Any PLUMBERS out there?? Pressure regulator, water pump questions

[SmokelessJoe]

Steelbird, Markdoane, azflycaster, anyone:

I have two 2-way valves and I’m trying to figure out how to by-pass my water heater using them.

I can’t undo the puzzle.

Can anyone help, perhaps with a sketch or photo?

(I have ONE 2 way in my 3/4” hydronic system and I have been able to figure that out. But when I try to figure using Two 2 Ways together in the water system, I get confused).

Somebody please help.


Thanks.


Sergei

[markdoane]

Sergei,

Not sure what you mean. Can you provide a photo of the 2-way valve? Normally you would use a couple of 3-way valves. If you want to do it with 2-ways, I think you would need at least three valves.

[SmokelessJoe]

Markdone:

Thanks for helping.

I have just noticed that the valves I am using for coolant and for water are NOT the same.

The yellow one is the valve that I’m going to use in my hydronic heating system. I can easily understand how it works.

My supplier calls it a two-way ball valve but said that some people call it a three-way valve. The coolant enters the top of the Tee and you direct the flow either to the right or to the left by twisting the handle.Only two outlets will be open at any time.

The blue one is what I bought for the water system. In one handle position ALL THREE outlets are open.In the other handle setting, one outlet is closed; two are open.

Can you see the handle stops on each type of valve?

Both handles seem to move 80 degrees but the stops on the yellow valve are 80 degrees apart and the stops on the blue water valve are 180 degrees.

Did I want a THREE WAY VALVE for my water system but got a TWO WAY because of what my hydronic supplier said about 2 Way/ Three Way??

Frankly, I can’t understand how either the configuration in either the yellow or the blue will allow me to make a by-pass for the water heater.

Help!!

Sergei

[SmokelessJoe]

Markdone:

I have just noticed that my invoice for the blue valves says 3 WAY ball valves.

Sergei

[markdoane]

Sergei,

I think your supplier is the only one calling it a 2-way. Most vendors call a 2-way a "stop" valve. It has two ways, open and closed.

Three way valves come in at least two different configuration. One is L-ported, like your yellow handled valve, the other is T-ported, like your blue valve.

The L-ported valve will divert the flow from the common port (center) to either the left, or to the right.

The T-ported valve will work the same as the L-ported in that it will direct flow from the center port to either the left or right. However, it will also allow all three ports to be connected, or for flow to go straight from left to right with the center port blocked off.

To plumb up your water heater, you need to connect the common port to the water lines. One side of the valve will go to and from the water heater, and the other side will be connected from one valve to the other.

This will work with either an L or a T ported valve. However, the L-ported valve is preferred because it will only work in either the water heater position or the bypass position. With the T ported valves it is possible to operate with the water heater and bypass lines both open at the same time, so you need to carefully mark the correct postions.

[SmokelessJoe]

Sergei,

I think your supplier is the only one calling it a 2-way. Most vendors call a 2-way a "stop" valve. It has two ways, open and closed.

Three way valves come in at least two different configuration. One is L-ported, like your yellow handled valve, the other is T-ported, like your blue valve.

The L-ported valve will divert the flow from the common port (center) to either the left, or to the right.

Right. That’s how my yellow one works.

The T-ported valve will work the same as the L-ported in that it will direct flow from the center port to either the left or right.

No. It will only divert to the right, the top common port facing away from you.

However, it will also allow all three ports to be connected, or for flow to go straight from left to right with the center port blocked off.

No. You cannot have the flow go left to right with the centre blocked. There are just two settings; all three ports open or top AND right open.

To plumb up your water heater, you need to connect the common port to the water lines. One side of the valve will go to and from the water heater, and the other side will be connected from one valve to the other.

I can’t get this to work when one of my two positions opens all three outlets.


This will work with either an L or a T ported valve. However, the L-ported valve is preferred because it will only work in either the water heater position or the bypass position. With the T ported valves it is possible to operate with the water heater and bypass lines both open at the same time, so you need to carefully mark the correct postions.
__________________

[markdoane]

Sergei,

I need more information. Hold the valve with the center port facing up, and the other ports facing right and left.

With the handle at 3 o'clock, are the left and common port open? How about the other clock positions? Also tell me which ports would be open if you took the handle off and turned the valve to the position you can't get to, because of the stops.

[steelbird312]

OK Sergei,
Since I do not know how to do these fancy things with a computer that others do, I drew up the plan, and put it here:http://jhodge7.photosite.com/Album4/bypass.html

Hope you can read it, or open it some way that you can. Essentially, A and d are both open with B closed for normal operation. To bypass, close A and d, and open B. That keeps water away from the heater; you can drain it, and pump antifreeze through the rest of the traiiler.
If someone wants the daunting task of teaching me computer tricks, I'm willing. Happy Thanksgiving!!!!!!!!!! Isn't freedom great?

[SmokelessJoe]

Markdoane, Steelbird.

Good Thanksgiving down there. Ours is traditionally the second Monday of October so we had ours a month ago.

Mark, at 3 o’clock all ports are open. At 6 o’clock the left port closes.

That’s it. That’s all this valve will do.

