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Old 03-17-2016, 11:16 AM   #29
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Regarding winterization (the kind that does not use antifreeze in the water supply lines at all), why hook up air pressure to the water heater tank, when the basic hook up to the city water supply inlet will do the trick in one operation? Granted you have to move around and open and close various faucets and low point drains a few times, including the water heater drain plug. But why repeat the same operation just at the water heater?

Am I missing something?


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Old 03-17-2016, 11:46 AM   #30
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I use an adjustable wrench on mine. I've had to replace the plug once, because it developed a crack in it. Local SOB dealer has lots of those nylon/plastic plugs. I bought 3 from him so that I always have a spare. Like others I wrap mine with teflon tape before installing it. It takes less turns to seal tight and to remove which minimizes the pressure on those corners of the plug. I'd rather not use a metal plug due to the potential of corrosion caused by dissimilar metals of the tank and plug.

I found that by scouring the tank at the end of the season with a tank cleaner wand, your tank will have a long, long, life. I had a trailer with a Suburban water heater that I owned for 14 years. I never had a problem with the water heater, which I attribute to the annual cleaning with the tank wand that removed any scale and debris within the tank.

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Old 03-17-2016, 12:23 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by CruizinDux View Post
Hey Bob, is that an air line connected to the PRV in the first image? When you winterize do you also pressure up from the PRV connection as well as the city water?

My experience is that's a bit of a challenge getting all the water out of the WH even with the plug removed, when pumping from the CW connection.
Atwood says that any water left below the drain plug opening can harmlessly freeze. For the last 17 years, that has proven true for me.
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Old 03-18-2016, 01:00 PM   #32
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[Siegmann: Atwood says that any water left below the drain plug opening can harmlessly freeze. For the last 17 years, that has proven true for me.]

Siegmann, good to know thanks!

As for the plug I use a long socket with a 5” or so extension. Using both together allows me to keep it all in alignment as I slowly turn the extension by hand to get it started. After a few complete turns I add the ratchet and finish. As for the tape, it’s a personal preference but I find it easier to use the tube of Teflon.

I should also add that I’ve stayed with the plug system as opposed to a petcock etc, as I plan to flush the tank at winterization, and it appears that the alternatives, while very convenient, would require removal for the tank flush.

Winterization…I have (successfully) winterized twice using the CW connection. However I seem to end up with some residual water ether in the WH itself or the lines at the LP (supply/dist???) Hard to tell where the gurgling sound is coming from. Both winterizations, I finally noticed that if I turned off the air supply side at the FWD LP for a few seconds then open it, that it would flush more water out the drains. I didn’t do this with the hot distribution line since it was essentially unreachable and hard against the bottom of the WH. I did this 6 or 7 times and finally all the gurgling was gone. Was it water in the lines or in the WH? Nor sure.

This all may become academic since the dealer under warranty replaced both LP drains recently and also adjusted as requested the connection from the WH supply to the LP drain for gravity flow. (See earlier posts

Original post
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f516...127845-30.html # 408

after LP replacement and gravity flow tweak
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f516...127845-41.html # 567

[OTRA1: Am I missing something?]

Peter you’re not missing anything and agree....one connection point should be sufficient. I’m still thinking of the CW connection as the main point for winterization, but was intrigued by the WH connection. I was just thinking of pushing air from a different direction…if it helps....and that remains to be seen.


If the new LP’s and gravity don’t resolve the issue, I may try adding the WH air connection to the process.


Bob
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Old 03-18-2016, 04:12 PM   #33
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Bob I think that with your reconfigured lines under the dinette, you may have less of the gurgling problem, but who knows. What air pressure did you run when you winterized? I stayed around 30 but the owners manual allows a higher pressure I believe, so next time maybe try a higher pressure, and that will remove the standing water which is causing the gurgling? I stayed with a low pressure being conservative, because of the hidden lines behind/under the shower. Don't want to have to find them . . .

The AS quality control appears so random in recent model years, that your lines under the shower may also not drain by gravity? Also, who knows if all the connections were done correctly and could withstand a higher air pressure?

I was about to "summerize" but now the NWS is calling for frost and 3-5" of snow over the weekend.

Yikes . . .

Sunday is the Equinox so hopefully next week we will see Spring in her full splendor. . .
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Old 03-18-2016, 06:57 PM   #34
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I once blew out the water lines in my off the grid cabin. Twice. Next spring, when I returned, I opened my low-point drain in the crawl space and a couple of tablespoons of water drained out. All of my plumbing was sloped to that valve position. I believe that the water condensed out of the moisture laden air in the lines as the temperature dropped that winter. Don't know for sure.

