Toilet or Not? 67 Ambassador Remodel

[xrvr]

Many TinCan tourist folks have antique trailers without amenities. Don't know any better I guess. No toilets some without running water or lp gas. Sure are nice looking trailers though. Jim

[BIGED52]

Does a bear ---- in the woods? Yes! But I don't think I want to! Many trailers were built well before such amenities like black tank and toilets were ever designed for them. However, If I were looking at a trailer to buy and my pre-purchase investigations of the models/manufacturers show the trailer equipped with a toilet and waste system and then a P.O. did a rebuild that eliminated it.... I would pass on that trailer. Why buy something that can really only be used in a full services campground or boondocking by taking the chance of getting caught going backwards by using a throwback gopher hole to dispose of body waste. As for folks wanting your rebuild w/o bathroom. Many people want GTs, Pacers, Travelers and Wee Winds! That doesn't mean they would want one that has been modified to remove this amenity! They just want the small trailer so the can make it into what they want and for it to function! Of course they may or may not choose to add the bathroom/toilet feature back to the coach! Just Sayin'! Ed

[Airline]

Just slam a Dometic 310 in it and everyone will be happy....

someone mentioned the "OLD" trailers.

trailers were not allowed to have Toilets/holding tanks until a certain time (post ww2 ?) because they were not allowed to cross state lines carrying sewage.

[carver 1]

Originally Posted by rsjmcg

From what I know about composting toilets (no personal experience, for a reason), that choice would never be on my options list. I'm in agreement with those who say a toilet is a must and that means also having an easily emptied holding tank. My own experience with vintage says *separate* black and grey tanks, and a separate dump valves for each, are the best (IMO, the only acceptable) way to go, whether you keep this trailer or sell it. When I first acquired my still-very-often-used '56, it had no installed black nor grey tanks; the PO used a portable "camping potty" that has a built-in tank at bottom, and these are still widely available, and ~could~ be a solution for you (but, I'm willing to bet you won't like the frequent carrying/emptying duties involved with their very high yuck factors). Who knows what the original owner did with the original toilet system (I'm not even sure that mid-50s ASs' toilets even had a black holding tank under them???) I installed one tank at first, for both black and grey, but quickly determined that it is far better to have 2 tanks for maximum flexibility when on the road and/or in campgrounds with their highly variable sewage infrastructures, oftentimes none at all in the less developed sites, state parks, and the like. Anyway, for any DIY'er, installing black and gray tanks and all the associated plumbing/venting is not at all difficult and not expensive either. Good luck with the project, whatever you decide!

With all due respect: I have an Airhead Composting toilet on my Sailboat. It is one of my best purchases. I would not hesitate to install the same in my Classic 30 if the need arrived. Although more expensive than the Nature's Head, the difference in the quality and the overall engineering is worth it. If anyone wants more information and advice on the simple installation, you can PM me.

>>ron<<

[ArtisanAir]

Yes and that is why I asked for opinions. But the majority seems to lean towards having the amenities. So that will be the route this will go. Now on to picking the grey tank position and size. Today I stripped it out just so I could address the rotted sub floor and clean the pan of built up debris. I will probably just use the original black tank being that it doesn't leak. Now to figure a layout that best fits the original placement of the tank.

[rsjmcg]

No hating need be assumed, Artisan; having a toilet-less '64 means to me that you and/or your overnight family/guests have just been lucky, so far, (you've been lucky too, as a host) in not having anyone suffering *yet* from any one of many common ailments that causes an urgent need for a "toilet-RIGHT-HERE-RIGHT-NOW-and-for-ALL-forseeable-hours-to-come". Just a short list includes these common situations: babies and toddlers without reliable potty-training, those with stomach upsets, those sick from a "bug", those enduring a UTI, or a kidney stone, or recovering from any type of abdominal surgery, or needing to routinely use a catheter, or wear adult diapers, or have diarrhea/vomiting, or >insert your ad nauseum examples here<. All everyone here is saying is: Give the requisite bit of consideration to your family and guests who eventually WILL present you with one of these siutations. When this happens, not if, you'll regret your choice to forego such a basic amenity as on on board topilet as you point them out to the campground's toilet, or out into nature if you're dry-camping, or you deal frequently with emptying/cleaning a porta-potty. Truly, you're going to swiftly change your mind when you come up against "life" without the sanitary-ness that comes with a toilet that has running water and that flushes all into a sealed holding tank. But it's your rep so you can do whatever you want in order to prove us all wrong...even if it does make you "bite off your nose to spite your face".

