (after turning it back on after attempts to use Firefly panel) hit the menu button and set the temp to desired setting, ours is at 71 F.
4/ Hit the the gas on button.
5/ Hit the button that looks like a wrench.
6/ Hit upper left button (looks like a clock) and set the time and day.
7/ Hit ok and then hit upper center button the looks like a half moon and set the night time temp. Our is set to start at 22:00 and stop at 05:00 at 68 F.
8/ At 20 min before shower time hit Menu, then second plus sign from top (turns on shower boast).

Now, all you have to do is shower quickly and if you keep moving you can just make it before you run out of hot water. As for Alde Flow it seems to be a red box that does nothing at all. Anyway, keep messing with it and be sure to let Daniel R. Snider at dsnider@airstream.com how you are making out now that you are part of the research and development team.


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Old 08-07-2017, 02:41 AM   #16
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Oh my gosh. I have so much to say I don't know where to start. As I read Happy Rvers post I counted at least 3 major things that Happy was doing wrong. Those of us with the 17s have already been down this road and weather AS wants to listen to what we have worked through or not we can help the 18 achieve enough hot water for two adults to take very comfortable hot showers. I have timed my shower and I can get 14 minutes of serious hot water before it starts to cool down. With the 18s larger tanks they should be able to do even better. The good thing is at least the 18s have a separate Alde panel that I didn't know about which is good because now they can control the system without the FireFly.
It is 3:30 am right now but I be back later to lend a hand after a little more sleep.
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Old 08-07-2017, 04:35 AM   #17
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As Lauri posted there is hope. Very simple and actually in retrospect two easy steps which many of us have taken and like Lauri we get in excess of 12 minutes of hot, not warm but hot water. Enough for two adults to take what we would call "home-regular" showers including my wife washing her hair.

The two steps are, and these are posted in the Alde tread in this section: (1) adjust the Alde mixing valve all the way to hot, but loosening it, pulling it off slightly and then turning it without actually turning the mixing valve, just the knob and then putting it back on and tightening the screw. (2) pull the Kohler handle off the shower, inside behind the plate is an anti-scalding set screw, I took ours all the way out so it no longer functions. Put it all back together.

Then we sometimes, if we want the "regular" showers will push the Alde up for more hot water and wait ten to fifteen minutes. That is it.

I suggest you read every post in the Alde sections and give some of the information a shot. I know it works for us and others.

Bud
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:52 AM   #18
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GLYCOL??? in Water system????
DEADLY COMBO!
REALLY, REALLY FLUSH IT OUT!!
OR PAY THE FUNERAL COSTS!!
Hi

The heater assembly has both glycol and hot water in it. In *normal* operation heat will flow through the glycol filled chamber portion of the assembly. Put air in that part and you have effectively no heat flow through that section. With pretty much zero details on how everything is hooked up and where the control sensor is, ... who knows if this matters.

One of the reasons for the "strange" glycol used on the Alde system is that it is *not* deadly poison. It's in the "generally regarded as safe" category. Weather this is because of a possibility of mixing or for some other reason ... again who knows.

Bob
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:11 AM   #19
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Inside leaks and pets, kids, etc. Probably still doesn't taste good.
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:31 AM   #20
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Another step for those having issues with the '18 is to turn off the Timer function completely. It never worked on mine and several other 17s that I know about. If you are hooked up to shore power, don't try and use the LP to increase heat, won't work.
If you have hot water at the tank then it is just a matter of getting that hot water to the faucets, which will work if you take the necessary steps. 1. Adjuste the mixing valve, 2. Remove anti scalding device 3. Make sure you don't have any preset timer function. 4. Hit the hot water booster function on the Alde panel about 15 minutes prior to shower.
But first make sure the Alde system is functional. Do you have fluid in the tank above toilet, hidden behind a panel. Have you bled the system for air. Read the Much ado about Alde thread for details. Once you know that the system is actually working properly then you can proceed to shower issues.
All this may take some time for Newbies but those of us that have the 17s have already worked through this and documented in the process here. I survived 2 months or cold and cold showers before I was able to get all the fixes done but then I also had a broken mixing valve that needed replaced and didn't know it until the very end.
I urge the new 18s the please read the Alde thread, you will not find this important information from Airstream. All of the information has been place here on the forum for you to use. We are here to help, encourage and advise. When you finally get the bugs worked out you will absolutely love your Airstream, I know I do.
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