If I unscrew the nut and fit the lever on the other way all ports are open at 9 o’clock. At 12 o’clock the left port closes.

So nothing changes except the direction of the handle.

Steelbird, you must be using what I would call “shut-offs” and T’s. Three shut offs and two tees.

I can create your by-pass very easily with IPEX fittings. It will be a fraction of the cost of what my 3 way valves cost, not to mention that I will need 3 IPEX adapters for each T-shaped 3-way!

I can also make a by-pass using two L port valves. This is simple and easy because the flow can be diverted either left or right with one twist.

But my blue valves cannot be used unless I turn one set UPSIDE DOWN and locate a shut off between the two valves.

I think I will now go to the hardware store and try to exchange the 3 ways I bought for more IPEX parts.

This is the simple and easy way and I also like it because the stopcock valves are tiny as opposed to the big lever handles on the valves.

Space is at a premium, especially when I am trying to lay 3/4” coolant hoses for the hydronics alongside my plumbing.

Thank you both for your help. Happy American Thanksgiving. You have a lot to be thankful for.


Sergei

[steelbird312]

Sergei, That style is what I have had in all my units with the exception of my present trailer, which had been done at the factory as an option; it has the single handle control. I like the system that I tried to draw for you. The only thing I have ever experienced as a problem using it was one time I failed to completely close the 'A' valve when starting the season. As a result, my hot water was not completely hot, until I found the diluting cool water. Very simple.
As for your last statement, yes, we have profound blessings here. If only we keep a good grasp on them.
By the way, have you toured Newfoundland? We are planning two months there next year. Spent two months going from MI through Quebec, on up to the Gaspe Penninsula, through Nova Scotia, PEI, then on back down to Maine. We truley enjoyed your country. You have some wonderful wine there as well!
Here's wishing you great success on your plumbing,

[SmokelessJoe]

Steelbird,


I exchanged the troublesome valves for more IPEX fittings this afternoon. Tomorrow I hope to do the by pass as you drew it.

I have a seriously congested space problem because the heaters and plumbing share the under the cabinets space.

The hot and cold come out of my heater in different directions to further complicate matters.

Your question about Newfoundland is interesting. My plan, once this thing is done, is to set out for Newfoundland. Than back all across Canada to the Pacific!

Then I’ll drift down the coast to California, turning left for New Mexico and Texas and …..


Sergei

[steelbird312]

Well, maybe we will cross paths and break bread together. I will be with the WBCCI caravan group and we are to enter sometime about the third week of July for two months. Really looking forward to that.
Last year when we were in Nova Scotia, we met a young man who had been keeping records of Airstreams and WBCCI members he had seen since he was a kid. I have his forums name at home- he is a member of the group. Was a very interesting evening. If you are going through there, maybe you could meet him. I'm not sure if he has purchased a trailer yet or not. let me know, amnd I'll hunt it up.

[SmokelessJoe]

OK. We are in the home stretch now, ready to plumb in the new SHURFLO “Smart Sensor” water pump.

Question: Is the STRAINER advocated by Shur Flo a must have item or is it clever marketing, like when the cosmetic companies say “Shampoo. Rinse. Shampoo again.”??

Sergei

[steelbird312]

Sergei,
I have always used the fine stainless wire style strainers on mine. When camping, as many times as not, you are in campgrounds served by wells instead of municipal water systems. As a result, sediment can be a problem. The screen removes that problem.

[SmokelessJoe]

Thanks to EVERYONE who contributed to this thread. You actually taught me how to plumb my trailer.

It’s all in, tested and winterized and it looks very nice, if I say so myself.

In particular, thanks to STEELBIRD and MARKDOANE who put the idea of a heater by-pass and an antifreeze-suctioning device into my head. Without their advocacy I probably wouldn’t have known/thought about it.

Same thing about plumbing the system so that I can also fill the holding tank with city water, direct from the inside plumbing. SAFARI TIM contributed that idea.

Thank you all.

Now, on to the diesel heated hydronics system.


Sergei

[juel]

Ok all, this should make you feel lots better about your projects. This is what we found in our 78 Argosy when we discovered a leak under the trailer at one of the drains. We took the shelf out of the bathroom closet and found we are in for a complete re-plumb this winter. This thread will be a great help. Yes, we fixed the leak temporarily.

[steelbird312]

Sergei, your work is very nice. Commendable. Thanks for letting us share it with you.

[SmokelessJoe]

An earlier part of my plumbing job wasn’t reported here.



I wanted to have these miniature marine type fixtures appear out of the brilliant white epoxy-like walls with no supply lines seen, as in residential or high end boats.



The plumbing was embedded in the walls, surrounded with insulation and further protected with electric trace heating good to 40^ below F.



Sergei

[juel]

What do these miniature fixtures do? They are very nice looking and you did a great job, but what are they. I am beginning to feel like such a slacker with my Argosy after looking at all your work.

[3Ms75Argosy]

the top fixture is an elbow for the shower hose to attach to. The bottom one is a mixture valve for the shower.

Sergei - did you find these at West Marine? I found simular items after you posted. Pretty nice - I'm assuming that there is 3" of space behind the mixture valve (as this is what West Marine says is neccesary).

Looking great! (again)

Marc