[ArtisanAir]

Originally Posted by rsjmcg

No hating need be assumed, Artisan; having a toilet-less '64 means to me that you and/or your overnight family/guests have just been lucky, so far, (you've been lucky too, as a host) in not having anyone suffering *yet* from any one of many common ailments that causes an urgent need for a "toilet-RIGHT-HERE-RIGHT-NOW-and-for-ALL-forseeable-hours-to-come". Just a short list includes these common situations: babies and toddlers without reliable potty-training, those with stomach upsets, those sick from a "bug", those enduring a UTI, or a kidney stone, or recovering from any type of abdominal surgery, or needing to routinely use a catheter, or wear adult diapers, or have diarrhea/vomiting, or >insert your ad nauseum examples here<. All everyone here is saying is: Give the requisite bit of consideration to your family and guests who eventually WILL present you with one of these siutations. When this happens, not if, you'll regret your choice to forego such a basic amenity as on on board topilet as you point them out to the campground's toilet, or out into nature if you're dry-camping, or you deal frequently with emptying/cleaning a porta-potty. Truly, you're going to swiftly change your mind when you come up against "life" without the sanitary-ness that comes with a toilet that has running water and that flushes all into a sealed holding tank. But it's your rep so you can do whatever you want in order to prove us all wrong...even if it does make you "bite off your nose to spite your face".

I'm sorry let me clarify. I was referring to the fact he was insisting on myself not making a profit. I gave him an example to understand that his comment is already void. I AGREE with everyone about the toilet feature, and I was never sold on not having one. I do a lot of backpacking so I'm OK without one but I needed A general consensus. That was the purpose of the thread, not to be told I won't be profitable (aka hater). I am pursuing by looking at different models of grey tanks and toilets.

[BDowse]

Depends

[mandolindave]

You said
"Consider this, I also own a 64' Globetrotter and I've completely remodeled it WITHOUT a toilet." You had not mentioned that. You just said you were fixing up a trailer to sell.

You also said you didn't know much about the plumbing. You asked us a question that someone new to RVing would ask. You had only 3 posts so it was understandable that I didn't think you were an Airstream fanatic.

There are drawbacks to not having a toilet. One of which is resale value. Personally…when my plumbing was out of commission, I found that a porta potti was actually convenient because I never had to look for a dump station.

And I stand by my statement about making money restoring campers. Most of us can not sell our campers for what we have into them. If you do all of the work yourself, you could make your money back for parts and materials and some for your labor. Probably less than what your time, sweat, and skills are worth.

BTW people drive by my house, never having seen the inside of my remodeled trailer and offer me less than half of what I have into it.

Easy fix….I'll make sure not to annoy you again.

[ArtisanAir]

Originally Posted by mandolindave

You said
Easy fix….I'll make sure not to annoy you again.

I just don't appreciate hasty remarks on a topic not targeted for this thread. I did not ask for business opinions from anyone. This is something I would love to do for the rest of my life (priceless). I'm a passionate person and do not have to make A LOT of money doing it. Its all about what you love doing, along with profit of course, that's how you continue to do what you love everyday. I've seen some outrageous pricing on some custom trailers and the market cannot be valued easily. Auctions will tell the story. You didn't annoy me per-say, but simply doubted me before even finding out the facts first. Thanks for trying to bring reality to my eyes but you would never know if you didn't at least try first. You learn from your failures as much as success, ill be getting something out of this, I PROMISE.

Ill get off my soap box now, its time to focus. What is the opinions of most popular toilet systems? Are there particular brands people swear by? Any brands I should stay away from? The DO's the DONT's? I promise i'm also searching other threads / doing homework, I just thought people might bring some fresh up to date info to the table...

[ericpeltier]

I do not find that my RV toilet is any less sanitary than the one in my house.

Frankly, I find plunging the toilet at my house to be less sanitary than dumping the tanks on my RV.

[ArtisanAir]

Originally Posted by ericpeltier

I do not find that my RV toilet is any less sanitary than the one in my house.

Frankly, I find plunging the toilet at my house to be less sanitary than dumping the tanks on my RV.

Understood, Do RV toilets clog often, or even at all (I would assume they would)? It sounds simple (toilets in RV's) almost too simple. That is why I would like to pick everyone's mind before learning from mistakes.

[ericpeltier]

Originally Posted by ArtisanAir

Understood, Do RV toilets clog often, or even at all (I would assume they would)? .

I feel that the "orifice" on my RV toilet is bigger than the "orifice" in the toilet at my house. I gotta think that means it will not clog as easily. I have never clogged my RV toilet.

[ArtisanAir]

Is that common on all RV toilets? Ill admit, doing some research, I don't think personally I'll own another without one either! Outside looking in, it seemed like a daunting hassle of upkeep and sanitizing. No smell.. No fussy mess (unless an unfortunate leak occurs), and you cannot beat the convenience factor. I need some "swear by" product brands though, anyone?

