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Old 03-13-2018, 11:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBinSD View Post
The literature seems to indicate its plenty safe inside.
. . .
Could please you post links for where you read that?

The link in the first post leads here:

http://excelonlinestore.com/tankless...-exchanger-231

. . . where it says:

"Perfect for Sailboats and Cabin Cruisers with active ventilation systems in place." [emphasis added]

Just below that statement is a link for technical info which leads only to a bunch of shopping links, without any technical information.

If they say that an "active ventilation system" is needed for boats, then one is also needed for an Airstream IMO. The ODS [Oxygen Depletion System] -- no matter how safe they say it is -- is no place to hang the hats of our family and friends!



Keep breathing . . .



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Old 03-13-2018, 11:55 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Could please you post links for where you read that?
You decided to take the last statement out of the context. What is said BEFORE (Emphasis added ) what you quoted is:
"Infinite applications can be found for the extraordinary Excel tankless water heater. Our customers also use them for washing stalls, horse trailers, de-icing cars in the winter, outdoor camping, RV's, Motels, Small Roadside Restaurants and other situations where endless and economical water heating is required and water pressure is available at 10Psi."

Having also owned a cabin cruiser. I can say that the boats have MUCH LESS air intrusion and therefore would necessitate an active ventilation system. Just as they require a spark arrest and ventilation system in the engine compartment while your vehicle does not.

You are entitled to extrapolate whatever information you wish.

IMO, Based on the applications and the quote above, I read it as an RV does NOT require an active vent system where a "boat" does.
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:32 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DBinSD View Post
. . .
I read it as an RV does NOT require an active vent system where a "boat" does.
Where is the logic in that, if they are equally airtight more or less?

Gambling with one's life based on the ODS seems crazy IMO.

Fine to agree to disagree.

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Old 03-13-2018, 06:14 PM   #18
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They are no where close to equal. Gases can only escape upward in a boat. Not so in a vehicle/trailer.

The sense is, they listed the boats in a separate sentence, on their own, needing the vent. In other words, not part of the typical applications. See above.

Again, do as you will.

Too many people nay say out of ignorance. If you don’t like the idea, say so and move on. Just don’t say something is NOT intended for the area when it clearly is, by the Manufacturer W/O a power vent.

Like I said earlier, a little common sense will go a long way with this unit.

IMO there is no gamble.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:32 PM   #19
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I just got rid of a tankless water heater in our house. It was power vented sure. The dumb thing was more complex and rather troublesome. It has flow sensors so it knows when someone asks for hot water. Then it has to ignite the burner, then it has to turn on the blower, then it has to heat the heat exchanger, and then it has to regulate the flame to maintain the desired output temp. We had to "descale" the water piping with vinegar every year through special valves. We had to clean the propane soot from the heat exchanger. I had three service calls on it just last year. I gave up.

The only advantage as I see it is it might use less propane. And yes, "hotel showers" which are nice but unnecessary. However, since it took about 2 minutes to draw hot water to the upstairs bathroom, I developed the habit of always turning on the hot faucet first even for a glass of water. So the water heater would ignite for a minute, and then shut down. My bad, but trying to save time as I didn't like waiting for a little hot water.

I have a good old fashioned tank water heater now. It is well insulated. I can draw hot water upstairs about twice as fast. And I use less water as I don't have to let it run waiting for hot water.

I would be a tough sell on a tankless water heater in my Airstream. I've collected "bad karma" on the things.

David
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:44 PM   #20
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I have tankless at home (Bosch) and PrecisionTemp in the AS. No issues with either water heater.

Only problem I have ever had is that the batteries leaked and messed up the Bosch remote control—which never got used much.
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Could please you post links for where you read that?

The link in the first post leads here:

http://excelonlinestore.com/tankless...-exchanger-231

. . . where it says:

"Perfect for Sailboats and Cabin Cruisers with active ventilation systems in place." [emphasis added]

Just below that statement is a link for technical info which leads only to a bunch of shopping links, without any technical information.

If they say that an "active ventilation system" is needed for boats, then one is also needed for an Airstream IMO. The ODS [Oxygen Depletion System] -- no matter how safe they say it is -- is no place to hang the hats of our family and friends!



Keep breathing . . .



