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11-16-2007, 01:03 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Missouri City
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,233
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New water pump-? fresh water tank
OK I have taken out the old PAR pump from my 1976 31' center bath A/S and gotten down to the fresh water tank opening where the hose connects from the outside fill position. Its probably been 20 years since the fresh water tank was used. I took off the fitting and can see down in the tank. There is some water, not much, in the tank and I can see what appears to be dirt and maybe light mold. As I understand there is no way to drain the tank other than with the pump. I had hoped to be able to clean it up before turning on the pump and maybe clogging up the filter a few times. Any thoughts
Thanks
Don
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11-16-2007, 02:27 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
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Two thoughts worth every cent you paid for them
My much newer A/S has a drain underneath for hot and cold water - surely yours does too. Wouldn't it drain the fresh tank if you opened these and drove the A/S over some bumpy roads?
Or of course there's always a siphon. Buy some clear plastic tubing small enough to fit down the fill hole and suck away until you see the cruddy water coming, then drop it to the ground.
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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11-16-2007, 03:34 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1976 25' Caravanner
Vintage Kin Owner
Campton
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,113
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Mine didn't have a drain originally either . It's not hard to put one in . Under the trailer in the center of the water tank is a square steel plate with a 1/2 " bolt . Remove this plate and you'll find a 1/2 " black hose . This hose is the feed from the tank to the pump . Cut the hose and install a T with a drain valve . Now you can empty the tank without the pump . You definatly want to sanitize the tank and pipes . Good luck
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11-16-2007, 03:41 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Don, the drain in my Safari is configure liked Ticki2's drain. However, my Overlander, Sovereign, and Caravel all have a drain in the well under the sink. Look carefully next to or in the same line as the pump takeup line. The 70's Airstreams all seemed to have a very small valve, maybe 1/4" inside diameter, for draining this tank. Drain time was on the order of hours. I've managed to concoct bigger lines and valves in order to drain faster and to remove things like small clumps of mold. The original valves were so small they would definitely clog if anything of any size was inside the tank.
In the Caravel there was no room for a valve, so I put a "T" in the line with a pipe pointing down that extended just below the belly skin. I cap that line with a screw-on cap, so it's a bit of a pain to reach under and have to take the cap of in order to drain, but it's now a 1/2" real drain line.
Zep
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11-17-2007, 02:46 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Missouri City
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,233
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The pump is in but have some problems - need help.
OK I have the pimp in and connected to power and it runs. I have attached the inlet hose from my tank and then hooked up short hose with an faucet on the discharge side with a hose to the outside of the trailer. I want to clean the tank before hooking up to my trailer water lines.
I put some water in the tank and flipped the switch. The pump comes on and water comes out the hose to the outside but its spitting and sputtering like air in the lines. Even after running for a while. No sign of leaks at the pump. My though is that I have a leak in the intake hose under the tank and it can't get primed. Any thoughts
Thanks Don
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11-17-2007, 05:44 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Don, I believe you're right about the intake having a leak. I hope it's not a crack in the plastic right at the fitting. Fill the tank with more water and see if you can find a leak down near the tank.
Zep
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11-17-2007, 06:31 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1976 25' Caravanner
Vintage Kin Owner
Campton
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,113
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More than likely the suction line from tank to pump has a hairline crack , especially since you said the lines were frozen at least once . Attach a rope to one end before you pull it out so you will have a pull line for the new one . First thing to do is double check all the connections and make sure they are tight , it doesn't take much of a leak on the suction side.
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11-18-2007, 07:21 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Missouri City
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,233
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would this work
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticki2
More than likely the suction line from tank to pump has a hairline crack , especially since you said the lines were frozen at least once . Attach a rope to one end before you pull it out so you will have a pull line for the new one . First thing to do is double check all the connections and make sure they are tight , it doesn't take much of a leak on the suction side.
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I am going to check all of the connections today. But if they are ok, how do I get to the other end of the suction line to disconnect it and pull it out with a rope attached. Can I do this by taking off the square steel plate under the trailer. Will this expose where the suction line connects to the tank?
I do not see any leaking under the trailer even with water in the tank. You would think if there is a hair line crack in the hose under the tank it would leak. If all else fails can I drill a hole in the top of the tank next to the inlet hose and then insert a section of Pex tubing down along the inside bottom of the tank and use this as the suction line to the pump. I guess the problem would be sealing the spot where the Pex enters the tank.
Don
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11-18-2007, 07:52 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1976 25' Caravanner
Vintage Kin Owner
Campton
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,113
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Yes , removing the steel plate will expose the other end of the hose where it connects to the tank . The leak may not look like much more than condensation . The hose is old and prone to dry-rot , especially at the connections where the clamps are. Had this on mine last year , didn't replace the hose yet , just cut off an inch and reclamp. This is also where I installed a drain valve. Depending on where your pump is located this hose should not be very long , maybe 3 ft . If you can move it back and forth it should pull right out. The replacement hose needs to be stiff enough not to crush under suction.
I would not put any new holes in the tank.
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11-18-2007, 09:05 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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I've had several cracks in hoses that didn't leak just sitting there full of water, but as soon as the suction started, they leaked air in like crazy. I guess air has a lower surface tension than water...
Zep
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11-18-2007, 12:12 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1976 25' Caravanner
Vintage Kin Owner
Campton
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again
My much newer A/S has a drain underneath for hot and cold water - surely yours does too. Wouldn't it drain the fresh tank if you opened these and drove the A/S over some bumpy roads?
Or of course there's always a siphon. Buy some clear plastic tubing small enough to fit down the fill hole and suck away until you see the cruddy water coming, then drop it to the ground.
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I think those valves are for draining the pipes above the floor , at least on mine they are . Don't believe they will drain the fresh water tank.
