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Old 10-27-2011, 02:35 PM   #57
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Ken-

You are definitely correct that "The problem could be occuring sooner because of an obstruction in the pipe labelled "11D".

Don't you think that the problem could also occur because of flooding at the same location? If Ronnie is letting all the water out at once, the assumption of two phase flow could fail, leaving him with a choked vent. Worse yet, a bit of a Venturi effect.

John
I will check 11D once I get the trailer back. And I like the idea of using the flex hose to check it.

I can't say that I know what you mean by "two phase flow" or "venturi effect". I'm still pretty green but this crash course is helping...
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:00 PM   #58
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It is a significant amount of water that backs into the shower. It was nearly half full to the lip when I found it. It took quite awhile to drain, as in I went to bed because I was tired of waiting. And my tank was no more than 25% full (per the sensor) prior to that. After draining the sensor showed about 25% again.

There is no question that there is a flaw in the system due to lack of venting. The people I've talked to at AS admit that and say that this is the fix. This valve is what it takes to prevent the water flow from overwhelming the venting. They won't argue that fact with you, they admit there's a flaw. But this is the solution they are offering.
Looking at your PDF, I see no way any more water than what's in the shower drain trap (or perhaps more of the shower drain plumbing if some of it is sloping the wrong way) could end up in the shower unless the tip of the pipe into the tank from the shower drain (11M) was below the surface of the water in the tank. That brings up another entirely different possible cause. Keep in mind that I am only trying to explore the possibilities. I am not suggesting that you have any option other than to follow their path of trying to fix the problem.

Ken

This has me puzzled If I were a member of the top 1% , I would buy you a new trailer and tear the one you have apart to solve the puzzle.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:02 PM   #59
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So I guess this means that we should all be looking at the possibility of retrofitting with Hepvo valves?
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:17 PM   #60
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So I guess this means that we should all be looking at the possibility of retrofitting with Hepvo valves?
I think that if this has never happened to you, then you don't need to do anything.

It would be any interesting experiment to have a whole bunch of people with newer trailers fill their sinks and drain them while watching the shower floor.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:44 PM   #61
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Looking at your PDF, I see no way any more water than what's in the shower drain trap (or perhaps more of the shower drain plumbing if some of it is sloping the wrong way) could end up in the shower unless the tip of the pipe into the tank from the shower drain (11M) was below the surface of the water in the tank. That brings up another entirely different possible cause. Keep in mind that I am only trying to explore the possibilities. I am not suggesting that you have any option other than to follow their path of trying to fix the problem.

Ken

This has me puzzled If I were a member of the top 1% , I would buy you a new trailer and tear the one you have apart to solve the puzzle.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE FUN!!! That would be a great science experiment.

Honestly I don't understand the physics behind it. But we would dump a full sink and run additional water through the sink for one reason or another and end result the sink would appear to be draining fine but the shower pan would have water in it halfway up to the lip. I am not sure how much water could be in the shower drain pan or associated piping but it seemed like a lot in the shower.

And I need to get this resolved because I am not getting any work done. Spending too much time on this forum and the internet trying to figure out what's going on.

And while typing this I got a call from the AS tech that's been working with my dealer and had a good conversation with him. Same story, the vent for the system can't handle the amount of water that the system can flow through. Fix is to slow that water down. But he also was not aware of all of the details so I went over the whole story with him. He seemed kind of puzzled as well that so much water was in my shower, he was expecting just what would be in the P trap, not a half full shower. He is going to have the dealer check to make sure the auto-vent in the shower is working and not sticking.

So still I'm not sure how much confidence I have in this completely fixing the problem. Hopefully this patch will do the job. And I guess whether I like it or not, finding out the hard way looks to be the only way...
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:56 PM   #62
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It would be any interesting experiment to have a whole bunch of people with newer trailers fill their sinks and drain them while watching the shower floor.
I need to get Traildog to try it. He has the same trailer I do, '12 Flying Cloud 25FB.

