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Old 07-05-2006, 09:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
Tim the blue 15 gallon tote we use fills up fast after a couple showers ....your grey tanks need to be at least 20 gallons.
I think he meant that he would use 2 tanks of that size, for a total of 25-30 gallons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
You don't want all that water weight at the rear period ,don't do it ,your frame will not like it .
This has been pointed out quite a bit in the past, and I'm sure its a problem.
What never seems to be discussed, (and Tim, this would be a great topic of discussion for your show), is how this can be overcome. What, if anything, can be done to make it so that your frame WILL like it? Add more steel? where? box the frame? weld another c-channel under the existing one? add more cross-members? reinforce the frame-to-shell connections (how?) Whether its tanks or a spare tire or bicycle rack or whatever, it seems that lots of us would like to add some heavy stuff back there. And since in many cases, the frame is being repaired or altered in some fashion, anyway, might as well make these changes while we've got the whole thing opened up.
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Old 07-05-2006, 10:58 AM   #16
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Yep, that was the idea, two tanks to make up around 25-30 gallons. My frame rails are 4" so I just did some quick math and came up with needing two tanks in two seperate cavities in the frame. I'll check closely when I decide where to mount one.

My frame is already boxed in, so that should be good. I need to take it to the welder to have the rusted through parts repaired and was thinking if I could add some more strength to locate the tank near the rear.

The axles seem pretty far back on my Ambassador.
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:52 AM   #17
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Tim:

If you move your tank to near or between the axles, size and weight are not so much an issue.

An good example is this placement on a brand new Safari.

Sergei
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Old 07-05-2006, 12:20 PM   #18
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Tim,

If you locate the tank forward of the axles, it doesn't matter if it hangs down a little (3+ inches) . I put a 28 gal tank in my '59, and I don't worry about things getting knocked off because it's within the approach angle of the hitch and tires.

It also locates the two tank vents in a closet, and under the kitchen sink.

Just a friendly suggestion. It's your baby.
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:52 PM   #19
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Makes good sense. I cannot have anything lower on the back of the trailer because I can barely make my driveway approach as it is.

Putting together a draining setup back there will be a challange. Expecially since the black tank is on the curb side and that is where the original dump connection is.

As of my other thread, *Toilet won't budge* I'm getting deeper into this trailer than I first intended. I'll be replumbing everything including drain lines so I might as well move the grey tank toward the axles.

So what you're saying Mark & Sergei, is to let the tank drop a few inches below the belly pan to gain more tank capacity?
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Old 07-05-2006, 04:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Safari Tim
So what you're saying Mark & Sergei, is to let the tank drop a few inches below the belly pan to gain more tank capacity?
That was my take on it, but everybody's ideas are different. I would only do something like this as part of a complete frame-out rehab. Otherwise it's a lot of work.

I plan to leave the blackwater tank in the rear, and use a macerator pump to move the stuff forward and have it discharge just ahead of the streetside wheel, near where the graywater tank outlet is located. There will also be a manual valve on the blackwater tank, in case of a macerator pump failure. The macerator will fit inside the bellypan, so I will only have the manual valve cap protruding below the skin.

Here's a picture of the outlet of the graywater tank. I built an insulated fiberglass cover to protect it from road hazards, not shown.
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Old 07-05-2006, 09:40 PM   #21
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Tim:

Like in the photo I sent earlier, current Airstreams usually have the tanks near the axles. They extend down below the C channel frame and belly pan by about 5”.

They need to do this to achieve 35 to 45 gallon capacities.

My 14 gallon black is at the rear but BELOW THE FLOOR. It is drained to a common outlet just behind the 36 gallon GREY, at a point just back of the rear wheels.

There we have installed a macerator in a kind of possum belly cabinet.

In this manner we should be able to “back wash” the Black Tank with the Grey Water. We have also installed a faucet and the No Fuss Flush there.


In my case the frame and floor were in excellent shape so we did all the work from below by raising the trailer on stands.

Sergei
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:38 AM   #22
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Hey markdoan ,
thats some real nice work your doing there.