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11-18-2007, 03:52 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Missouri City
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
I've had several cracks in hoses that didn't leak just sitting there full of water, but as soon as the suction started, they leaked air in like crazy. I guess air has a lower surface tension than water...
Zep
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I cut off a small section from the pump end of the intake hose and reconnected everything and still the same sputtering problem, air in the line. So I disconnected the hose and then connected a clear hose that I had and put the other end in the water tank. Turned on the pump and a steady stream of water.
So there must be problems down under the tank with my hose. Is it possible to take the square metal piece off from the bottom, disconnect the hose and then pull it out with a new section of hose connected to one end. If so which end.
Thanks Don
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11-18-2007, 05:03 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Yes, take the bolt out and the metal plate will drop down.
Unfortunately I can't help further, as I have not closely inspected how the hose ties into the tank. However, just knowing that the hose travels under the tank, I'd disconnect it at the tank end and then push on it JUST A LITTLE to see how easily it moves. If it seems like it's a clear shot, I'd feed new hose in from the open plate end, then if you have a helper, he/she can grab it when it appears in the cavity under the sink and help pull additional length up to where your pump is.
You're going to take this risk on your own--I'd hate to advise you to push or pull in one direction and you wind up not being able to get the hose to go all the way through
Others have recommended that you attach the new hose to the old hose and use it to pull the new hose through. I don't know.
Never-the-less, once you get the hose through to both sides (tank fitting and pump), make sure you insert a "T" fitting in the hose in the vicinity of access exposed by the metal plate, then a short length of tube from the "T" to the tank fitting. Put a cap on the "T" and now you've got a way to drain the tank. I've been contemplating putting an inline valve in the same location, that is somehow accessible through the plate, so that I can just open the valve without removing the plate in order to drain the tank. Haven't quite figured that out yet.
Good luck.
Zep
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11-18-2007, 05:15 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1976 25' Caravanner
Vintage Kin Owner
Campton
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,113
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The hose is connected to the tank with a hose clamp. Remove the plate and things will become clearer.
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11-19-2007, 04:50 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Missouri City
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,233
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I will try and check this out on Tuesday and take some pics.
Thanks, Don
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12-10-2007, 08:19 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Missouri City
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,233
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New question
I have tried to remove the bolt that holds the metal plate under the trailer but it won't budge. Rusted. So I proceeded with a fallback plan until I can have my A/S services guys take a look at this the next time I take in. Here's what I did I came up with a means of inserting a section of PEX tubing directly into the fresh water tank through the connection where the tank is filled with water. I will take some pictures later. The pump works perfect and I have the output connected to a hose in connection for testing and cleaning before I connect to the trailer water system.
As I had mentioned the water pump in the trailer has not worked from the time that I got the trailer 8 years ago. I replaced all of the water system with PEX and ran a line to the water pump with a shutoff valve to be available when I got around to replacing the pump. A question, when I connect the pump to my water system what prevents the tank from being filled when connected to city water. Does the pump work as a check valve or do I need to install a check valve?
Thanks Don
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12-10-2007, 01:37 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1976 25' Caravanner
Vintage Kin Owner
Campton
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adonh
I have tried to remove the bolt that holds the metal plate under the trailer but it won't budge. Rusted. So I proceeded with a fallback plan until I can have my A/S services guys take a look at this the next time I take in. Here's what I did I came up with a means of inserting a section of PEX tubing directly into the fresh water tank through the connection where the tank is filled with water. I will take some pictures later. The pump works perfect and I have the output connected to a hose in connection for testing and cleaning before I connect to the trailer water system.
As I had mentioned the water pump in the trailer has not worked from the time that I got the trailer 8 years ago. I replaced all of the water system with PEX and ran a line to the water pump with a shutoff valve to be available when I got around to replacing the pump. A question, when I connect the pump to my water system what prevents the tank from being filled when connected to city water. Does the pump work as a check valve or do I need to install a check valve?
Thanks Don
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That could be a problem , that plate is the only access to those connections unless you drop the whole tank . I'm not even sure that's possible without removing that bolt . You might try putting some heat to the bolt , like with a torch . Try tightening and loosening to see if it will move . You could also cut the head off so you can remove the plate . Then you will be able to get some penetrating oil on the threads. It's going to take some time and persistence, go slow . Good luck
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12-10-2007, 02:26 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Missouri City
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,233
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I think I will wait until I take it for service and let them look at. They all the tools and a service bay with a pit where they can get to the underside. In the meantime I am pumping water with my improvised connection. I took a 1/1/2" plastic sink drain pipe and cut to about 3" long with the fitting that would normally attach to the under side of a sink. I then drilled a 5/8' hole in the pipe. I could then attach this to the 1 /1/2 fitting on the tank and insert a section of PEX about 15" long down into the tank with a PEX fitting on the outside end. I then attached a new supply line from the pump to tank. Since this is the pressure side I used the stainless steel spring material that was in the old line to keep it from collapsing. I then attached the original 90 degree fitting that was on the take with the flexible hose to the new input spout. I used some "Goop" clear glue to seal around the hole where the PEX was. No leaks in the fill process and it is really very sturdy.
I still have the question on if I need to have a check-valve in place while connected to city water.
Don
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12-10-2007, 03:30 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1976 25' Caravanner
Vintage Kin Owner
Campton
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,113
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I still have the question on if I need to have a check-valve in place while connected to city water.
Don
[/quote]
The check valve is usually built into the pump . Having said that , I have found that on my original Par pump it will weep back very slightly . I use my fresh water tank as safe water as I know it's source and condition. I installed a manual shut-off between the pump and the tank so I could be sure not to contaminate the tank with unknown campground water if I thought there was a problem.I also sanitize the tank periodically
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