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Old 02-25-2009, 11:04 AM   #15
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MarkR-- More fantastic drawings, I wish I could draw like that, outstanding work. Sounds like you've got a handle on it now, and thanks for starting this very timely thread, as I am about a week away from getting to the drain/venting plumbing on mine. My tank was also from PPL and looks quite similar to yours, I think mine is model H664.

Toastie-- I can't wait for you to get back to work on your trailer. I love watching your progress.

Ryan-- First I'll say my gray tank mounting idea is completlely ripped off from Frank aka 62Overlander, if you haven't checked out his Annalumanum blog you should. And I'd say mine is definitely "over-engineered" but that's okay. I'm adding some weight in some areas, but I'll be subtracting it in others, like when I toss my giant broke-down furnace next year. If you checked through my blog, you'll see that I replaced the rear three frame x-members with new steel c-channel, and the x-member that supports the new gray tank happens to be one of the new ones. This was fortuitous for two reasons, the first of which is that it's stronger than the old x-member that was there. But the second reason is that the old x-members has a very shallow lip and, as you say, it's 46-year-old steel that was thinning in some areas. The new one is a full c-channel, just like the main frame rail, and has plenty of "lip" to support the tank flange. And the other long-wise support is the removeable one of course. There is no support at all on the back edge (no tank flange there anyway), but the two supports for the long sides should be plenty adequate.

So, due to the frame x-member replacements I performed, I didn't really face the same issue that you're talking about. Potential solutions for your issue would be to weld in a new steel x-member made of c-channel, or to weld a new lower "lip" onto an existing x-member, in order to support the new gray tank.

I also don't plan to drive great distances with a full gray tank. Ideally I'll be able to dump it somewhere nearby when I exit a campsite. But, I believe my supports are engineered to withstand a long pull if need be.

Great thread, very informative.

-Marcus
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:35 AM   #16
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I was an art major in college, and my technical drawings aren't as nice as that. Very nice work.
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:05 PM   #17
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MarkR,
Both my '06 and '87 have only one vent pipe protruding from the roof. And both of my trailers have anti-siphon devices in the drain pluming. So you may be able to get by with one vent pipe as long as you use one of these anti-siphon devices in your drain runs.

I got this pictures



From this web site

Vent Pro - RV Parts, RV Supplies & RV Accessories for 5th Wheels, ToyHaulers, Campers

But I will post better pictures of one of the anti-siphon devices that is installed in one of my trailers when I get home from work tonight.

Hopefully you didn't cut that second hole in the roof yet
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:23 PM   #18
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As promised, here are some pictures of the anti-siphon device in our '87. There is one under the kitchn sink and one under the sink in the head. There is nothing remarkable about the installation other than they probably need to be above the "P" trap. Let us know what you decide.

PS - Nice technical drawing too.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:43 PM   #19
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Marcus,

Nice to hear there is a significant amount of steel supporting both sides of your tank. My tanks are due to come in on Friday, so the head scratching begins Friday night... I plan on building up the frames with angle iron welded to the main part of the frame.

DIETZ645,

I've thought of using a device like this to vent the black tank. I was advised not to by a reputable RV shop in town because 'stuff' could get in the valve and block it open. What is the distance between the top of the tank and valve? Were those installed by the factory? I could hide one of those in a cabinet and no one would ever know...
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:40 AM   #20
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Quote:
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DIETZ645,

I've thought of using a device like this to vent the black tank. I was advised not to by a reputable RV shop in town because 'stuff' could get in the valve and block it open. What is the distance between the top of the tank and valve? Were those installed by the factory? I could hide one of those in a cabinet and no one would ever know...
R&KWeber,
Those anti-siphon devices are on both our '06 and '87 and they came that way from the factory. But both the lines that they are on drain into the gray tank. I don't think the black tank would need an anti-siphon device becuase there are no "P" traps in the plumbing leading to the black tank. The only thing that drains to the black tank is the throne and that is a straight shot. I will have to look and see where our black tank plumbs into the vent pipe (somewhere in the closet I am sure). The devices are about 2-3 feet above the floor and the tanks are under the floor in both my coaches. I think the important thing is to have them higher than the "P" trap. In the kitchen pictures you can see the elevation above the traps.
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:11 AM   #21
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Carl,

That's great, thanks. I may use one of these on my black tank. My original toilet has a 2" threaded fitting on the back. I can come out of it horizontally and elbow up into a cabinet behind the toilet. Any solids would have to travel a long way to reach the vent. I think any tank needs a vent of some kind to introduce air as the liquid drains while emptying the tank.

Ryan.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r&kweber View Post

DIETZ645,

I've thought of using a device like this to vent the black tank. I was advised not to by a reputable RV shop in town because 'stuff' could get in the valve and block it open. What is the distance between the top of the tank and valve? Were those installed by the factory? I could hide one of those in a cabinet and no one would ever know...
I'm not a plumber, so I could be wrong (and usually am), but I think the anti siphon device is really just a way to let air into the system and not for simple gravity venting (and should be (thankfully) fine for the lines going to the gray tank). I think the black tank itself really needs a way for that air (gas) to "escape" on an ongoing, more continual basis. Otherwise there might be a significant problem when pushing the foot pedal down. I don't know this to be factual and don't know from experience what might happen, but think I remember reading something about it.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:41 PM   #23
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Mark,
I believe you to be correct too. The black tank should definitley vent through the vent stack going through the roof and no anti-siphon device should be required becuase there is no fluids to siphon from anywhere in the black water system.

I think if you put one of those devices on your kitchen sink leg and another in the bathrooom vanity leg you will be OK with the one vent stack you have in your drawing.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:57 PM   #24
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c'mon guys, you wanted to see my black tank time bomb bouncing down the highway? Thanks for the reality check, that makes perfect sense.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Otherwise there might be a significant problem when pushing the foot pedal down.
That gave me a rather disturbing mental picture.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:26 PM   #26
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Center Bath

This may not be the exact correct forum to put this in but since it is plumbing related AND related to my original questions, I'm going to go ahead and ask here on this thread.

So I've fallen in love w/the idea of a center "wet bath" and have been working on a layout. My questions are mostly material questions so maybe it doesn't really belong here . . . anyway, I'm thinking about fabricating an aluminum bath, at least the pan, the seat and the exterior wall panel. The 2 end panels/walls could be some other material as long as it was water proof/resistant and single pieces (I know I'll want to "warm it up" and this might be the opportunity to do that).

Is there a problem making the pan out of aluminum?
What is/are the problem(s)?
What Alloy should I use or does it matter in a shower pan that will be used 3 or 4 times every few months?

I'm thinking it's a stand alone aluminum structure that is then housed in plywood paneling that will match the rest of the interior. I think (and sometimes my thinking is screwy) that by building it and then "placing it" vs. attaching some parts to the floor and some parts to the exterior wall and some parts independent of the existing wall or floor, that it will be more likely to stay water tight . . . ?

The model shows the sink opposite the toilet, I may change that. The model also shows how the pan is made then how the seat "spills" into the pan and then the exterior wall panel spills onto the seat. I may decide to build the exterior wall panel as smaller horizontal "shingles" that get "tighter" as it hits the sharper part of the arch . . . The edges of the pan are turned up 3" and the edges of the seat and the wall are turned roughly an inch. Building it as a unit seems to make it so I could be pretty fussy about those joints . . .

Anyway, mostly I'm interested to know what might be the reasons NOT to build the pan and seat out of aluminum.

Thanks,
MarkR
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