So I feel more comfortable pumping antifreeze for my Airstream. I make sure to use the glycol, and not alcohol based one. The latter has a nasty bitterant added. The former leaves no after-taste in the water lines after just a little bit of flushing.
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Old 03-19-2016, 04:15 AM   #35
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. . . The former leaves no after-taste in the water lines after just a little bit of flushing.
Aren't you assuming that you could in fact taste all poisonous materials?

I would not be surprised if the "no after-taste" water in your lines still contains traces of poisonous anti-freeze. Hope you don't consume or cook with that water.

Why take that risk when a proper winterization with air pressure obviates the need to use antifreeze?



PS -- The fact that regular antifreeze cannot be tasted is why so many dogs and cats die after drinking it, when humans carelessly leave it out in open containers of some kind. [edit -- and racoons, squirrels, and so forth . . . ]

PS2 -- Thanks for the comment about the water heater accomodating a bit of standing water in the bottom for the winter. Why a dog's water bowl is usually curved at the bottom . . .
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Old 03-19-2016, 08:38 AM   #36
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[QUOTE=OTRA15;1763631]Regarding winterization (the kind that does not use antifreeze in the water supply lines at all), why hook up air pressure to the water heater tank, when the basic hook up to the city water supply inlet will do the trick in one operation? Granted you have to move around and open and close various faucets and low point drains a few times, including the water heater drain plug. But why repeat the same operation just at the water heater?

Am I missing something?


[/QUOTE


I forgot to by-pass the HWT the first Season.....It's now the first operation done for Winter.

After putting the tank valves in isolate mode I open the drain & blo.......I do it to help prevent scale build-up, & to remove as much water as possible from the tank.

POI...two Seasons ago while Winterizing, I had the occasion to jack up the street side after the FW tank had "drained" while level, the ball valve was still open, it continued to put water on the ground for 3/4hr.



Bob
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:33 AM   #37
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Thanks Bob Cross,

You may not have seen the discussions Bob [CruizinDux] and I have had about winterization on other threads, but we both like to avoid using any antifreeze at all (except in the waste traps). Thus, gravity and air pressure are the winterization tools. Your water heater add-ons are certainly great for making sure it is free of water.

Regarding the fresh water tank, yes, given that they mostly have flat bottoms, it is possible that some water may remain even with the tank drain valve open. That is not a problem IMO if it freezes, as what is basically a flat sheet of ice sitting on the bottom of the tank cannot generate much side force as it expands to push on the sidewalls of the tank. Like a large very flat and thin ice cube . . . no worries . . .

Peter
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:41 AM   #38
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Thanks Bob Cross,

You may not have seen the discussions Bob [CruzinDux] and I have had about winterization on other threads, but we both like to avoid using any antifreeze at all (except in the waste traps). Thus, gravity and air pressure are the winterization tools. Your water heater add-ons are certainly great for making sure it is water-free.
Peter
Sorry for such a basic question but the second time I did air-only this winter. I didn't use the HWH by-pass. I figured I would blow all of the water out and the HWH by-pass is used only to limit the quantity of anti-freeze used. Did I miss something crucial?
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:00 AM   #39
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No, Tom, you did not miss anything crucial in my opinion. Yes, the water heater bypass set up is for limiting the amount of anti-freeze used when filling the plumbing lines.

Peter

PS -- And welcome to the forum!
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:05 AM   #40
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Tom, the only possible problem would be the crossover line going to the bypass valve. Unless you open the bypass valve while blowing out there could be water in the deadleg above the valve. If this freezes you may need to replace that short section.
A bigger problem would be if it froze and you don't check it in the spring. You may have a small leak that goes unnoticed until the floor is wet.
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:09 AM   #41
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Thanks mark for the heads up, not sure I did that, so I will watch when I "summerize."

Peter
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Old 03-19-2016, 01:19 PM   #42
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[QUOTE=OTRA15;1764282]Bob...... What air pressure did you run when you winterized? I stayed around 30 but the owners manual allows a higher pressure I believe, so next time maybe try a higher pressure...... ]

For the last W's I used a 12V inflator (since I have no power at storage) and the gauge showed 34 to start. The pressure I expect is fine but it may not provide sufficient flow. I now have a 5 gal twin tank compressor so that will all change. I just need to bring Blue home to do it.

[The AS quality control appears so random in recent model years, that your lines under the shower may also not drain by gravity?]

uhh spot on. I do open all LP's and faucets to begin with...nose up..nose down to get as much water out as possible, before I connect the air, so pressure buildup it less of a concern. I'll set the new system at 40 probably. I do believe the new plumbing will help too.

[I was about to "summerize" but now the NWS is calling for frost and 3-5" of snow over the weekend. Yikes . . . ]

Burrrrritos for so late in the year. You must be chomping at the bit with summerize fever. Like you said, it's just around the corner.

stay warm

Bob
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