Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-06-2011, 10:34 AM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
1969 31' Sovereign
O , Central,Florida.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 30
Grey Water tank. is it really necessary?

Hey Y'all
I am in the nasty part of a 1969 Land Yacht rear bath extravaganza & I was told I need to add a Grey tank & some part of my brain says WHY? if you can't dump Grey on the ground {like back in 1969} then it has to stay in a tank right ?

What would be the difference if it was Black & Grey or the Black & Grey in separate tanks?

May seem like a stupid question but ....

I am going to have a custom tank made & so I just need to know is I need to divide it in half with 2 valves or I can do just one .

OK this is stopping me in my Drawings just wondering is killing my creative spurt.

SR66
__________________

__________________
Slowride66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 10:42 AM   #2
Rivet Master
 
clancy_boy's Avatar
 
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln , Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,780
Images: 8
Some places still allow the dumping of grey water on the ground. Limited, but still an available option. Is it one you will exercise? Only you can answer that. Resale value - someone may ask that in the future. Never giong to sell? Not an issue.

Boondocking? I have a little issue with hauling grey water in the portable container in the back of my truck. Black waste, I really hate to handle it at all. Seperation allows some selective waste disposal options. Grey tends to fill up faster, this could mean that if you only used the black tank you could extend the stay where you are by doing the washing outside the camper in tubs.

Moderizing? Do a full rebuild? Why noy do it to the current standards of todays RV's......
__________________

__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ
The family has grown.
2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
clancy_boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 11:23 AM   #3
Rivet Master
 
68 TWind's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
Oxford, , Mississippi
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,423
I would keep them separate. You will fill up the grey tank much faster than the black. If you plumb both into one tank you will have to dump more often. I use a Thedford Smarttote for my grey water when I don't have full sewer hook up and it works out fine. I do not want to dump black water in the portable tank unless I have to. I can go 4-5 days on my black tank and we never stay at one camp site longer than that so I use dump stations for the black. If I were doing a complete belly pan off job I would install separate grey tanks. Vintage Trailer supply has custom tanks made to fit between the frame rails of vintage Airstreams and they can spin weld the outlets anywhere you want them.
__________________
__________________
Bruce & Rachel
__________________
68 Trade Wind
2001 Toyota Tundra
68 TWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 11:45 AM   #4
Moderator
Commercial Member
 
eubank's Avatar
 
1967 30' Sovereign
Bosque Farms , New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,449
It would be nice to have a grey tank, but we've lasted for years without.

Just this morning, I ordered parts to do a partial work-around. You can keep the valve open while keeping the cap on the outlet, forcing the grey into the black tank. But that makes for a very messy dump. The parts I ordered are a thetford to valterra adaptor and a (valterra) temporary dump valve, both pictured below:





The plan is to turn the temporary valterra valve into a temporary thetford valve (cutting and glueing), then use it to hold back the flow instead of just using the cap. That'll make dumping a lot cleaner, even if the total capacity will be rather small.


Lynn
__________________
WBCCI 21043
eubank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 11:59 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
tphan's Avatar
 
1972 27' Overlander
Longmont , Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 951
When remodeling my '72, I ran the sink wastewater into the black tank, but with a diverter valve to have the option of running it straight out the back like it used to. I kind of like the idea of having the soapy dishwater join the contents of the black tank (#1 only for us) to help-maybe-keep the tank somewhat "clean", so I usually have the valve switched that way. Works for us, maybe something like it for you too. PM me if you'd like more info. -tim
__________________
tphan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 12:29 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
InsideOut's Avatar

 
1956 22' Safari
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen , Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,799
Images: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowride66 View Post
Hey Y'all
I am in the nasty part of a 1969 Land Yacht rear bath extravaganza & I was told I need to add a Grey tank & some part of my brain says WHY? if you can't dump Grey on the ground {like back in 1969} then it has to stay in a tank right ?
A lot of vintage owners w/o built-in gray tanks use an external tank (generally refered to as a "Blue Tote") to capture their gray instead of building one in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowride66 View Post
What would be the difference if it was Black & Grey or the Black & Grey in separate tanks?
Typically, gray tank capacity is quite a bit more than typical vintage black tank - many of which are only around 10 gallons or so. 10 gallons is not very useful at all for a gray tank - especailly if combined w/black.

One of the problems of only have one tank and it being used for both black & gray, it really becomes just a high(?) capacity black tank - it's no longer gray at all, it's all black.

