Excel tankless/ventless hot water heater reviews appreciated

[Jeremy9107]

Has anyone purchased and used the Excel tankless hot water heater? Looking for feedback as am very interested in replacing current Atwood. Is it truly ventless? And does it work as advertised?



http://excelonlinestore.com/tankless...-exchanger-231

[Adventure.AS]

One problem with ventless, especially in a small space like a trailer, is that all of the humidity from the combustion will end up in the trailer. We have enough trouble controlling humidity in cool weather from just breathing, LOL : ) .

[Venturewest]

I am considering that exact model. I am sure you have seen the many positive reviews. There are also quite a few youtube videos on the heater. There is a member in an Airstream FB group who recommended them lately. I messaged her about specifics and this is what she wrote:

"On the Casita forums, there have been a few people who've added switches to an active vent which are tied to the Excel's igniter. That way, when the water heater turns on, the vent would automatically start at the same time. Honestly, I'm just not that concerned about it. I've rarely had the water heater on for more than a few minutes, even when showering, so it's putting off way less CO2 than the stove would be when cooking. As a safeguard, I do open the cabinet when using the shower."

She loves hers. She has a good point in that an on demand water heater is not going to run much at all. I like the idea of an active vent, just to keep humidity down. I contacted Excel and they sent me a pdf of the installation manual. It has clearances. They actually recommend active venting.

Here is what the Excel rep wrote me about ventilation:

"Beside the vent grill , you will need an active ventilation to circulate fresh air into the encolosure and out with the hot air.

You need active ventilation system installed , like in a Boat.

http://myboatsgear.com/2016/12 /27/boat-ventilation/

You can place an active ventilation in the enclosed casework , using a small fan below sucking fresh air and another one above blowing the exhaust hot air
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.htm l?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m 570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.X12+ volt+fan.TRS0&_nkw=12+volt+fan &_sacat=0"

Hope that helps.
Ron

[pdavitt]

Just checked the website and these water heaters have an ODS.

"A Vent-Free appliance can be installed inside and does not require cumbersome and costly installation of flues and ductwork because it is outfitted with state of the art ODS (Oxygen Depletion Safety shutoff device)."

I live at 5,400 ft above MSL and some ODS equipped gas appliances have trouble operating at higher elevations. By trouble I mean that the appliance will not turn on.
Check to see if Excel publishes a max operating altitude for their heater.

Pat

[Jeremy9107]

Pat. I believe I saw max altitude of 9,200 ft for this model Excel. One of the benefits I like cause most other models I saw were limited for the reason you state.

Adventure.AS. Agree with your concern. Don't like humidity either. What do you think of Venturewest response. Limited use time maybe negates that concern? Thanks for that info Adventure.AS. Seems like you are a go. Where are you purchasing it? I called company rep and they are all out of stock now. New shipment next Friday though.

[rdb504]

About a year ago I installed a Girard tankless RV water heater, and love the fact that we are not carrying 10 extra gallons of water, and that as long as you have propane and water, you're good. It takes a bit of getting used to using, and adjusting water temp with flow, rather than mixing with cold.
As far as the venting issue your post spoke about, mine mounted in the same place as the original heater, and vents outside through the cover. The blower starts as soon as water flows, and continues a short time after water glow stops, very similar to your gas furnace.

[rmkrum]

Have a PrecisionTemp 500 series. Mounted in essentially the same hole as my old Atwood 6 gallon. It vents OUTSIDE like it should. It provides hot water continuously, even when my family takes ‘hotel showers’ when we are hooked up.

Ventless systems could cause issues even if they supposedly shut down if oxygen gets low. They dump moisture, odors, heat and combustion products into the space they are mounted in. Not a good idea, IMHO.

Get one that’s really designed for an RV instead of jury-rigging ventilation or taking other chances with your life....doing it the right way, instead of the “cheap” way is far safer. The outfit that says it’s “just fine” has no skin or lives in the game. Adequate ventilation is hard to provide inside a well sealed Airstream. In a house, it’s still dicey.

I would not trust an ODS device (built by the lowest bidder) with the lives of my family and my pets. Vent combustion products safely outside, and make sure the propane, fire, and CO alarms inside the living space are working properly.

[OTRA15]

Well said!

[Venturewest]

Originally Posted by Jeremy9107

Pat. I believe I saw max altitude of 9,200 ft for this model Excel. One of the benefits I like cause most other models I saw were limited for the reason you state.

Adventure.AS. Agree with your concern. Don't like humidity either. What do you think of Venturewest response. Limited use time maybe negates that concern? Thanks for that info Adventure.AS. Seems like you are a go. Where are you purchasing it? I called company rep and they are all out of stock now. New shipment next Friday though.

Camping World has them on sale for $194 right now. It says they are in stock. You may beat me to it if you order one soon. Let me know how it works for you. The max elevation may be a deal killer for me. I am just getting started at 9200' here in Colorado. Haha.

[Tbeck11931]

What’s the issue with the elevation? 9200’ is the limit where the burner works?

