Dump Station Black Tank Rinse Question

[backflow]

The Potable Water Fill Station should never used to directly connect to a sewer line as established in all plumbing codes. Flushing Black Water Tanks with a water hose directly connected from the faucet to the tank is a cross connection that is not permitted. The loss of water pressure at the time flushing will result in sewerage back-flowing into the potable water supply.

We know some R/V's are set up like this, however, one must realize the sewer line is being directly connected to the sewer line! Yes some hose bibs have hose bib vacuum breakers -- this is not recognized in this instance as backflow protection.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by backflow

Yes some hose bibs have hose bib vacuum breakers -- this is not recognized in this instance as backflow protection.

You are correct; a vacuum breaker is not backflow prevention; it allows water to flow in either direction and only prevents a siphon. A check valve is backflow prevention; water can only flow through in one direction. My Interstate's black tank flush has a check valve; as reported by a fellow owner here on the Forums who discovered that HIS Interstate's check valve was installed backwards!

[featherbedder]

My prev. I stated my AS was 1976 yrs. old what I meant is I pur. in 1976 so 39 yrs. old. But nit pickers will find fault w/every thing.

[CAirstream]

Also, I never put dishwasher packs or dish/hand soap from the sink transferred to the black tank because some soaps can kill bacteria and enzymes that are supposed to be in your black tank and are good for the system to break down the waste. You could do this if you are sure that the soap you are using is free of all chemicals that can be harmful to your black tank.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Not bogus. Once it enters a septic system or a municipal sewer, it's all black water. Whether it's from your home or from your trailer at a dump station. The comparison is spurious.

In a septic system the discharge is underground— where Mother Nature can filter out the pathogens before the water reenters the ecosystem. And it's one reason why water from a septic system containing human waste is not supposed to be used to irrigate garden plants grown for human consumption; Mother Nature's filters aren't perfect. In a municipal sewer system, it's all treated to kill pathogens before being released above-ground where it can reenter the ecosystem.

The only time the gray-water vs. black-water issue makes any difference at all is if you camp someplace where you're allowed to discharge gray-water onto the ground. If you always camp with full hookups, or always dump your gray-water into a dump station along with your black-water, then you're right; it doesn't matter if you cross-contaminate your gray tank.

Above-ground discharge of water containing any human waste is a health hazard. Insects that breed in water— such as mosquitoes— can be infected with stuff that's in the water, that they can transmit to you from someone else's waste. Or to others from your waste. We all carry pathogens that we've developed immunity toward, but not everyone has exactly the same immunities to the same pathogens. So if you EVER discharge gray-water onto the ground, PLEASE don't use any of the techniques listed in this thread to use gray-water to flush your black tank. If you NEVER discharge gray-water onto the ground, then go right ahead and use gray water to flush your black tank because you'l do no harm; the campground's sewer or septic system will take care of the problem for you.

Give me a break! I know all the issues at hand and how systems and biology works. Human waste is no better nor any worse than animal waste.

When I am in the BWCA, I do my thing on the ground (or very shallow pits, where appropriate)....and so do the animals. Your thoughts are true where there is a high concentration of people. The inside of my AS tanks have little bearing on your argument....even if I were to RARELY dump cross pollinated gray water on the ground in a boondocking or remote location. Yup, a few of my bacteria are right there with the deer poop and their bacteria.

And....again....we ALL cross contaminate whenever the blade valve is opened or closed in either tank.

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by idroba

...
Here is what I have done for 30 years of Airstream RV use:

Hook up the sewer hose, pull the black water dump handle, let it empty.
Go inside and fill the toilet to the brim and then flush it.
Go back outside and close the black water dump valve.
Pull the gray water dump valve and let it drain.
Rinse out the sewer hose and replace.
Wash hands. No, I don't use gloves, booties, haz mat suits etc.

Drive away. Total time is about 5 to 6 minutes.

I LOVE this. After I went through my first two haz mat suits I decided to throw caution to the wind. Still here, alive and well. Nice to know I am not alone.

