Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-21-2007, 07:12 PM   #1
can't finish anyth
 
GolfStream's Avatar
 
2018 30' International
Lauderdale-By-The-Sea , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 85
Images: 1
Lightbulb Building a septic system

has anyone done this?

I'm setting up the permament home for my 19 foot International and considering the ability to host comp parking... I'd like to have a septic tank for the a/s without tying into the septic system for the house. (my neighborhood runs on septic everywhere.

Doe anyone know of a DIY guide for assembling a system that will work?

Thanks,

Javier
__________________
Javi
Lauderdale-By-The-Sea, FL
2018 30' International Signature
(Truly Work from Anywhere)
2017 F250 "Super Judy"
GolfStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 07:21 PM   #2
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
hi javier and welcome to the forums....

isn't most of florida one big french drain?

search 'septic' and there are a few threads...

nick, just up the road from you, is our resident expert...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/77950-post5.html

here is another one with good links and,

the straight poop.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ole-25326.html

i couldn't resist...

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 07:44 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,800
Better check with the MAN!

Javier,

Most septic systems are controlled by "The Man", and I don't mean the IBT! It will all depend if you want a "midnight" system or one approved by the local gov.. Most Septic tanks are connected to a drain field unless you have a pump&haul. The drain field can be a "standard" drain field which is nothing more than lines with holes under ground in gravel, there's low pressure systems, etc.... lots of different kinds. You my find the type of system used will depend on the type of soil. Again, it will be up to you and or your local gov. If you get caught installing a "midnight" system which could be nothing more than a 55Gal drum with holes shot into it buried under ground, it could cost you a few bucks in fines from "The Man". If you still have an "outhouse" that is "grandfathered" in, they work well too. Good luck.
__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 08:18 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Tarheel's Avatar
 
2001 34' Limited S/O
Moyock , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,010
Images: 21
Living in the country can have its benefits. A big hole in the ground, a 55 gallon plastic pickle barrel, drill 1/2" holes in the sides about 12" from bottom to about 12" from top. In sandy soil this is enough, in heavy soil you will need a drain field. You can't do this everywhere but for light use it works.
__________________
Keep the shiny side up.
WBCCI # 348
Past Region 3 President
Past President Tidewater Unit 111
Rick Bell in "Silverbell"
Tarheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 08:59 PM   #5
2 Rivet Member
 
1963 19' Globetrotter
Ingram , Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 25
midnight septic x 2

Hey guys,

Many years ago, in Soldotna Alaska, I put in an "out of sight - out of mind" septic system. It was much the same as those already mentioned. I cascaded three 55 gal drums to triple the capacity as the thought of digging in or around a waste garden did not meet my criteria of a good time. I also backfilled with gravel about a foot or so under and around each drum. I seperated them about ten feet apart, the length of a 3" piece of pvc.
This engineering marvel lasted for the three years we used it without a hitch, a smell or a freeze up. The catch is we hualed all our water. Pouring water into a 69 31 foot's fill spout at 30 degrees below zero is a thought provoking experience. You pour fast, brother, you pour real fast. Anyway, we lived on about 40 gallon of water a week. It worked for us with limited water use, might work for you if you are cautious with water. One other thing, we kept the the black water holding tank valve closed until we had a full tank, then we dumped. We learned from experience that the trickle down method of holding tank use was of no use to us.
Chick
ChicknKathy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 09:22 PM   #6
3 Rivet Member
 
claybags's Avatar
 
2007 25' Safari FB SE
rio rico , Arizona
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 119
Try ECO-NOMIC homepage. Just about all the info you'll ever need for designing and building a system....but you may want to leave it up to the "experts".
Have fun!!!
Cheers, jeff
__________________
2007 Safari 25 FB SE LS
2006 Chev Express 3500 Duramax
Predator tuner
Equal-i-zer hitch
"Home is where the ART is"
claybags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 11:23 PM   #7
4 Rivet Member
 
B4WEDI's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari SE
Nawthin' , Hemisphere
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Images: 2
Among other professional pursuits and endeavors, I am a Licensed Septic System Designer / Installer and Certified Wetland Scientist in NH. Of course regulations vary from state to state, county to county and town to town. Here where I am staying in North-central Florida, it is my understanding that the local building officials along with the State will assist you in the design process of your septic system.