If he's not reading this I'll get him to try it at the Piney Woods Rally in two weeks.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:57 PM   #63
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I think that if this has never happened to you, then you don't need to do anything.

It would be any interesting experiment to have a whole bunch of people with newer trailers fill their sinks and drain them while watching the shower floor.

Ken:

See post #48. This isn't the first time grey water backing up in the shower has been discussed on the Forums.... so it makes me wonder if they are now suggesting Hepvo that it might answer the problem for some other folks as well. Guess I will have to see what the plumbing schematic for my AS looks like.

Dana
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:58 PM   #64
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Ronnie

we can all dump water down are galley sinks and then sit around and commiserate as we wait for it to drain out of our shower pans.

Dana
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:07 PM   #65
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Ronnie

we can all dump water down are galley sinks and then sit around and commiserate as we wait for it to drain out of our shower pans.

Dana

Yep, add that to the games list. The "Sink-to-Shower Drain Race".
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:19 PM   #66
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Ken:

See post #48. This isn't the first time grey water backing up in the shower has been discussed on the Forums.... so it makes me wonder if they are now suggesting Hepvo that it might answer the problem for some other folks as well. Guess I will have to see what the plumbing schematic for my AS looks like.

Dana

OK, now I do remember reading that. I wonder if your shower drain plug will cause the holding tank to explode.

I think we all need a ferret with a helmet cam.

I tried that once at home, but he came up in the neighbor's tub.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:12 AM   #67
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I need to get Traildog to try it. He has the same trailer I do, '12 Flying Cloud 25FB.

If he's not reading this I'll get him to try it at the Piney Woods Rally in two weeks.
I'm reading this thread with great interest right now and will definitely want to do the test at the Piney Woods Rally in a couple of weeks. That will be my next opportunity to check it out.

I don't like hearing about flaws like this, when I have enough on my plate just learning about all the stuff that does work. BTW, everyone, I just picked up my 2012 25' FC (just like bike_addicts') a week and a half ago. We did not fill up the sink during our two night stay, we just hand washed our dishes and let them air dry. Now I am eager to enter the "Sink-to-Shower Drain Race" at the rally. Sounds like I may have a winner, which in this case would be a bad thang.

Bike_addict, it is unfortunate that it has taken so long to diagnose and fix this problem, causing a cancellation of your weekend plans! Nice weather this weekend around here...
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:28 AM   #68
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Hopefully

Bike_Addict,

Man hopefully they get you fixed up. I know its frustrating dealing with a dealership. I hate it when they give you the run arounds. Sounds like your staying on their case. Hopefully they will have you fixed up good for the Texas Piney Woods Rally. When I went up there yesterday to visit it sure was great weather. Made me want to go home and hook up the AS and head on up there and hang out. Weather was GREAT!....Ok Ok Im done rubbing it in.

Really,I hope they get you fixed up. Keep us up to date!
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:59 AM   #69
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This has been an interesting thread for me. We purchased our 2011 FC 30' this February. It took a while for us to figure out through the process of "elimination" that our grey and black release valves were mislabeled. AS sent us a new set of labels, but our monitor seems never read contents accurately. And now the face plate has partially separated from its base. I appreciate the tip that an owner is able to calibrate the monitor.

In any event we are making to making the trek to the dealer in a couple weeks. Jack
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Old 10-30-2011, 02:43 PM   #70
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Hmmm, just another data point. We experienced something similar when the singuy washes the dishes. When I wash the dishes I always drain the sink a little when it gets about 3/4 full, don't like to slosh, heh. When he does the dishes he just lets it get full to within an inch of the top if that's what it takes to finish the job. We have ended up with water in the shower a couple of times when the singuy did his fill'r'up wash and drain even though we were still in the green fill zone on the gauge. We were connected to full hook-ups both times and just opened the grey tank valve. Also noted that the drain time was shorter than normal for a "full" tank.

Just yesterday I let the sink get >3/4 full before draining completely and noticed that it drained slower than normal. I wonder if this is a "feature" of airstream design, hee.

For the record book, we have a 2009, 28ft International.

sinjin
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