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Old 10-28-2003, 03:18 PM   #15
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Toaster:

As for the blackwater and greywater tanks:
1. I haven't finalized whether I'll be going mid-bath/rear bed or stick with original rear bath.
2. If I stick with rear bath, I plan to use a macerator pump to move the blackwater contents forward through a 1" line to a streetside outlet just forward the wheel well.
3. Also thinking about a Sani-con type pump from the gray tank, which would let me backflush greywater through the black tank, then back to the greytank and out.
4. If I put a full shower and tub in the back where the closet was, it lines up well with the inlet to the grey tank, just need to cut some holes through four crossmember. Gives me about 2 inches downpitch since the greywater tank inlet is about 5 inches below floor grade.
5. the vent locations end up under the stove, which will also serve as drain for the kitchen sinks and A/C condensate, and directly across, next to the refrigerator in the front wardrobe. Both vents run up inside the walls and will tee together at a roof vent near A/C. The toilet vent will remain where it is.
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Old 10-28-2003, 03:30 PM   #16
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Greytank:

Toaster:
The rear location won't work. The 3" outlet is perfectly centered on the shackle. (i've got all this laid out on Autocad, so it's easy to see)
You can specify as many other inlet and outlets as you want, but the main 3" outlet is unmovable.
Another consideration-the tank is 24.00 inches wide. When we moved the crossmembers i made a 24.5" space. This tank may be a tight fit for existing frame.
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Old 10-28-2003, 03:37 PM   #17
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Markdoane

Wow, how did you get the body off the frame?

Is it the body behind the frame ? Can you post a few pics of the whole scene?

Hart
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Old 10-28-2003, 04:06 PM   #18
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Greytank

Hart:
Here's a picture a few weeks ago, before we welded on the new frame parts. It's snizzling now, so outside work is probably finished for the year.
(Don't know your 10, 'snizzle' is Minnesotan for a freezing snow drizzle)
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Old 10-28-2003, 04:07 PM   #19
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Forgot to add picture. . . .
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Old 10-28-2003, 04:22 PM   #20
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Originally posted by qqq
Markdoane

Wow, how did you get the body off the frame?

Is it the body behind the frame ? Can you post a few pics of the whole scene?

Hart
Mark, Greg and myself are all in the middle of body off floor repairs. Greg has it the worst. He had a lot of rust through on his frame and he's building a new frame. I faired a little better then Mark and had minimal frame damage. I'm actually have the body back on now.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...&threadid=6554
That's a thread that all three of us has been contributing too. Plenty of pictures.
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Old 10-28-2003, 11:34 PM   #21
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59toaster:

You mentioned that you were thinking of fabricating a greytank out of aluminum.

I am having All-Rite (www.all-rite.com) custom make a plastic grey tank, with all the fittings right now. They'll quote you a price over the phone. Mine is 4"x54"x22", and will fit between two cross-members, which are 24" on center. The tank will be wrapped with foil-bubble insulation, and sit on 1" steel angle brackets. It will drain to a T, where one pipe goes through a Drainmaster electric dump valve, then a check valve and into the black tank, and the other pipe goes to the drain outlet.

Attached is an image showing how the tanks fit in the frame. Mentioned elsewhere on this thread was talk of a macerator. My black tank is connected to a Drainmaster dump valve, which is connected to a Jabsco macerator pump. The Drainmaster fits inside the galvanized metal box, and the macerator could have been mounted either half-way into the box, or fully inside the bumper box. Since I'm still building this, it has not been tested in the real-world.

Christopher
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Old 10-28-2003, 11:48 PM   #22
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Greytank

Really great work, Chris.
Aren't you concerned about the macerator pump sucking air once the tank is half empty?
I was going to build a small sump with three inch elbow angled down 45į to a low heel Tee, with the pump at the top and a 2" pick-up to the bottom of the capped tee. (I can send you a .dwg if you're interested, it's a little hard to describe verbally)
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Old 10-29-2003, 03:00 AM   #23
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Toaster,

Thanks for the link, most interesting, I was on the road for 2 months & missed all these posts.

Mark,

got all the pics & answers I wanted in the great september thread.

I'm impressed with the skill you guys have!
I can't even consider removing a few rivets to take a peek at the frame! although I'd love to know if it's still solid.

Hart
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Old 10-29-2003, 10:39 AM   #24
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Mark,

The macerator pump makes a different sound when it gets to air, rather than liquid. There are no p-traps in a black tank, so the air that gets sucked out of a black tank is replaced via the tank's vent through the roof. Also, the switch for the macerator is not the type that you turn "on" and walk away, it requires you to hold it "on", because it only takes about 90 seconds to empty a full tank the size of mine.

The particular macerator pump (Jabsco 18590-1010) has run-dry protection, so it won't burn out right away when there isn't any more liquid to pump. Be sure your sump pump has this protection. Also, the macerator pump clamps right onto the existing 3" sewer outlet, so it is very easy to install, and doesn't stick below the belly pan, like I'm assuming a sump pump hanging off a 45 elbow would. In my particular case, the macerator runs horizontally right out from the tank, and is bolted to the frame under the bumper storage area. The 25' long, 1" diameter hose is stored in there as well.

Christopher
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Old 10-29-2003, 11:02 AM   #25
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Chris:

Man you tickle me to death with all the hightech graphics and the upgrades your doing to your coach.



Anyone:

Let me ask this. Other then making the plumbing that Mark addressed in his plans being a little more complicated why is there not the option to dump the gray into the black from the factory?

I understand that there are instances where they may need to be dumped indipendently but if you could dump the gray into the black after draining the black that would let you get a little rince action going.

My black is above the floor so this would never be possible but on coaches with both tanks below the floor you could easily dump a fair amount of a full gray into a empty black without pumps.
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Old 10-29-2003, 11:16 AM   #26
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This is a good question and leads to the reason that Airstream is going to a one tank system. It is also less complicatted and I am sure saves money and time on the build. A good flush thru the black makes sense.

The only negatives I can think of are if the trailer is not level then you may not get all of the grey out, or you may have a reverse flow. Also if the black tank has a problem, leaky valve, stuck valve, or blockage you are really stuck. If you are on a trip, and doing the trip with just overnights you may not need to dump the black for a week, but the gray could need it daily.
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Old 10-29-2003, 11:38 AM   #27
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gerbermania,

I see your existing black tank is 7x48x22. This is 7,392 cu. inches, which equates to 32 gallons by my math. But you have it as just 17 gallons. Is the "cutout" area by the drain accounting for the difference, or am I getting something wrong?

-- RL
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Old 10-29-2003, 02:32 PM   #28
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Grey tank mod.

Christopher:
Yeah, I understand about the different sound and the run dry protection, but the problem I see I that as soon as the pump starts seeing 'air' at the suction side, you lose pumping efficiency and start pumping foam. If it were a centrifugal pump, you'd lose prime as well, but Jabsco are flex impeller pump so that's not a problem.
Yeah, having a small sump does create some hangdown problems, but i think I have enough space and am close enough to the axle that wont be a problem for me.
How do you post those great renderings? File type?
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