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Old 11-19-2007, 05:50 PM   #15
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1976 31' Sovereign
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Question

I will try and check this out on Tuesday and take some pics.

Thanks, Don
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:19 AM   #16
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1976 31' Sovereign
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Question New question

I have tried to remove the bolt that holds the metal plate under the trailer but it won't budge. Rusted. So I proceeded with a fallback plan until I can have my A/S services guys take a look at this the next time I take in. Here's what I did I came up with a means of inserting a section of PEX tubing directly into the fresh water tank through the connection where the tank is filled with water. I will take some pictures later. The pump works perfect and I have the output connected to a hose in connection for testing and cleaning before I connect to the trailer water system.
As I had mentioned the water pump in the trailer has not worked from the time that I got the trailer 8 years ago. I replaced all of the water system with PEX and ran a line to the water pump with a shutoff valve to be available when I got around to replacing the pump. A question, when I connect the pump to my water system what prevents the tank from being filled when connected to city water. Does the pump work as a check valve or do I need to install a check valve?
Thanks Don
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adonh
I have tried to remove the bolt that holds the metal plate under the trailer but it won't budge. Rusted. So I proceeded with a fallback plan until I can have my A/S services guys take a look at this the next time I take in. Here's what I did I came up with a means of inserting a section of PEX tubing directly into the fresh water tank through the connection where the tank is filled with water. I will take some pictures later. The pump works perfect and I have the output connected to a hose in connection for testing and cleaning before I connect to the trailer water system.
As I had mentioned the water pump in the trailer has not worked from the time that I got the trailer 8 years ago. I replaced all of the water system with PEX and ran a line to the water pump with a shutoff valve to be available when I got around to replacing the pump. A question, when I connect the pump to my water system what prevents the tank from being filled when connected to city water. Does the pump work as a check valve or do I need to install a check valve?
Thanks Don
That could be a problem , that plate is the only access to those connections unless you drop the whole tank . I'm not even sure that's possible without removing that bolt . You might try putting some heat to the bolt , like with a torch . Try tightening and loosening to see if it will move . You could also cut the head off so you can remove the plate . Then you will be able to get some penetrating oil on the threads. It's going to take some time and persistence, go slow . Good luck
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:26 PM   #18
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I think I will wait until I take it for service and let them look at. They all the tools and a service bay with a pit where they can get to the underside. In the meantime I am pumping water with my improvised connection. I took a 1/1/2" plastic sink drain pipe and cut to about 3" long with the fitting that would normally attach to the under side of a sink. I then drilled a 5/8' hole in the pipe. I could then attach this to the 1 /1/2 fitting on the tank and insert a section of PEX about 15" long down into the tank with a PEX fitting on the outside end. I then attached a new supply line from the pump to tank. Since this is the pressure side I used the stainless steel spring material that was in the old line to keep it from collapsing. I then attached the original 90 degree fitting that was on the take with the flexible hose to the new input spout. I used some "Goop" clear glue to seal around the hole where the PEX was. No leaks in the fill process and it is really very sturdy.

I still have the question on if I need to have a check-valve in place while connected to city water.

Don
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Old 12-10-2007, 04:30 PM   #19
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I still have the question on if I need to have a check-valve in place while connected to city water.

Don
[/quote]

The check valve is usually built into the pump . Having said that , I have found that on my original Par pump it will weep back very slightly . I use my fresh water tank as safe water as I know it's source and condition. I installed a manual shut-off between the pump and the tank so I could be sure not to contaminate the tank with unknown campground water if I thought there was a problem.I also sanitize the tank periodically
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:04 AM   #20
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1984 27' Sovereign
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Question Similar problem

I hope it is OK for me to jump in on this thread. I’m looking for an answer to the very similar problems we’ve encountered on our ’84 Sovereign, a 27’ side bath.

We’ve never used the water tank or pump. The previous owner apparently seldom or never used the fresh water pump and full timed for years at parks with full hook ups, several places with freezing temperatures.