Usually all systems are based on soil conditions. It is important to determine the depth of the Seasonal High Water Table. Not necessarily observed water in a hole, but what elevation the water comes to during the wettest time of the year and naturally, that elevation will vary year to year. To make this determination we dig a "Test Pit". Using Soils Morphology techniques, examining soil color, structure and consistency, we are able to determine what that elevation is.

NH for instance, wants a minimum of 4' separation between the bottom of your leaching area ( bed bottom ) and the seasonal high water table. This assures the effluent is being treated and cleansed of harmful bacteria and pathogens before being recharged into the groundwater and ultimately into you or your neighbors well, maybe even a neighbor very far away.

If the system is too low into the ground disregarding this separation, each Spring or rainy season, the system would be inundated and saturated, causing a premature failure at the least, groundwater contamination at the worst.

Next is a "Perk Test" to determine how quickly the ground absorbs water at that particular site. The slower the perk rate ( expressed as minutes per inch ) the more leach area ( square footage ) you need. Soil structure and consistency generally determine the perk rate. For example, medium and coarse sands will perk ( accept water ) much faster than fine sands, silts and clays.

Septic tank sizes are determined by the amount of water you will use on a daily basis. This "gallons per day" is usually called out by the State regulatory agency based on the number of bedrooms that will use that system. The tank is designed to separate the "solids" ( ca-ca & paper ) that will settle to the bottom, from the grease, fats and soaps that will float to the top. The black water in between is what is called "effluent" and is all that should be discharged to the field. Solids, soaps and grease will clog the receiving area under the field and again cause it to fail prematurely. There are baffles at the inlet and outlet pipe to help ensure a minimum of the scum layer escapes. This demonstrates the importance of having your septic tank pumped on a regular basis. No amount of magic potents, yeast or other additives takes the place of this pumping to remove the scum layer at the top and the solids on the bottom. Cheap insurance.

I would not advise doing this as a "Mid-nite Special" but highly recommend professional help at least through the planning stages. If your going to put forth the effort and expense, you may as well make it count and have it documented. Regulations just keep getting tighter and tighter every year. It won't be any easier to get through the maze next year.

Installing the thing is pretty straight forward and often municipalities will allow a homeowner to install his own system for a dwelling which is his primary residence without a license. You don't want to get bagged doing this without the benefit of local approvals.

There is a lot more to it, minimum distances and setbacks to water sources, wetlands and poorly drained soils as well as topography concerns are among other design criterea. More info can be found at twhatem, septic system design,site assessments,

It won't relate specifically to your job or FL regulations, but may fill in some blanks. Good Luck, further questions ? Feel free.
__________________
*** KEEP LOOKING UP ***

T & K



B4WEDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 07:46 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,335
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
nick, just up the road from you, is our resident expert...2air'
This thread is of interest,
http://www.airforums.com/forum...e-25326-2.html
and my current system is described at post 23. I've found that a small traditional leach field is not best suited to the sudden 30 gallon onslaught from the black tank, and that a system using two 50 gallon plastic tanks works very well. The two tanks are within a foot of each other, and each tank has a small air vent, with screw-on end caps that are only removed when the black tank is dumped. The joints between the soil pipes and the tanks are made simply by spraying an aerosol can of foam round the joints to the holes cut in the tanks. The 3 inch pipe joining the two tanks turns through a right angle and goes 4 inches below the water level in the primary tank. With a short length of pipe, some plumbing parts and a can of foam, with two free tanks from a nearby dairy farm, the system cost about $25. It works very well, with no smell when the vents are capped, and I'm very satisfied as to its ecological effect.
Nick.
__________________
Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
nickcrowhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 08:06 AM   #9
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
Images: 260
do you have these 55-gallon drum systems pumped out? how frequently?

