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04-16-2008, 11:42 AM
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#1
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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Would this work?
I'd like a bigger black tank. I have this bathroom
Problem is, the black tank sits under the vanity and toilet, on the floor. There isn't room in there for anything bigger. Unless you go "below"...
problem there is that these fixtures are all tied together (shower, sink/counter, vanity, black tank cover), so removing the tank cover would leave you with a vanity that doesn't reach the floor. I'm not sure that I'm clever enough to build a new one.
So I'm thinking, why not just leave the tank cover (and its plywood underpinnings) in place, "as if" there were a tank there...and connect a sub-floor mounted tank to the toilet with a 3" extension pipe. Its a long drop...but so what?
I suppose I could cobble up a plywood box to tuck under the vanity, and use a full-height toilet mounted to the floor, insead. I'm just afraid that it would look "cobbled", compared to the custom-molded stuff that's there now.
thoughts?
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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04-16-2008, 12:34 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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Questions...how is your shower tied into the same tank if the bottom of the shower pan is at the floor level and the tank is above the floor? 1973 - Do you have a grey tank?
I have a couple of thoughts...but need to understand how your tank(s) work now.
Shari
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04-16-2008, 12:47 PM
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#3
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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no grey tank.
thats another subject, entirely.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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04-16-2008, 02:05 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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Okay then...could you just make the black tank taller? Go DOWN from the floor and suspend it into the frame above the belly pan (or below)? That way you would still use the space above the floor in the platform AND make the tank bigger by going below. My thought is that it could be "open" right below the toilet to connect the two tanks - not just a connection tube which could get "clogged". You would have to somehow support the suspended tank...but that could easily be down with strapping of some sort..
Shari
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04-16-2008, 02:10 PM
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#5
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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are you talking about 2 tanks? or one big one...with a large cutout in the floor? I don't think putting a huge hole in the floor that close to the back of the trailer would be a good idea. there'd be nothing to connect the shell to, for one...and since the floor is "structural"...
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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04-16-2008, 02:17 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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No, I'm thinking of two tanks the same size, one above and one below the floor with an "oversized connector" right below the toilet between them. Kinda like a "C" or sideways "U" shape. You would probably have to use a wand to clean the "shelf" under the sink part (if it's not sloped)...but that wouldn't be a big deal in my opinion.
Make sense?
I agree, a single tank would compromise the floor too much.
Shari
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04-16-2008, 02:48 PM
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#7
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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hmm...well, thats interesting. So...just leave the existing tank, and have it dump into a "sub-tank". LOL! Convenient that this particular setup is a "bottom-dump". the dump goes straight down through the floor; not out the side, like on most trailers.
I'll see if I can find a pic...
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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04-16-2008, 02:50 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
are you talking about 2 tanks? or one big one...with a large cutout in the floor? I don't think putting a huge hole in the floor that close to the back of the trailer would be a good idea. there'd be nothing to connect the shell to, for one...and since the floor is "structural"...
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Use caution when adding weight to the rear end.
Your trailer is subject to the "rear end separtion" problems.
Your two tank setup would work, or a larger tank could be used, but you would have to modify the rear end, so that the shell would have a much better control over the frame.
If not, then rear end separation, for your trailer, would be a "guarantee."
Andy
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04-16-2008, 02:51 PM
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#9
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Always Airstreaming!
2005 22' Safari
1960 24' Tradewind
Anytown
, Connecticut
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,115
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Chuck.... I would just drill a 4" hole through the floor and you know have a portable potty. When it gets a little smelly under the AS just tow to a new spot!
__________________
J. Rick Cipot
Sandi Gould
NEU New England Unit
Airstream Life Magazine
Proud Member of WBCCI
WBCCI #3411
AIR #17099
2009 Silverado 2500HD
2004 22' Safari
1960 24' Tradewind
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04-16-2008, 03:15 PM
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#10
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickandsandi
Chuck.... I would just drill a 4" hole through the floor and you know have a portable potty. When it gets a little smelly under the AS just tow to a new spot!
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Daring advice, coming from someone next to whom I am likely to be parked at future rallies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InlandRV
Use caution when adding weight to the rear end.
Your trailer is subject to the "rear end separtion" problems.
Your two tank setup would work, or a larger tank could be used, but you would have to modify the rear end, so that the shell would have a much better control over the frame.
If not, then rear end separation, for your trailer, would be a "guarantee."
Andy
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I'm hip. But, included in my diabolical plan is the following:
(its only a 23 footer. Have you ever seen separation on a trailer this short? )
still, I plan on using your suggestion of adding angle-irons welded to the outboard of the main frame rails, and bolting to the floor, for extra support.
