Help! Yucky clogged shower drain

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

I just brought my new baby home from the RV hospital where they performed extensive plumbing repairs to replace frozen burst water lines. (The PO had not used the coach in more than 5 years.) After we got it home I noticed the bathroom floor was covered with water and it was not draining down the shower drain even tho' the rig was tilted so the water flowed down to the shower drain. (This is just a temporary parking place, btw). The drain is in a totally unconvenient location underneath the tiny bumpout for the sink. I took the handle off the sink/toilet plunger and was able to get it over the drain and get some pretty good suction. YUCK--GAG! Leaves, dirt, and soapy water--but, surprisingly it didn't really stink. The more I'd plunge the more gunk would come up and I would absorb it with towels. Then I got the idea to open the dump valve. Soapy water, perhaps several gallons, poured out. Unfortunately I was still able to suck yuck out of the drain, perhaps because of the slight tilt toward the drain. Well, I know when I've met my match and it's time to tap into the Airstream braintrust here for opinions and HELP.

Also, there is a sink type sprayer next to the toilet that appears to be plumbed into the toilet. Now either this is a (huh: ) "chocolate spot" sprayer or Wally's version of a bidet. Anyway, it doesn't work at all even tho' it doesn't appear damaged in anyway. It looks like it would be a good thing to have. Any ideas on how to repair/replace it?

[Pahaska]

You're correct. The sprayer is called a "water saver" and is intended to remove "skid marks". Chances are it is clogged up in the spray head itself from mold building up after years of non-use. See if the nozzle will unscrew so that you can clean it out. Worst case, you may have to replace the spray head.

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

Thanks Pahaska. Except here in desert New Mexico it's probably clogged with mineral build up. Any ideas about my drain problem?

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by Blu_Hwy_Lady

Thanks Pahaska. Except here in desert New Mexico it's probably clogged with mineral build up. Any ideas about my drain problem?

The '72 trailers had no gray tank. The water that came out was probably just the contents of the piping from the shower to the dump valve.

I doubt that what came out of the drain was leaves. After all, how would leaves get in the shower drain? I'm guessing that you were seeing flat pieces of mild/crud that formed in the P-trap.

The P=trap is a bowl surrounding the drain with an exit pipe high on the side that retains enough water to provide an air tight seal to keep odors out of the coach. When last used, it would have been full of water which would have very slowly evaporated and, in the mean time, provided a nice little growing area for mold.

Does water drain now, even slowly? If so, I would run a stream of water through the drain for a while with the dump valve open and see of that frees it up any. If it doesn't drain now, I would try water under pressure and, if that doesn't work, a chemical drain cleaner. Many modern day drains have plastic and rubber parts, so, IMHO, drain cleaner should not hurt anything.

[Chuck]

well, the dump valve shouldn't have any effect on the shower, as they're not connected. If your trailer is "stock", it has no grey tank, and the drain from the shower simply drains out onto the ground, bypassing the black water tank in the process. its outlet connects to the sewer pipe BELOW the black tank valve.

I've seen such assorted "crud" come out of my drain system in the spring, too. I suspect that critters might find the empty drain pipes to be a cozy location to build nests, and its not inconcievable that they could get in there, especially if the cap is left off the sewer outlet.

I have one of those caps with the 5/8ths hose fitting, so you can connect a hose for draining grey water into the blue boy...one early spring outing, grey water stopped flowing, so I took the whole cap off, and in it was what looked like it could have been an "ex" mouse. (along with other assorted "crud"..leaves, etc). can't be sure, but it was grey and fuzzy.

under the trailer, there should be an access cover that is covering up the trap for the shower. If its not too hard to get to, you might be able to take the trap right out, and clean it out. otherwise, some kind of snake down the drain would help de-gunk the area. (I've found that an old piece of coaxial cable, like you might have for connecting up your tv, works well in the house when the tub drain gets slow. its flexible enough to slip right down the drain and through the bend in the trap, yet stiff enough to be effective at loosening crud when you spin it around and pull it back and forth).

[Alumaholic]

Sounds like your shower is draining just fine. Remember, without a gray water holding tank, it only drains when the dump is open. As Pahaska has already described, the gunk that came out was probably left behind when the drain water in the p-trap stagnated and eventually evaporated after years of disuse.

As for the toilet sprayer, in my '76 Safari, it only worked when when the flush lever was depressed. Of course, you must have your H2O pump turned on or be hooked up to city water.

Hope this helps.