I do rinse my tank out whenever I have a chance but not everytime I go out camping. I have been behind folks at the dump stations that spend lots of time dragging hoses around, going in and out of their campers making sure every last drop has been evacuated. Not all that necessary in my opinion.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by aftermath

I LOVE this. After I went through my first two haz mat suits I decided to throw caution to the wind. Still here, alive and well. Nice to know I am not alone.

I do rinse my tank out whenever I have a chance but not everytime I go out camping. I have been behind folks at the dump stations that spend lots of time dragging hoses around, going in and out of their campers making sure every last drop has been evacuated. Not all that necessary in my opinion.

I don't flush every time either. Only on the last dump before going home. The rest of the time.....dump and go.

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by CAirstream

Also, I never put dishwasher packs or dish/hand soap from the sink transferred to the black tank because some soaps can kill bacteria and enzymes that are supposed to be in your black tank and are good for the system to break down the waste. You could do this if you are sure that the soap you are using is free of all chemicals that can be harmful to your black tank.

Uh....this is a black tank not a septic tank. If you are on a septic system at home it is very important to maintain a balance in your SEPTIC system so that proper digestion can occur. In your trailer all that is needed is to take care of odors. Some use chemicals others use other methods. Breaking down waste is not a function of your black tank. Some soap getting into your black tank is not a problem.

[Jaxon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAirstream
Also, I never put dishwasher packs or dish/hand soap from the sink transferred to the black tank because some soaps can kill bacteria and enzymes that are supposed to be in your black tank and are good for the system to break down the waste. You could do this if you are sure that the soap you are using is free of all chemicals that can be harmful to your black tank.

Originally Posted by aftermath

Uh....this is a black tank not a septic tank. If you are on a septic system at home it is very important to maintain a balance in your SEPTIC system so that proper digestion can occur. In your trailer all that is needed is to take care of odors. Some use chemicals others use other methods. Breaking down waste is not a function of your black tank. Some soap getting into your black tank is not a problem.

No kidding. Dang, sometimes even the simplest things can get so tedious!

The dishwater tabs/packets in the amount used to help keep your black tank clean and build-up down, hardly present a danger of killing off beneficial microbes that digest the wastes in the septic system when dumped. Besides, this isn’t a task that needs to be repeated every single time you dump. I have never used sewer chemicals sold at RV stores in my black tank - never had an oder or problem where I needed to.

What I’d like to know however is, how many angles can fit on the point of a needle?

[Jaxon]

Originally Posted by CAirstream

Also, I never put dishwasher packs or dish/hand soap from the sink transferred to the black tank because some soaps can kill bacteria and enzymes that are supposed to be in your black tank and are good for the system to break down the waste. You could do this if you are sure that the soap you are using is free of all chemicals that can be harmful to your black tank.

Originally Posted by aftermath

Uh....this is a black tank not a septic tank. If you are on a septic system at home it is very important to maintain a balance in your SEPTIC system so that proper digestion can occur. In your trailer all that is needed is to take care of odors. Some use chemicals others use other methods. Breaking down waste is not a function of your black tank. Some soap getting into your black tank is not a problem.

No kidding. Dang, sometimes even the simplest things can get so tedious!

The dishwater tabs/packets in the amount used to help keep your black tank clean and build-up down, hardly present a danger of killing off beneficial microbes that digest the wastes in the septic system when dumped. Besides, this isn’t a task that needs to be repeated every single time you dump. I have never used sewer chemicals sold at RV stores in my black tank - never had an oder or problem where I needed to.

What I’d like to know however is, how many angles can fit on the point of a needle?

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Give me a break!

All right. Now unsubscribing and ignoring this thread, so that we don't have to put up with each other anymore. You win. Have fun storming the castle!

[DaveFL]

For those new to dumping: Never depend on a last minute use of dump station, unless you have previously inspected for operation, too many times I have seen inoperable dumps, no flush water, designed by a non engineer, missing hose, closed main valve somewhere, full or small sign saying out of order. Flush water is a nice plus and a few others are a downward slope to the drain with a rock large enough to hold open the cap, enough dry area to be able to stand close and monitor without getting wet feet

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

All right. Now unsubscribing and ignoring this thread, so that we don't have to put up with each other anymore. You win. Have fun storming the castle!

ah, don't take you ball and go home. We just need to agree to disagree. As I said in post #18, "... and I am not trying to be challenging or nasty, but this is much ado about nothing." I am truly sorry you took offense even after that statement.

