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71_safari · 05-25-2004, 10:38 AM

When camping?

My 71 has no grey tank and the manual recommends a "gopher hole"!? Which I would certainly not hesitate to do if out in the middle of nowhere. But in a campground? I don't think so.

There is also some mention of leaving the cap on and opening the black valve so the grey backs up into the black tank but I hesitate to have the two mixing together like that.

I do not shower in my trailer but there is the sink runoff and I find myself using a bucket underneath the drain. Periodically I dump it into my toilet so it goes into the black tank for later dumping. Other than filling the black tank more quickly, it seems to be working.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks, john

**Stefrobrts** · 05-25-2004, 10:50 AM

We use a 10 gallon 'blue tank' which is external and has wheels. It hooks up to the outlet with a hose. At our last rally we didn't have hookups and used the sink a lot, and even had showers, so we had to roll it to the dump station twice to empty it. Without showers and using paper plates so we don't have to do dishes, we've used it for 4 days without filling it up.

In most campgrounds we've had sewer hookups, then you just hook up the slinky and forget about it. But we always take the blue tank along, just in case we end up at a state park or someplace that doesn't have sewer hookups at each site.

Chuck · 05-25-2004, 10:51 AM

Click here: http://www.campingworld.com/browse/p...=SRCH&tcode=37

here's an "action" shot:

greg176 · 05-25-2004, 11:54 AM

I am currently insralling a grey water tank in my '61. Your '71 has a large single tank and I believe the intent was to let the two mix.The sinks have traps so it would not be a problem to let grey water run into toilet tank.It would make it easier to drain.By the way never tow with that tank full except to dump station as can cause frame seperation.

FireFighter · 05-25-2004, 11:57 AM

My 71 only has one tank as well describe what you have how are you getting the grey water into a pail?

71_safari · 05-25-2004, 12:55 PM

Thanks for the ideas everyone - the 'Blue Tank' looks perfect Stef - I will probably order one similar to yours as I prefer camping in State Parks where there are no hookups. Only problem is sometimes the dump station is a ways off, on the road in, for example. Might end up towing it!

Chuck, thanks for the link. I laughed at that 'action shot' until I realized how much those things probably weigh when they're full!

Greg, thanks for the info on the black tank. I wouldn't have thought about the possibility of frame problems with the weight. I suppose that letting it mix is what they intended but it just seems weird to me. I guess I pefer thinking that if I have kept the dump valve closed, when I remove the cap there is only grey water in there, even though it is probably somewhat contaminated.

FF - My grey line comes in right below the dump valve to the black tank. I just put the pail underneath the drain outlet, open the cap, and keep the dump valve closed. I just had it replaced and it seems to seal fine. So after removing the cap, grey water only is free to run into the pail. I do not produce a lot of grey water so a 3 gal bucket holds quite a bit and I have just been periodically dumping it into my toilet. Leaving the cap on and the dump valve open would accomplish the same thing, as Greg has mentioned, except that I hate the thought of black water mixing with grey and contaminating the sink drain lines, even though they have traps.

-john

Chuck · 05-25-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg176

Your '71 has a large single tank and I believe the intent was to let the two mix.The sinks have traps so it would not be a problem to let grey water run into toilet tank.It would make it easier to drain.

I don't believe that was ever the intent. If the black tank is above the floor, the shower pan will fill with poop rather quickly.

I just happen to have the belly pan removed from mine at the moment...this pic should explain it. In theory, you can leave the cap on the sewer outlet, and leave the dump valve open. However, since the black tank is at floor level, the water (and other offending contents) will back up through the drain lines and into the shower pan, as water will always seek its own level.

Also, when it is time to empty things, you could close off the dump valve so that you can attach a slinky to the outlet...but that will only hold back the contents of the tank. there is nothing holding back the poop that has found its way into the drain pipes and the "collector". So you're going to have a quart or 2 of poop on your hands when you take off that cap.

also, the black tanks are quite small on these older trailers. you'll fill 'em up in no-time if you let the grey water in there...even if you can technically do it.

the "intent" was....well, no one gave a rat's patoot about grey water back then. it was a-ok to dump it anywhere. So I don't think there was an "intent". its just soapy water.

even today, where no one allows you to drain "grey water"...tent campers are allowed to wash their dishes in a bucket of soapy water, and then dump that on the ground. but if you dump it on the ground via a length of pvc pipe....that's a NO-NO!

Firefighter: the 5/8 fitting on the sewer outlet cap is a standard thing. it is there so you can attach a 5/8 garden hose from there to one of those blue porta-tanks pictured above. Those tanks also have a 5/8 male fitting. you'll need a hose that has 2 female ends, which are sold where they sell the tanks. or, a standard washing machine hose. The grey water will drain into the blue tank, parked nearby. when its full...disconnect, and drag it over to the dump station, as pictured above.

71_safari · 05-25-2004, 01:16 PM

Hey Chuck,

>>So you're going to have a quart or 2 of poop on your hands when you take off that cap.

<<

Exactly my concern! I really like the concept of draining the grey off separately and keeping the black... well, black. I think what I will do is use one of the blue tanks to capture the grey water when necessary. When I dump the black tank I will then attach the sewer hose to the blue tank and dump the grey to help flush out the sewer line more effectively.

The pic helps - thanks.