Ken

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by klevan

Remember, without a gray water holding tank, it only drains when the dump is open.

that is not true; in fact, it drains wether or not the dump valve is open or not.

here is a picture of the underside of my trailer, with the belly pan off. the dump valve is up at the top. the pipes entering the sewer outlet are below the dump valve. the only thing hoding drain water in there is the twist-on sewer termination cap. with that removed, the shower should drain, regardless of the dump valve's position.

other years/models had slightly different arrangements, but the galley, lav, and shower drains all entered the sewer outlet DOWNstream from the black water dump valve.

[Alumaholic]

Thanks for the correction Chuck, but why did Blu Hwy Lady's gray water pour out when she opened her dump valve? Hmmm? Methinks she may be plumbed differently.

Ken

[Chuck]

well...how do we know it was "grey water"? could've been soapy water that was left in the black tank. it just came from the "rv hospital"...who knows what they did to it?

could be plumbed differently, too. but pre-grey tank "stock" configurations had no valves to control sink/shower drains. they should have put them in, if for nothing else, to prevent back-flow when the black tank is opened. and there IS a potential for that. (ask me how I know ). but as far as I know, the factory never did.

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

My trailer has only one tank for both gray and black. I don't know if soap residue could stay in a tank, literally for years and then get foamy again when things get wet, but maybe that's were the soap suds came from when I opened the dump valve. Judging from the amount of copper tubing installed (and the price of repair) I'm sure they had to run a bunch of water through to make sure things didn't leak. I thinking the diagnosis of a clogged P trap might be the problem. And, for the person that suggested it was probably mold stuff, not leaves...yes, I am certain that small leaves came up with the gunk. Who knows how they got in there. That's the adventure of owning these things, isn't it? Indeed, just having it home is an adventure. When I was moving some scrap lumber out of the way while my boyfriend backed the trailer into its temporary spot, the first board I picked up had a baby rattlesnake under it. Thank goodness mom was nowhere to be seen.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by Blu_Hwy_Lady

My trailer has only one tank for both gray and black.

If that is the case, then the trailer was modified by a previous owner, and we can't tell you how it works; you'll have to tell US.

even better, why don't you ask the techs that worked on the plumbing system? they've seen it; they should know what is there, and what they did to it. soapy water in the black tank could be because they cleaned it out when testing for leaks, and left some in there to prove it doesn't leak.

If it is stock from the factory, then there is one tank, ONLY for black. grey water drain pipes enter the sewer exit pipe below the black tank valve, bypassing the tank entirely. (check the pic I posted).

[Steve & Susan]

As to the leaves - small critters could have brought them in at some point and made a nest with them - you said it hadn't been used in over 5 years.
If the previous owner left the dump valve open, it could have been a cozy home for some furry little thing(s).

Good Luck!

steve

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

After reading everyone's thoughts on my drain problem I decided to crawl under the trailer and see what was going on as well as read the very badly photocopied owner's manual. The owner's manual does state that the bath and kitchen drains bypass the holding tank. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that's the case with mine. Based on Chuck's description I found what looks like the access cover to the bath drain. I tried to take it off but the screws seem rusted in place. Before I dig into this any further I thought I put up some pictures of my "experiment". Is this the drain access?


Here's the thing I think is supposed to be the drain hose for the sink&shower. Note, it looks like there was another drain hole before.



Same deal under the sink (sorry a little out of focus). Again it looks like the original drain hole is on the right.


Now, the really bad results of my experiment: First I ran water down the sink in the bath. I heard dripping outside and thought, "great, it works." Wrong! I went out and looked and despite the dump hand being in and the cap on, soapy water was dripping out. The same thing happened with the kitchen sink. Now what?

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

well the images didnt' exactly get in the right places, but I think you can get the idea.

[Alumaholic]

Blu Hwy Lady,
Your pictures appear to confirm Chuck's analysis. It appears you have the same plumbing that Chuck describes. The gray water from sinks and shower is by-passing the black-water dump valve as it should, and leaking past the worn out gasket on your sewer drain cap as it should not. The most important stuff is as it should be. All you need is a new gasket for the sewer cap.

Now, it is simply a matter of you becoming more knowledgable and comfortable with your Airstream and its systems.

What do you think, Chuck?

Ken

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by Blu_Hwy_Lady

Is this the drain access?

yep. its directly under the shower drain.