I inspected the fresh water screen strainer/filter removed it and cleaned it. I also pulled and cleaned the long coil spring looking things from inside the suction line at each end of the strainer. The suction line and strainer looked moldy and dirty so we filled the water tank with the water and bleach mixture recommended in our owner’s manual and factory service manual.

The pump fired right up but would not readily cycle off. We’re former boaters and are familiar with the sound of a water pump cycling when water is drawn from the system. But the pump in our trailer runs for five minutes or more before shutting off. The clear strainer/filter never fills all the way up with water, but we have decent water volume at the kitchen and bath. Fresh water is leaking from somewhere at the fresh water tank. It didn’t leak until we filled the water tank but looking below the trailer I see that it has leaked before.

Does this sound like a leak in the suction side of the pump line?

Also, our pressure regulator is located in the roadside storage compartment next to the water heater. It is obvious that something was removed from the plumbing line between the regulator and the city water connection as a piece of tubing was spliced in. Was this some sort of check valve? When we run the water pump it pressurizes the city water connection. (We have to plug the city water inlet or all the fresh water in the tank is pumped out through it. ) There’s no other check valve that I can find in the plumbing, but somehow when we’re connected to city water our fresh water tank does not fill up. I assume the pump acts as a check valve to prevent this.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemy55
I hope it is OK for me to jump in on this thread. I’m looking for an answer to the very similar problems we’ve encountered on our ’84 Sovereign, a 27’ side bath.

We’ve never used the water tank or pump. The previous owner apparently seldom or never used the fresh water pump and full timed for years at parks with full hook ups, several places with freezing temperatures.

I inspected the fresh water screen strainer/filter removed it and cleaned it. I also pulled and cleaned the long coil spring looking things from inside the suction line at each end of the strainer. The suction line and strainer looked moldy and dirty so we filled the water tank with the water and bleach mixture recommended in our owner’s manual and factory service manual.

The pump fired right up but would not readily cycle off. We’re former boaters and are familiar with the sound of a water pump cycling when water is drawn from the system. But the pump in our trailer runs for five minutes or more before shutting off. The clear strainer/filter never fills all the way up with water, but we have decent water volume at the kitchen and bath. Fresh water is leaking from somewhere at the fresh water tank. It didn’t leak until we filled the water tank but looking below the trailer I see that it has leaked before.

Does this sound like a leak in the suction side of the pump line?

Also, our pressure regulator is located in the roadside storage compartment next to the water heater. It is obvious that something was removed from the plumbing line between the regulator and the city water connection as a piece of tubing was spliced in. Was this some sort of check valve? When we run the water pump it pressurizes the city water connection. (We have to plug the city water inlet or all the fresh water in the tank is pumped out through it. ) There’s no other check valve that I can find in the plumbing, but somehow when we’re connected to city water our fresh water tank does not fill up. I assume the pump acts as a check valve to prevent this.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

I would say that you are correct with your assumptions.

The pump acts as a check valve to prvent city water from going into the tank.

There should be a check valve where you found the hose splice to prevent the pump water from going out the city connection.

The coil spring in the hose is to prevent it from collapsing with suction

The pump staying on is probably a small leak in the suction line . ( Did it have a hard time getting prime?)
It could also be a faulty pressure switch on the pump.
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Old 03-26-2008, 02:11 PM   #22
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1984 27' Sovereign
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Once again, the fine people on this forum have helped me out…
The cycling pump issue was caused by a small leak in the suction line. Upon further investigation we found that our pump was showing signs of age so we replaced it and added a Shure Flo accumulator tank into the system. Now we have a quieter pump that runs less frequently. We replaced the flex lines, too, but did not reinstall the stainless coil springs inside the hoses. They seem to work fine without them.

We installed a city water check valve, SOB style, where the hose fitting was.

Our ’84 Sovereign has hot and cold water PEX T-handle drain valves installed in a chase below the kitchen sink. This chase goes all the way through the floor – you can see the back side of the belly pan access cover if you peer through.