B4Wedihave we met in person yet? )
since you're from "around here"...whats your recommendation for having the house's septic system pumped out? how often?
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 08:19 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfStream
has anyone done this?

I'm setting up the permament home for my 19 foot International and considering the ability to host comp parking... I'd like to have a septic tank for the a/s without tying into the septic system for the house. (my neighborhood runs on septic everywhere.

Doe anyone know of a DIY guide for assembling a system that will work?

Thanks,

Javier
This might be your best bet....
FloJet RV Waste Pump Kit - Camping World
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 09:08 AM   #11
4 Rivet Member
 
B4WEDI's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari SE
Nawthin' , Hemisphere
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Images: 2
Howdy Chuck ! Sorry to say, I don't recall the pleasure.

The long answer :

Mostly, the frequency between pumpings varies with use, tank size and construction come into play. The idea is to have a wide separation in the tank between the scum layer and the solids, keeping the effluent as clean as possible. Every time you take a shower, flush a toilet or run the washer, you stir up the tank pretty good. The fuller the tank of scum and solids, its effeciency is reduced and the more dissolved solids escape the tank untreated. That crap get together out in your field and eventually seal off the receiving area. $$

( there are filters you can add to the outlet pipe to catch these solids, of course they requires periodic maintainance, but they are beneficial. Some Towns in our area require them when designing a new system )

Zillions of microscopic anaerobic bacteria are swimming around at work in your tank digesting solids. Once they leave the tank in the effluent and go into the field they die off like fish out of water and another army of aerobic, or oxygen loving bacteria take over to hopefully finish the job of digesting all the bad stuff before that effluent is again returned to the water table and eventually into someones drinking water.

Remember the separation between Bed Bottom and Seasonal High Water ? The aerobic bacteria need time and the right conditions to work...... and of course, if you flood the field each Spring, you drown the aerobic bacteria and they die..... Game over. You see those candy canes on peoples front lawn ? Ugly, I know, but those are vents to feed the bacteria oxygen to stimulate and encourage their growth. They are your friends !

NO Garbage Disposals or water purification systems ( especially salt systems ) should be backflushed into the septic system....... watch continual big dumps from jacuzzis & mega-gallon whirlpools.
Of course it goes without saying, don't wash paint brushes in your sink or dump chemicals, acids or add anything else that would harm or kill off those friendly little bacteria in the tank. You want to nourish them and encourage their growth, be kind to them, for they too are your friends !

The short answer:

In a residential family situation, every two years is a good starting point. A GOOD pumper, not necessarily the cheeepest, will monitor those levels for you as well as inspect the baffles each time and get you on a good schedule without overdoing it. Find a guy who enjoys his work

It's one of those pay me now or pay me later situations.
Couple hundred bux every two years beats the cost of a new system these days.

Hope to see you down the road !
__________________
*** KEEP LOOKING UP ***

T & K



B4WEDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 09:29 AM   #12
Rivet Monster
 
wahoonc's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,172
Images: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by B4WEDI
Of course regulations vary from state to state, county to county and town to town. Here where I am staying in North-central Florida, it is my understanding that the local building officials along with the State will assist you in the design process of your septic system.
They will here in NC too and if it doesn't work it is your fault We had a very nice system designed by an engineer that does this for a living, he specializes in the larger systems but did the smaller system as a favor. They county/state wouldn't pass it and insisted that we add some more items to the system, so we did and ran the cost up an addtional $8,000 or so...system wouldn't work, so the permit to use it was pulled, had to bring in a portable toilets to use while it was being fought out. In the end we were finally allowed to put the system back to the original design, every bit of the cost came out of our pockets with no recourse on the state or county "know betters" I would be very hesitant to accept any help from the government. This was my case and yours may vary our $15,000 system ended up costing almost 2.5 times that much

Aaron
__________________
....so many Airstreams....so little time...
WBCCI #XXXX AIR #2495
Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 09:44 AM   #13
4 Rivet Member
 
B4WEDI's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari SE
Nawthin' , Hemisphere
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Images: 2
I agree Aaron, when I have a toothache, I never call a Shoemaker......