[mandolindave]

I replaced my broken toilet with a Sealand ( low height to account for the deck it sits on) I used the china or porcelain model because the plastic ones scratch and get harder to clean. ( also the scratches make a nice breeding ground for nastys )

BUT…I seem to recall a conversation with another craftsman, who was making the same decisions about the restoration of his vintage project trailer. I believe that I found a toilet ( maybe marine ????????) that is VERY reminiscent of the old style RV toilet.( very cool ) AND… we saw a few used originals for sale. They take up very little room, if that matters.

I mentioned that I thought that in some ways a porta potti
(or cassette toilet) is more convenient than a built in. I still use mine ( have two ) when I know I won't be near a dump station, and in the winter when my plumbing is winterized. BUT…I am still glad I put a new toilet and black tank in mine, for when I have a large group, or I am on an extended trip. yeah, and resale.

[ArtisanAir]

So is porcelain the "way to go"? No pun intended. Or does the weight factor offset the sanitizing issue? Gut feeling is telling me people would like porcelain and would sacrifice weight somewhere else to have it...

[idroba]

The perception is that a porcelain is easier to clean than plastic. My opinion is that there is no significant difference but some are sure there is. I have had around 16 + RV's and all but one have had plastic toilets. The 2014 FC 20 I have now came with a Thetford porcelain which is not all that impressive due to the flushing system. It is not a rim flush, but uses a spray from the rear only and has marginal coverage. The feature I like the best on any RV toilet is the ability to use a hand flush sprayer, something like a sink sprayer. Then if there are any left over deposits, they can be easily sprayed away using minimal water. That is best for someone who boondocks like I usually do.

[mandolindave]

I am trying to retire. I had a plan to restore vintage " cannned ham " trailers. Buy, restore and sell.

Then I researched it, prepared a model, and designed a shelter to protect the works in progress. I have a place with ten acres.( I have a degree in Marketing, my father was a partner in the top accounting firm in the world, and my daughter has her Masters in Finance ). I found out that even worn out canned hams were selling for between $ 500 and $ $1000, and most of the beautifully restored canned hams were selling for between $10K and $ 12K. and I would have to wait for a buyer to get paid. I did the math.

My research led me to a great soul who restores peoples canned hams. He charges about ten thousand dollars. I'm not sure if materials are extra. But he is guaranteed his fee. It takes him about eight months to finish a project. I did the math. This seemed like a smarter way to go financially, but you had to find clients and get the job, and the financial rewards were light.

I still might restore one for myself, in my spare time, for fun, as a hobby.

Here's what matters... you said you put your heart into the restoration of your first trailer, and you said that doing what you love is what matters. It's cool that you know where your heart is. That's a beautiful thing. Yeah...I follow my heart too…my daughter makes sure my head knows where my wallet is.

Sorry for talking business. I wouldn't have went there if you hadn't said that you were fixing it up the trailer to sell it.

[ArtisanAir]

Originally Posted by mandolindave

I am trying to retire. I had a plan to restore vintage " cannned ham " trailers. Buy, restore and sell.

Then I researched it, prepared a model, and designed a shelter to protect the works in progress. I have a place with ten acres.( I have a degree in Marketing, my father was a partner in the top accounting firm in the world, and my daughter has her Masters in Finance ). I found out that even worn out canned hams were selling for between $ 500 and $ $1000, and most of the beautifully restored canned hams were selling for between $10K and $ 12K. and I would have to wait for a buyer to get paid. I did the math.

My research led me to a great soul who restores peoples canned hams. He charges about ten thousand dollars. I'm not sure if materials are extra. But he is guaranteed his fee. It takes him about eight months to finish a project. I did the math. This seemed like a smarter way to go financially, but you had to find clients and get the job, and the financial rewards were light.

I still might restore one for myself, in my spare time, for fun, as a hobby.

Here's what matters... you said you put your heart into the restoration of your first trailer, and you said that doing what you love is what matters. It's cool that you know where your heart is. That's a beautiful thing. Yeah...I follow my heart too…my daughter makes sure my head knows where my wallet is.

Sorry for talking business. I wouldn't have went there if you hadn't said that you were fixing it up the trailer to sell it.

So I retract what I said, your not a hater just a realist..

[mandolindave]

I use an enzyme treatment instead of the perfumed blue chemical.

You can get the green ( green in a few ways ) liquid enzyme treatment at any RV store. Or go a more economical route and just use Ridex, that you can get at most hardware stores, and some super markets.

Enzymes eat the smelly bacteria, but leave the good stuff to break down everything to liquid

Use Scott tissue that is cheaper than RV tissue and breaks down just as well.

Check out Poop Sheets by Phred
https://manmrk.net/tutorials/RV/phred/phredex.html
( it's not just about poop It's articles about all the technical aspects of RVs)

Also this forum's " forums " section has categories on all this stuff