Scott
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:55 PM   #23
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Here we go again.

I cut out the belly pan just aft of the rear wheels.

I don't want to have the tank drop below the frame rails because of clearance issues backup up my driveway.

Would it be ok to remove or relocate the crossmember that is closest to the axles? If I relocated it about 10" closer to the front of the trailer I could fit a 25 gallon tank that did not drop below the frame.

Also my main frame rails are already boxed in, so is that enough support, or do I need to add more to it?

Do I need to add more strength to the cross members around the tank?

Mark. Can you tell me more about your maccerator idea? Also how is your grey tank mounted in the photo?
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Safari Tim
Mark. Can you tell me more about your maccerator idea?
Tim,

I have mocked up the macerator pump and the black tank in the photo below. The first picture shows the black tank resting on a sheet of plywood representing the floor, with a tee attached to the 2" bronze tank outlet. The mock-up is resting on a couple of sawhorses in front of the airstream.

To the right of the tee is the macerator pump. The outlet of the pump is piped forward about 10 feet, then out the side of the belly just in front of the streetside wheelwell, which is next to the outlet of the greywater tank. I don't show a valve between the tee and the pump, but one could be added if desired.

To the left is a 2" Valterra valve, which will be inside the belly with an extended handle. The outlet of the valve elbows down through the skin and will terminate in a sewer hose connection. This outlet is only needed if the pump gets jammed or faults out somehow.

The next picture shows the mockup flipped over for better visibility.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:29 PM   #25
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. . . . Also how is your grey tank mounted in the photo?
Tim,

The greywater tank has a 3" high lip that is not visible in the picture. I have attached a drawing of the tank.

The tank fits tightly between two crossmembers forward of the axle. I removed one crossmember, and added two that were spaced 24.5" apart with the flanges out. I also added solid plates above the tank to protect it from screws and nails coming through the floor. The frame modifications are shown in the second picture.

The tank sits inside the frame, and I bolted 2" wide steel flats to the bottom flanges to support the tank on the lips, along most of the length of the tank. The bolted on flats are shown in the last photo.
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Old 07-31-2006, 06:04 PM   #26
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Tim:

It is OK to move your cross member ahead 10” or so.

I did that, as did Mark.

Mark’s frame is probably stronger than the original because of the plates he welded in to protect the top of the tank from an accidental screw.

Keep in mind that you will likely use some sort of angle bracket to hold the tank. If this runs along either side of your tank, and is attached frame to frame, it will also have the effect of strengthening the whole undercarriage.


Sergei
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Old 07-31-2006, 06:48 PM   #27
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Tim:
It is OK to move your cross member ahead 10” or so.
If you think through the mechanics of it, the crossmembers don't do anything more than keep the floor from flexing, and keep the main frame rails from twisting. Most of the weight of the shell and appliances is supported by the outriggers and the main frame.

I wouldn't worry about it, either.
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Old 07-31-2006, 08:02 PM   #28
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Thanks guys.

I crawled back under there tonight to start cutting away some more belly pan and decided it probably is not worth the extra 10 gallons or so.

I'll probably skip the idea. If I were doing a shell off then ya, I'd go for it. But all my work is already cramped down there.

Thanks Mark for the nice detailed photos. Really spells it out. Where did you have your grey tank made. It looks different than the others I've seen.

Please excuse the crude drawing

Here is my first crack at the grey water system. The plan now is to have the 18 gallon or so tank between the 22" cross members and 53" frame rails. And not extend below the rails. I'll drill a 2" hole in the curbside cross memebers to allow the drain from the grey tank to meet up with the natrual position of the black tank valve. At that point I'll tie in the drain from the tub which is also below the subfloor.

The two sinks will enter the top of the tank on the curbside with the drain lines runing on top of the subfloor. The vent(s) not show will go up through the floor and up a closet to the roof.

Will this work? My concern is having the tub drain under the subfloor like it did when it was built. If I can't. I'll have to build a support for it to sit on to run the drain line above the floor.
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