This subject of pathogens is so unlikely that it is a moot point. I wash my bloodied hands at the sink in the AS or at home all the time. If I'm carrying pathogens, they're in the gray tank anyway. And the valves are hardly anti-septic. They get dowsed with each others fluids whenever the opposite one is open. Then you open the other one and they cross-contaminate.

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by Jaxon

...

What I’d like to know however is, how many angles can fit on the point of a needle?

I think I can help you with this one. Since an "angle" is the space measured between two intersecting lines, usually in degrees, I would say there can be an infinite amount of them. Of course if the lines need to be there to actually form an angle then this might be limited. But it would be safe to say more than a dozen.

Of course if you are asking for how many "angels" can be there I would say an infinite amount of them. They are creatures of myth so anything goes here.

[dznf0g]

oh, oh.....myth?

...and I got myself in trouble for just sayin' my sh....tuff ain't bad for the environment.

[Msmoto]

It is always fascinating to read the threads when the issues are cloudy at best. While there are significant differences in bacteria, animals vs. human, who would know what is on one's back water tank.

Interesting, a dog bite is not generally treated with antibiotics but a human bite is usually treated with antibiotics as the human mouth has pathogens which are not found in a dog's mouth. And, cats, nasty mouth stuff. Don't eat after your cat...the point is in waste, humans may have bugs which are more harmful to humans that other animal feces.

So, my thinking is to always attempt to err on the side of caution rather than create a potentially toxic situation, possibly causing harm to another person or animal.

[guskmg]

I can't resist a comment. Holding tanks are nothing but un-flushed toilets, even though the septic process has already begun. It all goes down the drain and sooner or later into the environment. The same as pit toilets and animal waste. I am greatly impressed that sewerage treatment plant do such a good job. However, they too, occasionally have goof ups into the environment. What impresses me most is that we can taker the solids from our treatment plants and put them on our farms and lawns for fertilizer without danger. Even though it is sterile, it still smells. Makes me wonder where the real truth is. Just like the notion the urine from a healthy person is sterile. I guess you have to say it all averages out over a life span. My immune system is better than yours.

[RAH]

This thread has been lots of fun to read...
I overdid the "take kitchen sink water to the toilet" once in a rented motorhome, thinking I had to conserve room in the gray tank and that I had black tank room to spare. That may have been true for a while but on the 4th day, it was quite apparent that I had filled the black tank. Completely. To the brim. And it was smelly. All night. With the bed not far enough away from the toilet. I had no one but myself to blame. Neither did my spouse. It was 10 years ago. And still gets brought up every so often.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Msmoto

It is always fascinating to read the threads when the issues are cloudy at best. While there are significant differences in bacteria, animals vs. human, who would know what is on one's back water tank.

Interesting, a dog bite is not generally treated with antibiotics but a human bite is usually treated with antibiotics as the human mouth has pathogens which are not found in a dog's mouth. And, cats, nasty mouth stuff. Don't eat after your cat...the point is in waste, humans may have bugs which are more harmful to humans that other animal feces.

So, my thinking is to always attempt to err on the side of caution rather than create a potentially toxic situation, possibly causing harm to another person or animal.

I believe this to be eco-nazi hogwash as well. Humans and all the other animals evolved in the same place through the same epochs. We have listened to a generation of blabber mouths who want us to believe we are somehow undeserving to exist in the place we evolved. Do we have viruses that affect us differently than others animals? Sure. So do they.

We are no dirtier than any biological species on this planet.

[n2916s]

Well, actually, we have been so over treated with antibiotics and we have eaten so many portions of meat from animals grossly over treated with antibiotics, the we are big old Petri dishes chock full of bugs that really don t need to be in the environment.

I treat black and grey water with great respect as it is at best merely noxious and, at worst, potentially hazardous.

Mike