We also found a fresh water tank drain plug behind the belly pan access cover. The plug was gooped into place with ˝ a tube of white silicone. We cleaned it and reinstalled with Teflon tape, followed by Teflon paste. Now it doesn’t leak.

I hope this information can help someone else.
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Old 03-26-2008, 02:59 PM   #23
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Glad you got it fixed . Everything we learn and share helps someone else , thanks for posting results.
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Old 04-14-2008, 09:47 PM   #24
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Water line woes

When is the lawsuit over the Polybutylene (gray and black tubing) used for fresh water supply deadline? I read about it (searched internet) but am unsure of it's meaning pertaining to travel trailers and motorhomes. Seems it depend on the installation, usage and whether damage was done. Doesn't cover just replacing prior to failure...from what I can interpret.

Polybutylene pipe is a plastic developed for use as a plumbing product by Shell Oil Company. There are a few problems associated with polybutylene. These problems are associated with homes built from 1/1/78 to 7/31/95. Most areas have banned the use of polybutylene. There are some class action law suits against the manufacturers as well as the installers and are trying to settle the damages. One has been settled for 950 million dollars and the fund will remain open until the year 2009 or 16 years after date of installation, which ever is soonest. For information on claims call; 800-356-3496, they will send you a form and if you qualify an Inspector will be sent to evaluate the conditions. to make a claim there does have to be a leak of failure of the product. For commercial claims or multi unit dwellings contact 800-876-4698.
Exterior; Big Blue, Vanguard Claim must be within 11 years of installation The supply line from the outside is sometimes referred to as "Big Blue, and may be identified by its light blue color. This type of polybutylene is susceptible to shearing at the foundation wall due to ground settlement outside. One recommendation is to sleeve the pipe through the wall for additional reinforcement. Another recommendation is to simply replace it. The plastic is also reported to break down due to elevated levels of chlorine, there has not been any established time frame for this to occur.
INTERIOR; Vanguard Claim must be within 13 years (acetyl fittings), 16 years (metal fittings) of installation Interior polybutylene is identified by its gray color. When this product first came out the ends were connected by metal barbed connectors, that were held in place with a copper crimped band. The metal fittings were overall adequate. Later plastic barbed fittings were introduced. These fittings were prone to cracking off and failing, due to crimping of the copper or aluminum bands, and could allow water to free flow. The plastic fittings may develop hairline cracks from the pressure of the crimping and should be replaced with approved metal fittings. In some areas highly acid water can deteriorate copper pipe in a relatively short time, or burst due to freezing. Polybutylene is virtually unaffected by these conditions. Why don't they pull copper off the market as well? Polybutylene has a good flow rate, is more impervious to freeze, and has fewer connections. We should be aware of its problems but know its strengths as well. *Note: Some information has been taken from Cox vs. Shell Oil, et al.
Has anyone sought replacement from AS for using this product or applied for reimbursement from the Class Action Law Suit?
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Old 06-19-2008, 08:00 PM   #25
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thanks, this should motivate me to start work on water pump on my 80 AS. the pump is running, but water is Not come out at faucets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Sovereign View Post
Once again, the fine people on this forum have helped me out…
The cycling pump issue was caused by a small leak in the suction line. Upon further investigation we found that our pump was showing signs of age so we replaced it and added a Shure Flo accumulator tank into the system. Now we have a quieter pump that runs less frequently. We replaced the flex lines, too, but did not reinstall the stainless coil springs inside the hoses. They seem to work fine without them.

We installed a city water check valve, SOB style, where the hose fitting was.

Our ’84 Sovereign has hot and cold water PEX T-handle drain valves installed in a chase below the kitchen sink. This chase goes all the way through the floor – you can see the back side of the belly pan access cover if you peer through.

We also found a fresh water tank drain plug behind the belly pan access cover. The plug was gooped into place with ˝ a tube of white silicone. We cleaned it and reinstalled with Teflon tape, followed by Teflon paste. Now it doesn’t leak.

I hope this information can help someone else.
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