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11-30-2011, 11:35 AM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
2004 34' Classic S/O
Stafford
, Virginia
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
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Sanitize Black Water Tank with Bleach
Sanitize Black Water Tank with Bleach
I have looked through this thread, but I could not find an answer on using bleach to sanitize the holding tanks on the used AS (2004 Classic 34’ I just bought..
We are smelling a foul odor coming from the toilet area, we filled and flushed x3, ran the tank flusher for 30 mins……
I now want to try 3 gals of bleach in a ¾ full tanks over night…..but will the bleach harm anything in the tanks?
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11-30-2011, 11:47 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Sioux Falls
, South Dakota
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,403
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Maybe it's not the tank . . . maybe the vent was not installed properly or maybe the toilet gasket is missing or failed.
3 gallons huh? Now'd be the time for a dump valve failure with that 3 hot gallons in there . . . just thinking.
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11-30-2011, 11:47 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2005 30' Classic
...
, ...
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 512
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I would suggest using a bio-enzyme type product like Walex Products Co - EXODOR Bio-Pak - Sewer Chemicals - Camping World instead of using bleach.
Fill the tank 3/4 from full, add two packets of the above product, add two or more bags of cubed ice, and go for a drive to slush stuff around. Park without draining for up to two weeks, then drain and flush a time or two.
If needed, repeat the process ....
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11-30-2011, 12:02 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2005 30' Classic
...
, ...
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 512
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... and fill the tank before leaving it sit for the two weeks...
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11-30-2011, 12:11 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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If the toilet is full of water and you have a smell problem you probably have a bad base gasket on the toilet or a cracked vent pipe somewhere. If your blackwater tank is nasty you should only smell stuff when you are flushing the toilet. A gallon of bleach won't hurt anything for short periods of time but it is hard on rubber seals. Have you tried the holding tank additives? I would followup with some seal lubricant after the bleach job. I would fill it all the way up or tow it to get the bleach everywhere. You can also get some toilet friendly toilet cleaner that works pretty well without killing the wiper seals. You might also check the roof vent to see if it is open.
Perry
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11-30-2011, 12:17 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1978 31' Excella 500
Venice
, California
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,067
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You should reconsider sanitizing the black water tank. Bacteria are your friends in this area and you want a nice rich organic environment for them to do their magic. The tank is supposed to vent gas(a natural by-product of decomposition) through the roof. If you smell it inside, something's amiss and you'll need to find out what and seal it up.
__________________
"Not all who are laundering are washed" say Bill & Heidi
'78 Excella 500,"The Silver Pullit". vacuum over hydraulic disc brakes, center bath, rear twin. '67 Travelall 1200 B 4X4 WBCCI 3737
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11-30-2011, 12:19 PM
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#7
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4 Rivet Member
2004 34' Classic S/O
Stafford
, Virginia
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
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I started with normal tank stuff, but we still got the smell...We flushed the tank a few times, put ice and tank chemicals/water in the tanks, drove around a few miles, dumped and flushed the tanks again.....but the next morning when we opened the AS’s door, we could still smell the odor, not strong, but still there.
The vent is ok, I will check the seal next.
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11-30-2011, 12:20 PM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
2004 34' Classic S/O
Stafford
, Virginia
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114
If the toilet is full of water and you have a smell problem you probably have a bad base gasket on the toilet or a cracked vent pipe somewhere. If your blackwater tank is nasty you should only smell stuff when you are flushing the toilet. A gallon of bleach won't hurt anything for short periods of time but it is hard on rubber seals. Have you tried the holding tank additives? I would followup with some seal lubricant after the bleach job. I would fill it all the way up or tow it to get the bleach everywhere. You can also get some toilet friendly toilet cleaner that works pretty well without killing the wiper seals. You might also check the roof vent to see if it is open.
Perry
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What/how do you lube the seals? (that reads like a line from a bad joke)
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11-30-2011, 12:25 PM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
2007 25' International CCD FB
Holladay
, Utah
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air-Texas
Sanitize Black Water Tank with Bleach
I have looked through this thread, but I could not find an answer on using bleach to sanitize the holding tanks on the used AS (2004 Classic 34 I just bought..