PLUS, I won't be driving around with it full. not as a matter of routine, anyway. a larger, but empty tank back there shouldn't be significantly heavier than what is already there.
PLUS, I promise to buy new axles, first.
AND I promise, I'll balance the running gear.
there's a pic that shows the location of the original dump valve here: http://www.airforums.com/forums/232428-post7.html
I just thought of why this won't work. (the 2-tank idea): black hills. the dump outlet on the existing tank is NOT directly beneath the toilet. Oh, well. back to the drawing board...
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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04-16-2008, 03:16 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
hmm...well, thats interesting. So...just leave the existing tank, and have it dump into a "sub-tank". LOL! Convenient that this particular setup is a "bottom-dump". the dump goes straight down through the floor; not out the side, like on most trailers.
I'll see if I can find a pic...
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Basically, that's what I was thinking...seems like if the support & frame issues are addressed with consideration of the added weight it would work. Sounds like it'd even be simpler because of the bottom dump valve on your existing tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
I just thought of why this won't work. (the 2-tank idea): black hills. the dump outlet on the existing tank is NOT directly beneath the toilet. Oh, well. back to the drawing board...
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That's why I suggested a "oversized connector" hole between the tanks...maybe elongate your dump hole you have now (eeewww...that sounds baaaad!) to make it better align with the toilet. No reason I can think of that it has to be round...
Shari
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04-16-2008, 03:37 PM
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#12
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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yeah...I'm not thinking that's a likely scenario. . maybe add a second connector. Still sounds potentially messy. And more and more like modifying the vanity cabinet would be easier.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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04-16-2008, 03:48 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
Elgin
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 800
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This may be a bit radical - add a second tank in the belly pan somewhere forward of the bath area - install a 12-volt macerator pump between the two, then whenever the tank in the back gets full, flip a switch and transfer it forward. Sort of like a grinder pump on a house where the sewage has to go uphill (which is definitely against conventional thinking). It means having to clean two tanks at the dump station, but also fewer trips.
__________________
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04-16-2008, 04:01 PM
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#14
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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yeah, that IS radical. really, there's not that much room. I kinda like the idea of using "gravity" to empty the tanks...in my experince, it almost always works. electrical devices...not so much.
but along the same line of thought: what you could do is leave the existing setup, valve and all...add a tank underneath, with the existing dump tube emptying into it. Leave the dump valve closed. when the existing tank fills, pull the dump handle to transfer the contents into the sub-tank. Then close up the valve, and start again.
wait...no, then you'd have a venting problem. this is getting silly!
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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04-16-2008, 04:19 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
Elgin
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
yeah, that IS radical. really, there's not that much room. I kinda like the idea of using "gravity" to empty the tanks...in my experince, it almost always works. electrical devices...not so much.
but along the same line of thought: what you could do is leave the existing setup, valve and all...add a tank underneath, with the existing dump tube emptying into it. Leave the dump valve closed. when the existing tank fills, pull the dump handle to transfer the contents into the sub-tank. Then close up the valve, and start again.
wait...no, then you'd have a venting problem. this is getting silly!
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I guess for those trips where you know you're going to be parked for a while you could pack along a second tank dedicated to those "contents". With just the two of us, we can squeeze about 5 days worth into our tank before it has to be emptied. I've seriously considered designing and constructing such a tank - maybe constructing a frame out of square aluminum tubing that you could lay a pre-made poly tank in - complete with dump valve at lowest point. Maybe mount pneumatic dolly tires on it, with a means to tow it behind the truck. The whole thing would sit low enough to the ground so that gravity can do its thing between the trailer and the tank...
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04-16-2008, 04:26 PM
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#16
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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I think they call that a "blue-boy"....
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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04-16-2008, 04:32 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
Elgin
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
I think they call that a "blue-boy"....
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Except that this one would be a "some other color Boy" Maybe "Brown Boy?"
Most of the current BB choices (like three, maybe) seem to come up a little short in design and long in price for what you get. I figure even if I end up spending $100 more creating my own, I'm going to get something that's more, uh, user-friendly...
Anyhoo, it's a thought!
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04-16-2008, 05:43 PM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
1972 25' Tradewind
Madison
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 396
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My old 72 only has a 14 gallon black water tank. The grey is drained right on out. I keep 3 15 gallon blue boys. One for the black water, and tow for grey water. I like the 15's as they are easy enough to pull up the fold up dog ramp into the back of the pick up.
I thought about modifying the drainage plumbing. Then I looked into the additonal frame work plus additional plumbing work, not to mention getting a couple of different tanks.....enough is enough. (I am redoing plumbing now) I decided that the three blue boys wouldn't be too bad of a solution.
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