-john

71_safari · 05-25-2004, 01:21 PM

Oh by the way - I didn't realize until I saw that pic that there is a cap available with the smaller 5/8" fitting in it. Perfect for a drain line.

**Stefrobrts** · 05-25-2004, 01:31 PM

Yep, that's just the kind of cap you want, then keep a short length of hose to connect from the cap to the blue tank - or whatever - and you're set.

We have a small blue tank, 10gal I think, and even full we can lift it into the back of the van for transport.

We keep a box of latex gloves to pull on when we have to deal with dumping. We also have a little bottle of handsanitizer for clean up after dumping - since there's no grey tank and you can't really wash your hands when you're done. We also have to keep a tight plug in the shower drain when travelling else we get nasty brown water from the trap comes back into the shower - ewwww! A couple trips ago we forgot to open the vent on the blue tank so water couldn't get in even though it was hooked up right, and we had a backup into the shower. Gross, but we're probably going to remember not to do that again!

FireFighter · 05-25-2004, 01:42 PM

my 31' plumbing looks nothing like this that may be why i did not understand it. thanks for the pic

Edie · 05-25-2004, 03:02 PM

A little off topic - but that's never stopped me yet.

There is a campaign under way to change our vocabulary. Try changing "grey" water to "wash" water. For those of us in the know, there's really no difference. But it is a big difference to the general public.

Talk to someone about draining grey water on the ground, and it sounds really questionable. But draining wash water on the ground sounds totally benign. This is turning into a big issue in some places, and a simple change in vocabulary might make a difference in the long run.

mtpalms · 05-25-2004, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

Firefighter: the 5/8 fitting on the sewer outlet cap is a standard thing. it is there so you can attach a 5/8 garden hose from there to one of those blue porta-tanks pictured above. Those tanks also have a 5/8 male fitting. you'll need a hose that has 2 female ends, which are sold where they sell the tanks. or, a standard washing machine hose. The grey water will drain into the blue tank, parked nearby. when its full...disconnect, and drag it over to the dump station, as pictured above.

Where do you all recommend getting such a cap? Our SOB had a threaded one, it didn't occur to me that this was available for an AS.

Chuck · 05-25-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtpalms

Where do you all recommend getting such a cap? Our SOB had a threaded one, it didn't occur to me that this was available for an AS.

just about anywhere. its a standard item. most any rv place should have them.

there is an issue about "valterra" vs. "thedford"....I think most A/Ss have the valtera 2-prong bayonet fitting, while others have a 4-prong. There is an adapter available to go from one to the other.

http://www.mobile-mart.com/valswrcn4.htm

blucloud · 05-25-2004, 05:10 PM

What model year were the first grey water tanks used? just wondering, June

InsideOut · 05-25-2004, 05:22 PM

Quote:

What model year were the first grey water tanks used?

They were introduced as an option in 1973 and became standard the next year.

Shari

71_safari · 05-25-2004, 06:51 PM

>>Talk to someone about draining grey water on the ground, and it sounds really questionable. But draining wash water on the ground sounds totally benign. This is turning into a big issue in some places, and a simple change in vocabulary might make a difference in the long run.<<

Well, there are reasons that some find it objectionable, regardless of the terminology. Out here in the West we do not get rain for almost 6 months in the summer. It is no fun as a tent camper to be setting up in areas where others have been dumping wash water that is full of grease, soap and food particles, not to mention what else might be in there from the bathroom sink and shower. It tends to start accumulating, attracting flies, rodents, etc. And yes, tent campers can be bad about it too, but we should all do the best we can to minimize it.

As I mentioned in a prior post, out in the middle of nowhere I am not worried about it but in places where others are going to be camping or sleeping I try to capture it in some way.

-john

Over59 · 05-26-2004, 07:03 AM

When you consider blue tank side figure full weight will be 8 pound per gallon. 10 gallon tank 80 pounds. 25 gallon tank 200 lbs. For the larger tanks the ones with all of the wheels on the ground look easier to deal move around.

Chuck · 05-26-2004, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

They were introduced as an option in 1973 and became standard the next year.

Shari

I recently purchased a sevice manual for 1973, and there is absolutely no mention of a grey tank in there for any model. perhaps they added the option in the middle of the year.

another forum user e-mailed me some scans of the plumbing diagrams on 1975 models, and the "auxilliary" tanks, as they were called, were tiny. like "10 gallons". sort of like "why bother?"

psych: don't forget to add in the weight of the tank itself. they aren't exactly light weight.

very ruggedly built. the shipping weight on my 25g 4-wheeler (pictured above) is 37lbs.

mtpalms · 05-26-2004, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

just about anywhere. its a standard item. most any rv place should have them.

there is an issue about "valterra" vs. "thedford"....I think most A/Ss have the valtera 2-prong bayonet fitting, while others have a 4-prong. There is an adapter available to go from one to the other.

http://www.mobile-mart.com/valswrcn4.htm

I think our outlet is 2 prong, and our hose adapter is for a 4 prong - no wonder it is so hard to attach it - the water intake line interfers with the 4th 'hook' on the adapter. You gotta gimme a break, we've only had the Safari out once, after all. Learn something new everyday.

Thanks for the link, I'll be bookmarking it, and that thundertank caravan shot is priceless! Talk about SOBs!