We are smelling a foul odor coming from the toilet area, we filled and flushed x3, ran the tank flusher for 30 mins
I now want to try 3 gals of bleach in a ¾ full tanks over night
..but will the bleach harm anything in the tanks?
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I have put bleach in all my tanks prior to winterizing 3 times now without ill effect. But I don't think that is your problem. There should be no smell coming from the toilet even when your black and gray tanks are full. You either have a vent problem, a gasket problem or the water trap is dry. In my toilet there is some kind of trap above the black tank which fills with water and "seals" out the odors from below.
After the first year in storage we had the same odor problem you do. Just before I tore out the offending toilet, an older and wiser head who is actually mechanically competent told me to just flush it a couple of times. Voila, problem solved. The water in the trap had evaporated. I don't know if your toilet has the same setup as mine, as mine is not factory standard, but it is worth a try before you get more drastic.
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11-30-2011, 12:25 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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You just open the bottle of lube and poor it into the toilet. You don't have to stick your hand down the toilet and rub KY on the seals or anything. It is probably glycerine.
Perry
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11-30-2011, 12:47 PM
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#11
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air-Texas
What/how do you lube the seals? (that reads like a line from a bad joke)
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This worked on our 63 Safari when the flush seal went bad...very hard to open/close.
Off the water...empty/soak up bowl, add a little Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Wait 12hrs (hard part)......, open/close manually if necessary , Repeat clean as needed, and finish with a good flush and fresh chems.
Ours did work well afterward.
Bob
__________________
"You don't know where you've been until you leave, enjoy life" RLC
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11-30-2011, 01:08 PM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
2000 25' Excella
Northern
, California
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 247
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Adding 3 gallons of bleach to your 3/4-full holding tank is a lot of bleach. That would mean a concentration of +-10%...which is a lot considering a typical fresh water sanitizing is done with +- .1%. How are you going to get rid of that solution?
For most of us mortals, we're never going to get it to smell sweet down there, so if you have odor inside, as others have noted, something else is wrong, as in vent or gasket. Does your toilet bowl hold water?
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11-30-2011, 01:24 PM
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#13
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Moderator Emeritus
1964 26' Overlander
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Anna
, Illinois
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,705
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Sanitize Black Water Tank with Bleach
Greetings Air-Texas!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air-Texas
I started with normal tank stuff, but we still got the smell...We flushed the tank a few times, put ice and tank chemicals/water in the tanks, drove around a few miles, dumped and flushed the tanks again.....but the next morning when we opened the AS’s door, we could still smell the odor, not strong, but still there.
The vent is ok, I will check the seal next.
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I noticed that you mention this coach being new to you. If it has sat unused for an extended period of time, is it possible that some of the odor that you are experiencing might be coming from a drain trap that is permitting odor from the wash water tank to enter the coach? I experienced this problem with my coach after is had been stored for an extended period of time and the shallow drain trap below the shower had dried out and was permitting the odor to enter.
Good luck with your investigation!
Kevin
__________________
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI (Lifetime Member)/VAC #7864
AIR #827
1964 Overlander International
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
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11-30-2011, 01:24 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,095
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One way to "start fresh" is to get the tank flushed with one of the hydro-flushers. It is expensive, past $150, but then you get to start with a clean tank. I had it done in an older trailer before I changed the valve seal and it seemed to do a good job.
Do you use the de-odorizer in the tank when you camp? Do you leave a little dd-oderizer and some water in the tank between uses? Does the toilet hold water over the seal.
I would suspect a leak from the toilet to tank seal. That is where the problem was when I had a similar problem.
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11-30-2011, 01:40 PM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
2000 25' Excella
Northern
, California
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 247
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Excellent suggestion on the p-traps. I've experienced that one, and you can add water to see. Another problem can be from accumulated crud in the trap, sometimes due to excessive water conservation, and one easy way to deal with it is to remove the kitchen and bath traps and clean them out if necessary. My bathroom trap was about 50% blocked with some unsavory substance...accumulated soap, oils, etc. Yuk. The shower trap is more of a challenge. In any event, odors do indeed come from the gray water tank, and that requires periodic freshening.