Originally Posted by Blu_Hwy_Lady

Here's the thing I think is supposed to be the drain hose for the sink&shower. Note, it looks like there was another drain hole before.

no, that is most likely a pressure relief drain. there is a gizmo in one of the water supply lines inside the trailer that will open if there is excessive pressure in the line, and let the water out there. There are also low-point drains that allow you to drain all the water out of the lines, for winterizing or maintenance. these typically exit the trailer with similar half inch tubing.

Originally Posted by Blu_Hwy_Lady

Now, the really bad results of my experiment: First I ran water down the sink in the bath. I heard dripping outside and thought, "great, it works." Wrong! I went out and looked and despite the dump hand being in and the cap on, soapy water was dripping out. The same thing happened with the kitchen sink. Now what?

dripping out of what? the braided pvc tube, or the sewer outlet?

if its the sewer outlet, then it means that the cap is not on tightly, or the rubber gasket is worn to the point where it won't seal tightly. but it should be water tight, more or less...not critical. Look at the pic of mine. its a different style, but same idea. it should snap on tightly. mine has the 5/8 garden hose threaded adapter built into it, so that I can connect a drain hose to a blue tote-tank to collect grey water. If you leave that cap on and start running water into the shower, its going to back up pretty quickly.

anyway, if thats where the water is coming out, then that means it is working as I described. the only thing that goes into the tank is what comes out of the toilet. it is sitting ON your black tank, which is inside your trailer, sitting ON the floor. your shower drain is IN the floor, BELOW the level of this tank, and water emptying from it can not drain UP into that tank. (you wouldnt' want it to, anyhow, as that tank is small, and it would fill up fast!).

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by klevan

What do you think, Chuck?

Ken

yup. you beat me to it!

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

Thanks guys, but I'm still a little confused by what Klevin said:
"The gray water from sinks and shower is by-passing the black-water dump valve as it should, and leaking past the worn out gasket on your sewer drain cap as it should not. The most important stuff is as it should be. All you need is a new gasket for the sewer cap."

If it doesn't go in the "black water" tank where does it go? (I know that probably sounds really stupid.) The owner's manual says, "The waste water from the sink, shower, bath and lavatory, bypasses the holding tank, yet drains through the same outlet as the waste; therefore you need to make only one connection when hooking up in a trailerpark with sewage facilities"

My ex-husband and I had a '76 Layton with a grey water and black water tanks that could be drained separately or together through the same outlet using different dump valves. However, it was so funky in design it came with a "wand" that screwed onto a hose that had to be threaded through the bathroom window to rinse the black water tank, so that's sort of what my background is.

When my son was giving me the initial tour of my Airstream he said, "it only has one tank". I thought that meant that both the black and gray waste mixed in the same tank.

So, the question remains, do I work at getting the screws out of the access panel? (Spraying them with some sort of stuff like WD-40 first) If so, do I need to remove both sets of screws or only the ones on the hump thingy? And once I get them off, what do I find in there? (I mean, besides scary, yucky stuff?) and what will be the next step to unclog the shower drain. I can still plunge it and stuff comes up. When it gets towed to the movie set on the 14th I want to make sure that more stuff doesn't bubble up into the bath pan. I'm eager for the Airstream to make a good impression on the set dresser on the inside and the outside.

Thanks again for helping out this rank newbie. What a great group you are.

[Janet H]

In my 77 which has both black water and grey water tanks, the shower did not drain into either tank. The water collected in the drain pipe and then backs up into the shower. The drain pipe only holds a gallon or so of water. When the pipe is uncapped - the water runs out onto the ground. We rerouted this ( I think) when we did some work tot he stystems. To date - it hasn't been an issue - We have never actually used the shower.

[Alumaholic]

Dear Blu Hwy Lady,
Your Airstream does not have a gray water holding tank. Your Layton did.

With the sewer cap in place, If you put water down the kitchen sink or bathroom sink, first the drain pipes will fill up and then your shower will fill up giving you the impression that your shower drain is clogged. It is not clogged. It is waiting for you to remove the cap and hook up the sewer hose just like the Owner's Manual says.

Your Airstream was built during a more environmentally innocent time, when people kept their black water (from the toilet) in holding tanks and let their gray water (from the sinks and shower) run on the ground.

Since you do not have a gray water holding tank, you should probably purchase a portable holding tank ( A Blue Belly).

Please call me to discuss. I am in Albuquerque. 323-8654

I would be happy to come see your Airstream and explain how everything works. Please don't unscrew anything for now.

Ken