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Old 01-14-2008, 01:17 PM   #1
More than one rivet loose
 
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My Black tank leak

Well here I sit at North Dallas RV. It took a while but they found the leaks. Yes two of them. The first leak came from the seal between the toilet and the toilet flange. This is where the water is coming into the trailer. The seond leak was more elusive. The threaded flange in the tank that the toilet flange screws into is seperated in for left side of the tank. THe cause: Probable overtightning of the toilet flange.

First option. Replace the tank. Second, repair it with epoxy or plastic welder.
I was present them Randy of North Dallas was talking to the factory. I agreed to have it repaired over replacement. Two reasons: One it was going to take several days to get the tank here. Read several days in a hotel at my expense. Second: it is going to snow in a couple of days. I really do not want to be here when that happens.

Fixing the tank is cheaper for the factory. In exchange if the fix fails within the next 5 years they will replace the tank.

I hope to back on the road this afternoon.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:28 PM   #2
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Safe travels Michelle, to me you made a sound judgement call on the fix over replacement in light of the 5 year replacement option. Gets you back on the road faster.


BTW - my boys are still looking for your cat.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:42 PM   #3
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it's nice 2 have the extra years protection...

but get it IN writing. because the 'creative warranty' issues are dependent on 1 or 2 people that work in j/c still being there...

i'm skeptical this repair will work long term, but understand about not wanting to wait for a tank.

does't the notion it's 'loose at the seal but so tight it cracked' seem a bit like double speak?

yes over tightening at the toilet may be part of the cause...

but the tank support/banding may NOT be snug enough up to the flooring/frame...

so that when ever the tank has much content, it starts to pull DOWN away from the toilet...

IF your tank is hanging at ALL by the flange area, there will be recurrent issues...

so ya better think hard about keeping it very empty when traveling...

thanks for the update on your poo pot...

too bad we don't use litter boxes

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-14-2008, 02:21 PM   #4
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From someone that just had their toilet out...
It is possible to not have the toilet tight enough on the closet flange, but to have the closet flange too tight going into the tank. They are two seperate places that need tightening. Not too much, not too little, but just right, like Goldilocks and the three leaks.
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Old 01-14-2008, 02:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
...It is possible to not have the toilet tight enough on the closet flange, but to have the closet flange too tight going into the tank... like Goldilocks and the three leaks.
gotcha, that makes sense.

yea i've had the honor of replacing the toilet 3 times in the last 2 years...

including one shipped 3000 miles 2 me. u should have seen the commotion at the post office...

when i walked in and asked....

"i'm here for my general delivery mail, have you got a toilet bowl for me?"

not only are the attachments different but length of the lag screws used is critical...

the ones that came with the sea-land pots are too long and if used correctly can penetrate the flooring and the tank...

which makes for another occult odor source....

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:34 PM   #6
More than one rivet loose
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
it's nice 2 have the extra years protection...

but get it IN writing. because the 'creative warranty' issues are dependent on 1 or 2 people that work in j/c still being there...
I will. A letter to the warrenty department is coming with a copy to VP Customer service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
i'm skeptical this repair will work long term, but understand about not wanting to wait for a tank.
does't the notion it's 'loose at the seal but so tight it cracked' seem a bit like double speak?
I saw the problem and the solution. I am confident the tank repair is going to work. The toilet flange was pulling up on the tank flange. Add the wieght of waste and you are in for aproblem. The toilet flange does not need to be that tight. Plenty of goo on the seal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
yes over tightening at the toilet may be part of the cause...

but the tank support/banding may NOT be snug enough up to the flooring/frame...
There is no band. The tanks sits on foam in a pan bolted to the frame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
If your tank is hanging at ALL by the flange area, there will be recurrent issues...
I am aware of it
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
so ya better think hard about keeping it very empty when traveling...
This is not always an option.
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:38 PM   #7
More than one rivet loose
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
It is possible to not have the toilet tight enough on the closet flange, but to have the closet flange too tight going into the tank. They are two seperate places that need tightening.
THe guy working on my trailer is quite good. I saw the sael between my toiler and the flange. It as not sealing as well as it should. It was replaced.

When I got back from shopping. They had the toilet and tank in. They were leak testing. I was hopeful about getting out of here this evening. We still have one small leak. I am spending the night in the Rv parking lot and hope to be out of here in the morning.
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:39 PM   #8
More than one rivet loose
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clancy_boy
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BTW - my boys are still looking for your cat.
They are going to have to look a long ways!!!! She is in Dallas now!
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecatsandi
They are going to have to look a long ways!!!! She is in Dallas now!
Now they know where she is - they have internet in the dog house....

I see them looking at MapQuest now for directions......

Tina says hello.

Mike
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:17 PM   #10
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North Dallas..

Randy is quite the good tech. If you ever need sheetmetal replacement he is the guy. I have seen alot of his work as the shop is very busy and when he is done it looks great.

Facility is not real "customer friendly", kinda shadetree, but he does nothing but Airstream warranty work/repairs.
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Old 01-14-2008, 10:20 PM   #11
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good luck Michelle

It was nice meeting you today at North Dallas RV - as I mentioned, Randy will be doing the restoration on my Caravel. I was very impressed with him - he does all the body panels by himself and appears to be a craftsman/perfectionist extraordinaire. And just so you know, you're the first real "Airstreamer" that I have met in the flesh as my "AS dream" begins.
Save travels, paula
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:17 PM   #12
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interesting and I worry often traveling with the blank tank fully loaded, my issue is no grey tank, just one huge 70 gallon combined beast. How long will this last towing 16k miles /year?
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:55 PM   #13
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Traveling with the Black Tank Full?

It doesn't sound like this was caused by traveling with a full tank, at least I didn't read that in Cats' messages, so I hope that isn't something we should be concerned about. We always travel with a full FRESH water tank, and with BLACK and GREY tanks anywhere between empty and almost full. We have a dump station at our storage facility, so I generally return home with tanks ready to empty--saves time by not having to get in the dump line at the campgrounds.

Randy
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:13 AM   #14
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folks shouldn't worry about traveling with full tanks...

IF the tanks are properly supported.

i do it regularly as well, so my intent wasn't to sound the alarm...

BUT that also assumes the belly pan/support for each tank is intact.

mine doesn't have 'foam' under the tank, but there are pieces of styrene around the tank...

these tank mostly rest on the belly pan sections of galvanized sheet metal...

anyone that has had a tank sensor replaced MAY have had a technician access the area by LOWERING the pan

this process leaves the tank slightly UN supported, until the pan is reattached...

(in fact the factory guys prefer to cut a hole in the belly pan near the sensor, rather than lowering the pan)

i've had the pans lowered AND now have holes/doors cut at each sensor just so the pan never gets lower again, for this...

sometimes techs leave out a few bolts or don't fully snug them, and some tanks DO ride loosely, the styrene moves, compresses and so on...

so my concern was related to the POTENTIAL for stress/downward force on this repaired crack...

an empty blank tank may look fully supported, but a tank filled with 250lb + of stuff ABSOLUTELY must be supported...

i didn't intend to hijack the message OR suggest the repair won't perform perfectly 4 eternity...

but i would be concerned as already explained, because once burned by this issue one doesn't forget the smell...

cheers
2air'
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