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11-30-2011, 02:16 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
1984 31' Airstream310
Ajo
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,649
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We've had that problem if we've sat around too much. With the grey tank, boiling water frees them.With the black tank a bag of ice cubes and a bunch of water to slop around while cruising cleans out the tank just fine. We are carefull to garbage the sink strainers, rather than compound the problem by running it down the drain. We also don't use paper in the black water, a little bag that gets dumped daily is a better idea for us after so many years.
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11-30-2011, 03:20 PM
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#17
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4 Rivet Member
2004 34' Classic S/O
Stafford
, Virginia
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
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Thanks for all of the great ideas. To answer some of the questions..
1. I understand that the Bacteria are my friends, but I want them to be related to my family....So we will start our own family of friendly bacteria!
2. I added water to all of the traps the first day.
3. I would add water to the 10% bleach solution, as I drained it into my home sewer, I answer to pollution is dilution.
4. The bowl does hold water, and flushes well.
5. My As came with a hydro-flusher, and I used it to fill the tank for 3 complete flushes.
6. I do use de-odorizer in the tank when I camp? My last AS never had a smell problem.
7. Yes, I do leave a little dd-oderizer and some water in the tank between uses
Soooo, I will check the seal this weekend, and let everyone know!
Thanks again for the fast replys
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11-30-2011, 03:23 PM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
2004 34' Classic S/O
Stafford
, Virginia
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Leary
We've had that problem if we've sat around too much. With the grey tank, boiling water frees them.With the black tank a bag of ice cubes and a bunch of water to slop around while cruising cleans out the tank just fine. We are carefull to garbage the sink strainers, rather than compound the problem by running it down the drain. We also don't use paper in the black water, a little bag that gets dumped daily is a better idea for us after so many years.
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Thanks Mike,
We do the same things...I hope that after a fresh start, we can can get back into that routine.
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11-30-2011, 03:31 PM
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#19
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Moderator Emeritus
1964 26' Overlander
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Anna
, Illinois
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,705
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Sanitize Black Water Tank with Bleach
Greetings Air-Texas!
This is likely a long-shot, but it something that happened to me with my Overlander shortly after I purchased it in 1995. The seals around the black and gray water plumbing vents had failed, and if I left the bahtroom window ajar and one of the windows in the bedroom ajar with the rear roof vent cracked -- odors from the vents were pulled into the coach under certain weather conditions. It may be a peculiarity with my coach, but I thought that I might mention it as a possibility . . . my guess is that the small vents installed above the shower on some coaches could draw in odors from the tank vents if left open while the coach is stored.
Kevin
__________________
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI (Lifetime Member)/VAC #7864
AIR #827
1964 Overlander International
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
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11-30-2011, 03:38 PM
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#20
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Hi, Air-Texas. Welcome to the forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamiak
Adding 3 gallons of bleach to your 3/4-full holding tank is a lot of bleach. That would mean a concentration of +-10%...which is a lot considering a typical fresh water sanitizing is done with +- .1%. How are you going to get rid of that solution?
For most of us mortals, we're never going to get it to smell sweet down there, so if you have odor inside, as others have noted, something else is wrong, as in vent or gasket. Does your toilet bowl hold water?
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Ordinary household bleach is 3% sodium hypochlorite. So you would get maybe 0.3% chlorine, not 10%. Since the hypochlorite will react with any organic material that is present to produce chloramines, the amount of free chlorine remaining will be much lower.
If there is a large accumulation of organic solids, it may take more than 3 gallons to break down all the organic material.
I agree with others that you should be sure there isn't a problem elsewhere. Sometimes people mistake propane leaks for a sewer odor. Vent pipe may not be attached, toilet to flange seal may leak. Though rare you may have a crack in the top of the tank.
In any case, yes, the tradeoff you make in running up the chlorine levels is that you will shorten the life of the seals and gaskets, and may end up having to replace them as a result.
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