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Old 10-07-2006, 08:28 AM   #15
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Richard:

Thanks for all the information on the valves and by-pass.

I hope to be in warm weather every remaining winter of my life so I may never winterize either. But I shouldnít overlook a detail like a heater by-pass having spent the time and bucks that have gone into my reno thus far.

Sergei
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:15 AM   #16
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Smokeless Joe,
The systems can be purchased at Camping World for very little.
Look here
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/s...15717&src=SRQB

and here
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/s...=6279&src=SRQB

You drain your water tank and water heater, and only use a gal or so of antifreeze. Cheapest and most effective winterizing of any method.
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Old 11-14-2006, 06:28 PM   #17
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OK, people.

While installing the first part of the all new IPEX Aqua plumbing Iíve encountered a puzzling problem with the original Watts regulator, check valve and overflow- parts which Iíd decided to re-cycle.

(The IPEX is amazingly easy to use, BTW).

A quick explanation of the plumbing, then the problem:

Explanation:

The photo is of the necessarily congested area under cabinetry in the rear bath. (I want all the drains in one place. Easy access will be had by removing a lower shelf.)

City water enters from below at the rear and proceeds through the check valve, the regulator and an overflow device before turning 90^ to a T into the main cold line.

The next T to the left of the 90 is were the winter drain exits at the top, running along the back wall to the shut-off and a flexible plastic hose exiting the trailer.

From the left side of this same T, the water proceeds to another T up to the sink and also past a shut-off, into the rear wall and running to the shower and toilet.

The hot line runs in the foreground, with a T off to a winter drain, another T to the sink riser and a shut off to the other in-wall shower line.

(The hidden lines to the shower and toilet are well protected with closed cell and bubble insulation as well as wrapped with electric heating cable, good to 40^ below. Thatís why the electric cord among the pipes.)

One of the fan coil units in the hydronic heating system also sits here, as in the photo. It will add to the congestion with it's two 3/4Ē rubber coolant lines but Iíve layed it out in a dry run and everything fits.

Problem:

No leaks but water is running out of the overflow.

The regulator is marked 45 psi and I hadnít adjusted anything. The overflow is rated 125 psi ďunless stamped otherwiseĒ, and it is stamped 60 psi.

I know that the water at my house is much higher pressure than usual, around 75 psi.

So why is a steady stream of water bleeding off at the overflow? It didnít do this in the original ARGOSY setup and I havenít fiddled with any of the settings.

(I did later try to turn the screw on top the regulator inward. It didnít seem to change anything).

Why is the regulator failing to reduce the incoming 75 psi to 45 psi, which must be happening if the overflow is kicking in?

Is the regulator shot? Need more adjusting somehow? Overflow faulty? Could it be because Iíve connected the hot and cold lines together so that I could create a ďloopĒ to water pressure test the plumbing?

Maybe I should get a nice new regulator like this one:

http://nhsmarine.com/WaterPressureRegulator/default.htm


Anyone knowing what to do next please help.


Thanks,

Sergei
















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Old 11-14-2006, 07:45 PM   #18
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Hi, Smokeless Joe,

The regulator dumps excess pressure trying to maintain the set pressure by bleeding out water through the discharge line. My regulator in the Argosy dumped all the time in the campground I was in south Georgia. I bought a < $10 Marshall 30 psi external brass regulator in the RV section of Wal-Mart, and that was the end of that. I've never hooked up the water on the Excella without it, and I've never seen it dribbling water overboard.

Lamar
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Old 11-14-2006, 08:28 PM   #19
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Joe,

It looks like everything is hooked up in the proper order and direction, all I could suggest is:

1. Buy a cheap pressure gauge and check the pressure before and after the regulator. Either the regulator is out of adjustment (screw out for less pressure), or the pressure relief valve is jammed.

2. Does the relief valve gush at full flow, or is it just leaking a little bit?

You can try taking the pressure regulator apart if it is out of whack. Can't hurt it if it's broken. I prefer adjustable Watts regulators, like a 25 AUB model, available at Lowes.
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Old 11-14-2006, 09:44 PM   #20
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BEAUTIFUL work Markdoane. I shouldaí had you do mine too.

I hear what Safeharbor is saying but it canít be that the regulator works by dumping the excess pressure. The overflow valve is an entirely separate device. He must have had the same thing go wrong with his that I now have with mine.

The relief valve produces a steady stream, something like the Little Boy in Belgium. Itís not full force, as when you open a drain valve in the 1/2Ē pipe.

It is almost as if it were bleeding the difference between 75 pounds in and itís setting for 60, which would indicate that the Watts is not working. Or maybe something is jammed in the relief valve.

There is a neat 78 year old plumber still doing small jobs in our area. Maybe I can ask him to have a look.

If Iím going to spend money I think Iíd like to get that neat NHS Marine regulator I refer to above. It doesnít cost any more than a Watts from a Big Box and looks cool. I like the idea of the dial.

It mounts outside at the entry, like Lamarís. As a first test, I could add it and see what happens inside. That might reveal which device was the culprit - before I remove them.