We added both gray & black to our '56 (it had neither when built, it was a park model) because we do a lot of boondocking and field camping - by field camping I mean a rally in a field but with porta-potties brought in. In this case, it's usually on someones private property and they allow us (actually encourage us) to put our gray on the ground. The way our trailer is plumbed, our gray water goes into our gray tank then out the waste valve bypassing the black tank and allowing us to keep our black tank water "captured" so we are able to take advantage of this situation. This is also the way most modern trailers are set up. We have friends that have combined tanks that are not able to do this because they have their gray plumbed into their black tank. Even if they were to use their combined tank for only gray water at these rallies and utilize the porta-potties for their #1 & #2's, the tank is still comtaminated enough that they are not comfortable dumping their gray on the ground.

If it is plumbed in such a matter that the gray by-passes the black tank (whether into a built-in or exterior tank or tote), like in our old '64 and most likely your '69 you are fine. It's just when you have it plumbed so all your gray goes through your black tank to get out.

I know in our old '64 owner's manual it did explain the situation Lynn suggested...temporarily using a black tank to capture the greywater...the problem is that when the tank becomes "full" black and grey back up into your gray drain pipes and will come out at the lowest point - usually your shower. If it's just gray that does this...that's one thing, if it's combined...that's something completely different !

The way it was explained to keep having the messy dump session Lynn alluded to is to before removing the cap to dump, close the valve that way, you only have to deal with the usually less than a gallon of "mixed waste" captured between the valve & cap...and backed up in the lines if you waited too long. If the valve is left open when you remove the cap...then you are going to have to deal with the entire capacity of the mixed waste in the tank.

Bottomline, in my opinion is that:
1) Many people exist just fine without gray tanks - either by using hook-ups at campgrounds, a blue tote or letting it run on the ground where allowed.
2) Combined tanks are okay if:
a. You can by-pass with the gray and are okay with dealing with a little "mixed" when use of the combined tank is needed.
b. you only plan on camping where there are hook-ups
c. You don't mind dealing with mixed waste with a blue tote
d. It has enough capacity to capture your entire fresh water capacity so it can't back up into your shwer or gray lines
e. You only plan on boondocking for a day or two at a time or using it for "on the road stops" only
Shari
__________________
Vintage Airstream Club - Past President 2007/2008
WBCCI #1824 - DenCO Unit Past President (2005)
AIR #30 - Join Date: 2-25-2002

RMVAC | WBCCI DenCO Unit | Sisters on the Fly | Tin Can Tourists
BIRDY - our 1956 Safari | 1964 Serro Scotty
InsideOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 01:49 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville , Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,185
Blog Entries: 1
I like having both tanks. never tried it without a grey tank. very few places I go allow grey on ground. If you are doing a big job anyway, why not? I use the grey water to flush the black water from the hose and fittings after a dump.
__________________
Bill M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 08:16 AM   #8
2 Rivet Member
 
1969 31' Sovereign
O , Central,Florida.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 30
OK I get it & thank you all for the imput.

I am going to replace the tank its broken many times around the toilet flange & my freind works for a company that builds water tanks for fire trucks so a total custom tank is available

I have been thinking of the Black & grey & I think I migh try to add a valve from the grey to the black for a rinse out {in case #2's get bad} so 3 valves maybe 4 depends on how creative I get when I get there.

Seeing that I am replacing frame section & its 5" plus another 3 for the tank drop I was thinking of having a 8 " "c" channel made & it be simplified therefor I can make a bigger tank .

its approximatly 61 " Long by 43" Wide & 5 to 8 " deep with a angle to direct the gravity drain flow.

here's some pictures.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...out-78002.html



SR66
__________________
Slowride66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 09:48 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
tphan's Avatar
 
1972 27' Overlander
Longmont , Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowride66 View Post
OK I get it & thank you all for the imput.

I have been thinking of the Black & grey & I think I migh try to add a valve from the grey to the black for a rinse out {in case #2's get bad} so 3 valves maybe 4 depends on how creative I get when I get there.


I think this would work so long as you have the gt such that you could get it slightly uphill from the bt when dumping and flushing, whether by jacking up the front of the trailer slightly past level and/or having a couple of pads under the tires on the side that you want a little higher. Am I envisioning this the way you are?
__________________
tphan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 01:56 PM   #10
2 Rivet Member
 
seldencove's Avatar
 
1963 28' Ambassador
Lyme , Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 88
Images: 16
Black and grey tanks should be kept seperate. You don't want the bacteria from the black tank travelling into your kitchen or bathroom sink. They are plumbed similar to a home, but you are not travelling down the road in your homes.
I am pretty sure it is a rv code issue combining the grey water with the black. Thats why they are built with two tanks, its not a capacity issue.
I would definately keep them seperarate.

