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Old 05-13-2005, 02:51 PM   #1
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A Tankless job

After much consideration, I just ordered an Excel Tankless water heater. I phoned Bosch and they don't recommend or support the use of their tankless units in RV or boats.

If anyone has any experience on the tankless install, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Ken
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Old 05-13-2005, 03:00 PM   #2
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I was told by the AS customer service representative that a 10 gallon water heater won't fit in the current Safari line and that is the size that the Excel replaces if that helps. I don't know about the older models or other lines of AS's such as Classics.
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Old 05-13-2005, 03:50 PM   #3
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The Excel is 16"x12"x6", the Bowen I took out was larger so I am not expecting space to be an issue. (I hope).

Ken
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Old 05-13-2005, 05:02 PM   #4
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TroutStream,

Did you read the previous postings on this water heater? There are cautions about using it in an enclosed space. I would take them seriously.

Did you notice that they have CSA approval, but won't sell them in Canada? What's THAT all about????
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Old 05-13-2005, 06:13 PM   #5
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Don,

I just found the other thread and read through them. I understand what you mean about the enclosed space. I'm going to attempt to put it where my Bowen was - a space which is somewhat vented.

The Excel comes with a supposedly sophisticated ODS (Oxygen depletion sensor) that will shut it down hopefully before it shuts us down.

I to was wondering about the CSA approval. I had a tough time tracking it down at any retail outlet - let alone in Canada. I didn't read that to mean - not authorized for use in Canada.

The Bosch heaters are readily available in Canada - I found several in a local marine store. I was going to purchase one but a call to Bosch told me they did NOT recommend using them in an RV or boat. I told them that marine supply stores were selling them and they said repeated that they didn't recommend it.

Excel on the other hand openly promotes their units for use in an RV.

Besides I read several posts from the GASMAN and he promotes the Excel.

"And when the GASMAN testifies..."
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Old 05-13-2005, 06:34 PM   #6
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Ken,

I'm not sure who the GASMAN is, but I found it very interesting that he is from Miami, and that's where Excel America has their US office. He was pretty vocal in his 'recommendations', and I think those were the only posts he ever made.

Did you read the Excel America corporate values? I have never read such a garbled pile of platitudes in my life.

cut&paste from their Corporate Values Statement:

Cultural identity exists among Excel America and its partners and allies, as for ethical securities and the commitment with the satisfaction of the clients.

All alliance or society is visualized like a relationship of long term aligned with the expectations and goals of each organization.

??? (weird)

CSA is a Canadian approval similar to UL. I wouldn't trust my life to an battery powered oxygen depletion sensor. Personal choice. I couldn't find the site where I thought I saw that they could not sell in Canada, I may have been mistaken about that.

What I really want to say, Ken, is I value your life and don't want you to take any risks. If you don't have lots of experience in ventilation and life safety issues, I would forgo this heater. I was really SCARED when the Excel site referred you to a West Marine site on 'ventilation', which had NOTHING to do with tankless water heaters. That kind of cop-out bothers me a lot!
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Old 05-13-2005, 07:12 PM   #7
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Don,

I re-read the GASMAN's posts and I agree there does seem to be a bias. I have already ordered the unit so I may end up being stuck with it. If worst comes to worst, I may have a heated outdoor shower in the backyard.

Generally, we don't use HW much. We usually camp in gov't parks where we boondock but there are hot showers available. I certainly don't mind heating water on the stove for dishes etc. Last year we were gone 2 weeks with no HW without much notice. Being naturally lazy, I wouldn't be worrying about it now it my wife wasn't asking for it specifically.

My concern with the Atwood was I know I had a h*ll of a time getting the old Bowen out (cramped space, tight fit etc), that I wasn't looking at all forward to cramming a new one in; then having to try to reconnect everything.

I will try it out and as long as the Excel unit only fires up when in use I should be OK. Fortunately all of our window screens are in good repair so we keep the windows open most of the time.

Thanks for the advice.

Ken.
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Old 05-14-2005, 08:43 AM   #8
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I'm no brain surgeon, but the words "somewhat vented" and the burning of fossil fuels isn't painting pretty pictures in my head.
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Old 05-14-2005, 12:50 PM   #9
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Silver,

the Excel unit is CSA approved and described as vent-free because of the ODS.

http://www.excelamerica.com
Ken.
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Old 05-14-2005, 03:08 PM   #10
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Arrow Oxygen

Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutStream
Don,

I just found the other thread and read through them. I understand what you mean about the enclosed space. I'm going to attempt to put it where my Bowen was - a space which is somewhat vented.

The Excel comes with a supposedly sophisticated ODS (Oxygen depletion sensor) that will shut it down hopefully before it shuts us down.
Don't forget PLEASE, that "oxygen depletion" isn't the problem. Propane appliances can produce carbon monoxide as well as carbon dioxide.

Carbon monoxide can kill you even when there is plenty of oxygen in the room. (CO) carbon monoxide binds with your red blood corpuscles preventing them from picking up oxygen. If enough blood cells are affected you can die with an oxygen mask on. It also takes weeks or months for the effects to wear off completely. Only as your body makes new red cells does your ability to absorb oxygen improve.

Carbon dioxide (CO2) will only get you if all of the oxygen is depleted. As long as there is oxygen in the room your red blood cells can pick it up from your lungs.

"Somewhat vented" is like "somewhat dead".

Be careful, there is NO bargain in risking your life or your family's. Pay to have someone else install a replacement heater if it's a job you want to avoid.

Best wishes, Tin Liz.
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Old 05-14-2005, 03:44 PM   #11
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Paula makes a few good points that I would certainly consider.

I may be missing something here but it occurs to me that this water heater should be isolated from the interior of the trailer... Isn't that how the originals are set up? Mine has an outside access panel and I assume that the oxygen it burns comes through the outside vent and it also exhausts to the outside. If it were me this is how I would setup the excell.

Any reason why this unit has to be in the same "enclosed space" as the occupants of the trailer?

-T
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Old 05-14-2005, 08:30 PM   #12
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T.

I had fully intended to locate the Excel in the same location as the Bowen, using the existing venting in the access door. I will seek a professional opinion before going ahead with the install. If necessary I'll send the unit back and eat the shipping and restock charge.

It does seem odd to me that some would rather burn an old water heater 24/7 rather than only when needed. I was somewhat concerned about the safety of my Bowen before I yanked it out.

Admittedly, I did consider the opinion of the GASMAN on another HW thread where he touted the Excel as being a superior product for RV applications. I figured he called himself the GASMAN for a reason (maybe it was the other reason).

I did phone Bosch USA and they do not recommend or support using their units in RV or Marine. That doesn't stop marine supply stores from selling them for marine use

Ken
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