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Old 08-27-2006, 11:51 AM   #1
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1975 24' Argosy 24
Burlington , Ontario
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toilet and dump valves

I have had numeros leaks in both the thedford toilet and dump valves.
I have found that it is best not to let them dry out the debrise from the waters and the waste get into the seals and they leak. I have replaced the valves and it is a job.
I did look at the valves and they are plastic, no metal. I put a pail under the dump valve outlet to check for leaking.
I then put 3 liters(quarts) of water into the toilet , applied two cups of pool (muriatic) acid to the water and dumped it into the holding tank.
I then did the same to the toilet.

I left it over night and in the morning there was no water in the test pail at the dump outlet. the toilet still held the same volume of water acid and I was most pleased.
I also appleid some white grease to the dump valve stems with a spray and all seems well ....for now

Rae
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Old 08-31-2006, 08:23 PM   #2
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Hi, Rae,

Well, it's hard to argue with success. Sometimes a bit of "matter" can get stuck in the valve, and just a little ride will cure it.

Let's hope this HOLDS for you.

Lamar

PS - Fill in your sig or your other stuff under the "User CP" link above so others will know what Airstream you have. (Unless it's a SECRET.)
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Old 09-04-2006, 09:09 AM   #3
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Leaking Black Water Gate valve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rae
I have had numeros leaks in both the thedford toilet and dump valves.
I have found that it is best not to let them dry out the debrise from the waters and the waste get into the seals and they leak. I have replaced the valves and it is a job.
I did look at the valves and they are plastic, no metal. I put a pail under the dump valve outlet to check for leaking.
I then put 3 liters(quarts) of water into the toilet , applied two cups of pool (muriatic) acid to the water and dumped it into the holding tank.
I then did the same to the toilet.

I left it over night and in the morning there was no water in the test pail at the dump outlet. the toilet still held the same volume of water acid and I was most pleased.
I also appleid some white grease to the dump valve stems with a spray and all seems well ....for now

Rae
Hi Rae, interesting post. I'm checking out all systems on my 76 31ft Sovereign and after "sweating" getting the gate valves to open (dry tanks), I finally got them open and discovered that my main tank gate valve leaks a steady little stream. The gray water tank valve is good to go. I noticed that the gate on the main tank does not completely seat when closed, judging by the clips that fasten the rod handle. It looks like its about an 1/8 to 1/4 from being completely closed. I suspect there is a bit of dried sludge lodged in the bottom of the gate slot. I have seen some references on this site to having a piece of the gasket get in there. I sure hope that is not the problem, that cannot be dissolved! I tried soaking with a few gallons of soapy water....no help. My latest attempt is to seal off the end of the dump outlet tube, close the grey water valve and open the Maint tank valve and pour in lots of soapy water. That floods both sides of the main gate valve and hopefully will float the blockage out of the grove. I have let it soak overnight and I haven't check on the results, yet. Fingers crossed!

Your use of Muriatic Acid intrigues me. Does that disolve the gunk? Since you had no water in the bucket, that means you did not have a valve leak, but did the valve leak BEFORE you put the acid/water in the tank?

Any other tips from anyone? I've looked at the valves from the top side and I sure do not want to replace one if I don't have to! Thanks, Bill
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:24 AM   #4
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1975 24' Argosy 24
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Valve leaks

In answer to the fellow who quiried my post.
The bucket that was mentioned was at the sewer outlet outside the trailer.
It was used to see if any product seaaped through the valaves.

My valves where closed and it seemed that the valves leaked fluid. and I could not clean the residual crap (pardon the expression) sufficiently to seal the toilet and or the holding tank.

The water and the acid disolved the CRAP and the valves sealed the units so that no fluid appeared in the bucket outside.
This probably would not work well if you could not get the valve to completely close. (unless you flilled the entire tanks up so that the acid would touch the valves.)

REMEMBER PUT THE ACID INTO THE WATER..NEVER THE WATER INTO THE ACID.
You did not indicate which valve was troublesome. the toilet or the dump valve.

I would suggest that every one do this once per season or year. When dumping the acid solution just be sure to dilute the acid with lots of water.

Rae Baker Burlington Ont.
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:58 AM   #5
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On my new '77 the valves are open and dry, don't know how many years.

I tried to close them but they are tight.

Is it ok to hit them with a soft wood block to try and close?

How hard are they to remove, I see two riveted access panels in the belly.
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Old 09-04-2006, 12:46 PM   #6
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As always thnxs for your good information and expertise. Will give your suggestion a try soon.

The guy up the street from you!
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Old 09-04-2006, 01:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lipets
On my new '77 the valves are open and dry, don't know how many years.

I tried to close them but they are tight.

Is it ok to hit them with a soft wood block to try and close?

How hard are they to remove, I see two riveted access panels in the belly.
Bob, I'm no expert on this, but I'm learning.

Since your gate valves are DRY, OPEN.....and FROZEN or nearly so, what you need, for starters, is lots of slick detergent liquid. I suggest you plug your outside dump outlet and then pour 10 gallons, or more, of soapy (use lots of liquid dish soap) water down your toilet. Since BOTH of your gate valves are now OPEN, this will partially flood both your Gray water tank and your Black water tank. If you don't like the idea of having water from the Black tank getting into the Gray tank, then pour the 10 gallons into the sink. You will now have soapy liquid on both sides of both valves. Let that soak overnight or even longer. Then see if you can close and open your valves. You may have to fill both tanks completely full to get enough liquid lubricant to make them function. And hopefully there will be no dried sludge stuck in the botton of either gate valve track! Good luck, Bill
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Old 09-04-2006, 04:05 PM   #8
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There are also rebuild kits for the gate valves that are not hard to put together. Once you lubricate the seal and blade be sure to work it a few times to distribute the lube.
A visual inspection of the seal will tell you if it's time for a rebuild...that or if it still dosen't move after lubing it up... don't forget the blade shaft too.
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Old 09-04-2006, 06:06 PM   #9
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Leaky gate valve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenCoombe
There are also rebuild kits for the gate valves that are not hard to put together. Once you lubricate the seal and blade be sure to work it a few times to distribute the lube.
A visual inspection of the seal will tell you if it's time for a rebuild...that or if it still dosen't move after lubing it up... don't forget the blade shaft too.
Glen, putting the gate valve together is not the problem, that will be easy.......it's getting access to it and getting it out of there is THE problem....and it's no small task!

What do you use to lubricant the seals and rod?

I just checked my Main tank gate valve and all that "soaking in soapy water" was for naught! It still leaks a steady little stream. and the gate does not completely seat. It probably has the dreaded "seal in the track" desease. I'm now thinking of using Muriatic Acid as mentioned above by Rae Baker, just in case it's hard sludge in the track that is causing the leak. All you Muriatic Acid experts chime in here and tell me all the "cautions" about this approach. There must be some.

Using a bent coat hanger wire to clean out the track has been mentioned....how do you get at the valve seat? Do you remove the toilet and go in from that direction? That seems to be the shortest route to the valve seat. Is it a big job to remove the toilet and put it back? Any special tools or special stuff needed? Like special seals, etc.?

Help and advice welcomed. Bill
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