On the other hand, itís probably good to keep the relief valve. Maybe I should call old Charlie Jackson, the real plumber.


Sergei
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Old 11-15-2006, 07:00 AM   #21
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The regulator is marked 45 psi and I hadn?t adjusted anything. The overflow is rated 125 psi ?unless stamped otherwise?, and it is stamped 60 psi.
I know that the water at my house is much higher pressure than usual, around 75 psi.
(I did later try to turn the screw on top the regulator inward. It didn?t seem to change anything).
Why is the regulator failing to reduce the incoming 75 psi to 45 psi, which must be happening if the overflow is kicking in?

Sergei,
When you ran the screw in, you adjusted the pressure regulator TO A HIGHER PRESSURE. These regulators can, rarely, go bad. The first thing needed, in your troubleshooting, in my opinion, is a pressure gauge to see what pressure is actually coming through the Watts. Then, you will know if it is working. Then, and only then, would you know whether to look elsewhere.
Personally, I think your regulator is at fault. It is perfectly OK to take it apart to check the seats, as well as the shaft. Check for grit or trash. Any kind of residue or build up. If it has limestone residue in it, a days soaking in vinegar will clean that.
Your work is very neat as well. Looks as if you may have a fortune in brass couplers!
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Old 11-15-2006, 07:29 AM   #22
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Sergei,

Tell us more about the IPEX system. Where did you get it, and is it easy to install. How much does it cost?

I goggled Ipex. I discovered that Victoria's Secret makes a bra called the Ipex.

Interesting excursion, but I'm sure you used something different.
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:53 AM   #23
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Very easy to use

Markdoane:

I think IPEX is a Canadian company operating internationally out of Mississauga, Ontario, near Toronto.

Here is the link to their USA site:

http://www.ipexinc.com/Content/EN_US/

I bought it at the hardware store in the closest small town to me. Home Depot at London, an hour away, also has IPEX Aqua and another less costly line but itís better to buy locally. Less driving when you forget a fitting or make a mistake. More helpful staff too.

The pipe is a bendable aluminum, plastic coated inside and outside. The fittings are brass, although I note on their site today that they now make neat looking plastic fittings as well.

I think the cost was about $265.00 Cdn., stem to stern.


Sergei


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Old 11-15-2006, 09:58 PM   #24
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Should I install a relief valve in my new system?

Friends:

I bought an in-expensive pressure gauge today but there was no obvious way for me to connect it into my system. So much for trying to find out which device was malfunctioning.

I concluded that if Iím going to spend any more money on these 30 year old parts I might as well have new ones.

Tomorrow Iím going to order this regulator:

http://nhsmarine.com/WaterPressureRegulator/default.htm

It costs about the same as a Watts but I think itís more versatile.

A question: why did Airstream install an overflow or relief valve just downstream of the pressure regulator? Whatís its intended function? Back-up if the regulator doesnít regulate - or something else as well?

I saw a plainly packaged one in a Big Box today. It had a knurled knob on the top but not one word of explanation as to how it could be set or adjusted.

No one in the store knew either.

Advice awaited. Thanks.

Sergei



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Old 11-16-2006, 05:20 AM   #25
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The way you use the guage is to install an inline T fitting. You put that in anyplace you can to get a line of sight on it.
The branch of the T gets a reducing fitting to accept the guage, I think 1/4" you then adjust the knob on the regulator to 45lbs etc.

Its so standard I guess there's no instructions an the box?
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Old 11-16-2006, 05:29 AM   #26
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Sergei,
This is a guess, I don't know this as a fact. Could it be that the pressure regulator is a 40 PSI, and the line has a check valve in it to prevent backflow when using the onboard pump, so the pressure created by the hot water heater would pressurize the system unless it is released someway. So, the 60 PSI is put in for the purpose of protecting the entire system? Now, that begs the question, did the overflow start spewing water as soon as you turned on the street water supply? If you use only the onboard pump to run the system, does water come out of the overflow?
As for hooking up your gauge, What about an adapter to screw it to the kitchen faucet? Take the aereator off and you should be able to attach it there using an adapter. Be sure to leave only the cold turned on to verify the pressure.
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Old 11-16-2006, 06:33 AM   #27
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the relief valve is there to protect from the hot water heater overpressurising the line.
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Old 11-16-2006, 07:46 AM   #28
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We are in the process of replacing old water lines in our 78 Argosy, at least in places until we can bring it home and winterize. We had a leak in the rear bathroom closet that was leaking out a drain tube to the ground. The pipes back there appear to be original and one was balooned out a little. The pressure regulator is still in place; however, we got another one to put on the outside hose and the leak stopped. Now we know we need to replace some of the piping while the trailer is being used. We don't want to take the chance of ruining the floor. My big question is WHAT ABOUT THE NEW INTELLIPOWER. It is sitting right back there in the middle of all those pipes. Has anyone put this thing up on blocks or in an elevated tray? I'm not comfortable with it sitting on the floor in all the "potential water".
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