[pdavitt]

There are two issues with gas (propane) powered devices with ODS sensors. Both have to do with the percentage of oxygen in the air. The rough numbers are:

Sealevel - 20.9% O2
5,000 ft. - 17.3% O2
10,000 ft - 14.3% O2

1. The ODS sensor detects the percentage of oxygen in the air and turns the burner off if it is below a preset percentage. Lets say the ODS sensor is set at 15%, therefore some where between 5,000 ft and 10,000 ft the sensor will shut the burner down.

2. All gas appliances are less efficient at altitude. The less oxygen in the air, the less efficient they are.

Hope this helps,
Pat

[DBinSD]

How about just turn the main fan on and crack a window during use if you mounted it inside? Seems more prudent.

[Jeremy9107]

All. Well stated points.

Agree with rmkrum, keep it safe. You seem to be well informed. Are CO deaths common in RVs?

The Girard and PrecisionTemp units have good reviews from what I could tell. If goal is to reduce size of unit and eliminate vent however, these are not the right units. They conveniently fit into that space where the prior tank heater was though. Was looking for a smaller unit, and one that does not "need" to be vented.

DbinSD. Seems practical to do what you are saying. People who tent camp use propane heaters that basically vent out the top of the tent. I have had a catalytic heater in my Airstream for 5 years. Have it on all night with a roof vent cracked. Haven't had any fatalities yet with it sucking up O2 and sending off combustion products. Venturewest had a good point too. These tankless heaters are operational for only brief periods of time (ie duration of shower, washing dishes) maybe 5-10 minutes, then the combustion turns off. A stove, burning propane, is operational much longer than that and with more BTUs. Stoves do not need direct venting. They do not have low O2 sensors. Why? Wish I was an expert on this stuff. Biased right now only because I have my mind set on purchasing that Excel. Can always be talked out of it though.

[DBinSD]

The literature seems to indicate its plenty safe inside.
Common sense will only help the performance!

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by DBinSD

The literature seems to indicate its plenty safe inside.
. . .

Could please you post links for where you read that?

The link in the first post leads here:

http://excelonlinestore.com/tankless...-exchanger-231

. . . where it says:

"Perfect for Sailboats and Cabin Cruisers with active ventilation systems in place." [emphasis added]

Just below that statement is a link for technical info which leads only to a bunch of shopping links, without any technical information.

If they say that an "active ventilation system" is needed for boats, then one is also needed for an Airstream IMO. The ODS [Oxygen Depletion System] -- no matter how safe they say it is -- is no place to hang the hats of our family and friends!



Keep breathing . . .

[DBinSD]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Could please you post links for where you read that?

You decided to take the last statement out of the context. What is said BEFORE (Emphasis added ) what you quoted is:
"Infinite applications can be found for the extraordinary Excel tankless water heater. Our customers also use them for washing stalls, horse trailers, de-icing cars in the winter, outdoor camping, RV's, Motels, Small Roadside Restaurants and other situations where endless and economical water heating is required and water pressure is available at 10Psi."

Having also owned a cabin cruiser. I can say that the boats have MUCH LESS air intrusion and therefore would necessitate an active ventilation system. Just as they require a spark arrest and ventilation system in the engine compartment while your vehicle does not.

You are entitled to extrapolate whatever information you wish.

IMO, Based on the applications and the quote above, I read it as an RV does NOT require an active vent system where a "boat" does.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by DBinSD

. . .
I read it as an RV does NOT require an active vent system where a "boat" does.

Where is the logic in that, if they are equally airtight more or less?

Gambling with one's life based on the ODS seems crazy IMO.

Fine to agree to disagree.

[DBinSD]

They are no where close to equal. Gases can only escape upward in a boat. Not so in a vehicle/trailer.

The sense is, they listed the boats in a separate sentence, on their own, needing the vent. In other words, not part of the typical applications. See above.

Again, do as you will.

Too many people nay say out of ignorance. If you don’t like the idea, say so and move on. Just don’t say something is NOT intended for the area when it clearly is, by the Manufacturer W/O a power vent.

Like I said earlier, a little common sense will go a long way with this unit.

IMO there is no gamble.

[dbj216]

I just got rid of a tankless water heater in our house. It was power vented sure. The dumb thing was more complex and rather troublesome. It has flow sensors so it knows when someone asks for hot water. Then it has to ignite the burner, then it has to turn on the blower, then it has to heat the heat exchanger, and then it has to regulate the flame to maintain the desired output temp. We had to "descale" the water piping with vinegar every year through special valves. We had to clean the propane soot from the heat exchanger. I had three service calls on it just last year. I gave up.

The only advantage as I see it is it might use less propane. And yes, "hotel showers" which are nice but unnecessary. However, since it took about 2 minutes to draw hot water to the upstairs bathroom, I developed the habit of always turning on the hot faucet first even for a glass of water. So the water heater would ignite for a minute, and then shut down. My bad, but trying to save time as I didn't like waiting for a little hot water.

I have a good old fashioned tank water heater now. It is well insulated. I can draw hot water upstairs about twice as fast. And I use less water as I don't have to let it run waiting for hot water.

I would be a tough sell on a tankless water heater in my Airstream. I've collected "bad karma" on the things.

David

[rmkrum]

I have tankless at home (Bosch) and PrecisionTemp in the AS. No issues with either water heater.

Only problem I have ever had is that the batteries leaked and messed up the Bosch remote control—which never got used much.