With that being said, I use a portable tote when boondocking, it isn't a big deal, but I often think about maybe adding a permanent gray tank.
__________________
2005 Ford Excursion V-10
Reese Trunnion Bar with dual cam sway control
Prodigy P3 brake control
seldencove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 02:57 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
InsideOut's Avatar

 
1956 22' Safari
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen , Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,799
Images: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by seldencove View Post
Black and grey tanks should be kept seperate.
100% Agree...
Quote:
Originally Posted by seldencove View Post
You don't want the bacteria from the black tank travelling into your kitchen or bathroom sink.
It would probably come up into the floor of your shower before reaching your kitchen or bathroom sink though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seldencove View Post
I am pretty sure it is a rv code issue combining the grey water with the black. Thats why they are built with two tanks, its not a capacity issue.
Don't think so...I know Airstream recently made (still makes?) a couple of models with combined tanks. I sure hope they build-in some sort of check valve to keep the tank from backing up like this in those models.

Shari
__________________
Vintage Airstream Club - Past President 2007/2008
WBCCI #1824 - DenCO Unit Past President (2005)
AIR #30 - Join Date: 2-25-2002

RMVAC | WBCCI DenCO Unit | Sisters on the Fly | Tin Can Tourists
BIRDY - our 1956 Safari | 1964 Serro Scotty
InsideOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 03:08 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
InsideOut's Avatar

 
1956 22' Safari
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen , Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,799
Images: 108
P.S. I just checked the website, it appears that the 16' Sport, the International and the International Serenity still all have a combined tank - it's 21 gallons. The problem I see is the fresh water tank is 23 gallons - so where does the extra 2 gallons go when the combined tank is full?

Shari
__________________
Vintage Airstream Club - Past President 2007/2008
WBCCI #1824 - DenCO Unit Past President (2005)
AIR #30 - Join Date: 2-25-2002

RMVAC | WBCCI DenCO Unit | Sisters on the Fly | Tin Can Tourists
BIRDY - our 1956 Safari | 1964 Serro Scotty
InsideOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 03:35 PM   #13
Site Team
 
Aage's Avatar
 
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa , ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,206
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut View Post
The problem I see is the fresh water tank is 23 gallons - so where does the extra 2 gallons go when the combined tank is full?

Shari
Evaporation.
__________________
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
...John Wayne...........................
Aage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 04:54 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
tphan's Avatar
 
1972 27' Overlander
Longmont , Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by seldencove View Post
Black and grey tanks should be kept seperate. You don't want the bacteria from the black tank travelling into your kitchen or bathroom sink. They are plumbed similar to a home, but you are not travelling down the road in your homes.
I am pretty sure it is a rv code issue combining the grey water with the black. Thats why they are built with two tanks, its not a capacity issue.
I would definately keep them seperarate.

With that being said, I use a portable tote when boondocking, it isn't a big deal, but I often think about maybe adding a permanent gray tank.
A residential septic system, or any community sewer system, combines greywater with blackwater- it all goes down the same sewer pipe and then into the same tank or treatment pond. As Shari pointed out, if the AS tank gets full and overflows somewhere, it will be at a low escape point (tub or shower) rather than a high one (sink drain). Vigilance regarding waste tank capacity is especially necessary with a combined tank if you don't want a mess on your hands. Fortunately, this isn't too difficult with tank volume guages (or idiot lights like mine has) or looking into the toilet hole with a flashlight. This is also where a tote like yours comes in handy, to empty the tank frequently.
I've never heard of sewage bacteria crawling back up the pipes, swimming through the water of the sink (or tub) trap, and emerging on your freshly washed dishes, neither in a house nor in an RV. It's much more likely to end up on your shoes at a dump station.
As Shari also pointed out, it is not code for RVs to have separate tanks, just a convenient option.
That all being said, separate tanks is, I suppose, better in that it gives you more options and more capacity, but a combined tank is legal, safe (if properly plumbed and vented), and workable if your space, energy, or pocketbook is limited.
A friend used to say that "there's more than 1 way to skin a cat", which is an unpleasant image but nonetheless useful to keep in mind for your Airstream remodeling. Have fun- tim
__________________

__________________
tphan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grey tank inlet help? brattwurzt Waste Systems, Tanks & Totes 1 08-21-2011 08:54 PM
Grey water tank for 1973 AS Tradewind 25' mick20 1970-79 Tradewind 4 06-07-2011 01:43 PM
Fresh Water Tank Size and Gauges ednspace Fresh Water Systems 4 05-23-2011 09:19 PM
Adding a larger grey tank to a 78 Tradewind johnhh Waste Systems, Tanks & Totes 3 04-04-2011 01:43 PM
Grey Water Tank Flushes Toilet (to conserve fresh water) LittleRadio Sinks, Showers & Toilets 8 03-28-2011 11:10 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.