I appreciate your concern for safety. Using a device that relies on an ODS has been proven to be pretty safe. They have been used in Europe for over 50 years. In the United States there has not been one documented death due to the failure of an ODS. That stat is according to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.

"Once appliances are in the U.S. marketplace, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is the primary safety “watchdog”, accumulating product safety data from numerous sources, and investigating and reporting the safety record of various product categories. What does CPSC data reveal about vent-free gas appliances? The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) has stated that it is not aware of any documented incident in the CPSC In-Depth Investigation (IDI) database of fatal CO poisoning associated with an ODS-equipped vent-free gas heating product. These appliances have earned an outstanding safety record. ",

Unfortunately there are many carbon monoxide related RV deaths due to LP burning appliances. So far all of these documented deaths have been failed direct-vent appliances.

The ODS is just the first line of defense against CO. You should still have a good CO alarm.

I really can't conceive how you could possibly kill your family and friends with this heater. It does not have a standing pilot. The combustion starts when the heater detects water flow. There is no danger of oxygen depletion when you are sleeping, even if the ODS and your CO alarm fail simultaneously, because there is no flame. The heater is rated at a max of 1.6 gallons per minute. My family of 5 can make 40 gallons of water last for 5 days. That is 8 gallons of water use per day. If you assume that 3/4 of the water us is hot water (which is a very liberal assumption) that is 6 gallons of hot water per day. At 1.6 gallons per minute that means this heater is going to run for 3.75 minutes split over several different uses during the day.

Do you really think you are going to kill anyone by running the water heater 20 or 30 seconds per time for 3.75 minutes per day? That would be assuming the ODS and your CO detector fails, and that there is no ventilation going on in the Airstream?

Long live our friends and family!
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:34 AM   #22
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Good debate. David, not sure if home use is comparable to RV use for these. Have to wait for existing water in lines to clear before hot water can exit faucet and those pipe runs in homes are much longer than in RV. Have read about draw back of cleaning so thanks for sharing that con. Thought I read somewhere that this excel unit has less maintenance requirements. Venturewest. Following your logic and makes sense. Sometimes I get so entangled in info that I forget this is a trailer, not a rocket ship where miscalculations at the 8th decimal might mean an explosion. Going to go with our experience on this one. For 5 years have had an old catalytic heater burning all through night with nothing but a roof vent cracked. No deaths thus far. This little Excel will burn much less with far less CO production.
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:00 PM   #23
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Don't mind me, I'm just an old curmudgeon. I now have a catalytic heater in the Overlander. My son uses one in his Globetrotter. I understand there is no combustion with these units, no CO generated. It's a chemical heat. Cracking a window of vent helps keep the moisture build up down.

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Old 03-14-2018, 07:51 PM   #24
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Well now you are going to make me research this catalytic heater. Assumed where there is propane burning there is CO. Guess my wife can sleep more than easily.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:56 PM   #25
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has anyone changed to a closed loop model
ie run a line back to the heater
or
just leave it as on -demand
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:52 PM   #26
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Running a loop back would be near impossible on a newer unit.
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Old 03-22-2018, 04:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Don't mind me, I'm just an old curmudgeon. I now have a catalytic heater in the Overlander. My son uses one in his Globetrotter. I understand there is no combustion with these units, no CO generated. It's a chemical heat. Cracking a window of vent helps keep the moisture build up down.

David
David, and the rest of the gang:

Catalytic heaters do, in fact BURN propane, consume oxygen, and create all the usual combustion products. They just don't generate visible flames...they also are required to have oxygen depletion shut-off valves, and can, under some rare circumstances create carbon monoxide, which is in fact dangerous/deadly.

Venting the living space, if you insist on using one of these is not merely a moisture build-up prevention issue, its MANDATORY for your safety and personal survival...you need the oxygen the heater is also using...

It's combustion, pure and simple..and needs to be treated as such. Don't risk your life by believing otherwise...
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Old 03-22-2018, 05:37 PM   #28
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David,
Don’t worry about those who sensationalize the facts for the sake of impact.

The unit is in fact safe for indoor use as intended. It is rarely on, compared to other h2o heaters thus will consume considerably less 02.
Pop a vent when showering and have no worries.
Don’t expect US residents to embrace European tech anytime soon. Even though they are 20yrs ahead of us.
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