....or put another way, when my Airstream is ailin' I don't bring it to the SOB dealer, I come here !

When in doubt, call a Pro who will work on your behalf.
__________________
*** KEEP LOOKING UP ***

T & K



B4WEDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2007, 07:55 AM   #14
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,335
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
do you have these 55-gallon drum systems pumped out? how frequently?
Chuck, I don't intend to pump them out. The primary tank is permanently full to the outlet level to the second tank. This second tank is perforated over its lower two thirds with half inch diameter holes, and it is buried in a pit about one foot larger all round than the tank. The space is filled with broken pieces of concrete which were lying around, and only required beating with a large hammer until they were a couple of inches across. This second tank is empty, except shortly after the black tank is dumped. I leave the grey tank valve open all the time.
I've operated a septic tank system at my home for the past 20 years, it has never required pumping out, nor has it produced odours. I monitor the sediment and sludge layers, and no action has been required. There is good professional advice above concerning pumping out every 2 years, and this is doubtless correct for a normal household where a dishwasher and washing machine may be used, and household chemicals such as bleach may find their way into the septic system. However, we are very careful to feed our home and trailer septic systems with the correct ingredients, so we hope never to pump out.
Nick.
__________________
Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
nickcrowhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2007, 08:33 AM   #15
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
Images: 260
...but the solids have to go somewhere. maybe it just takes "a long long" time for them to accumulate.

A bunch of years ago, I took a class on waste-water treatment. (long story...part of a civil engineering program...just doing some exploring). I could have gotten a license to work at a sewer plant. Just to qualify that I do have some basic knowledge about the workings.

septic systems are a little different, but some basic principles must still remain the same. the "primary" treatment is just a settling tank. Solids that are suspended in the water either float, or sink. they don't just "go away". Some solids are disolved in the water...these are removed in the secondary treatment...(the "leaching field" in a septic system.). But those undisolved solids, or "settleable solids", as they call them...thats stuff that won't ever disolve...its going to build up, eventually. again, maybe it just takes a long long time.

I've never had the tank pumped here at my house, either, and I should. just seems that the standard "every 2 years" schedule seems rather extreme, especially since everything seems to work just fine after 13. The first 10 or so years, we were hardly ever here...just the wife and me, both working all day, eating out alot, not running the dishwasher much, no disposal, etc, etc. the drainage is excellent, too. So its not a "typical" or even "average" situation. But still...
I guess when you consider that in every "flush" of wastewater, its still something like 99% water...and considering the amount of stuff that would come from the travel trailer parked in your yard, it would still take a very very long time to fill a 55 gallon drum.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2007, 08:56 AM   #16
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,335
Images: 4
My understanding of a "two tank" septic system is that the first tank acts as a digester, reducing the solid human waste to liquid form, and the second tank is a soakaway. Any solids remaining at the bottom of the primary tank will be mainly grit. This grit may need to be removed if users have not been careful to minimize it. This differs from a city sewage system, in that the trailer black tank contents in the primary can digest undisturbed for several days, weeks or months until the next onslaught . Transference of solids from the primary to the secondary is restricted by the 90 degree bend in the outlet from the primary. My experience supports this theory.
Nick.
__________________
Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
nickcrowhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2007, 09:27 AM   #17
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
Images: 260
kinda funny when you think that I know how to deal with "millions" of gallons of wastewater...but not "hundreds", or even "tens". LOL!

And that may be the key: in a large municipal system, there's no time to let it cook. maybe the stuff would (or "does") disolve, if you could let it sit for long enough. They do transfer these solids to "sludge digesters" in larger plants; but that doesn't make it disappear, either. it just gets broken down further. There's still lots of solid material that needs to be disposed of, either in a landfill or incinerator...some is turned into fertilizer. But it does have to go somewhere.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2007, 11:21 AM   #18
Tom, the Uber Disney Fan
 
Minnie's Mate's Avatar
 
2006 30' Safari
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,693
Images: 7
I thought home septic systems had a large enough volume to solid capacity to allow enough time for the good bacteria to eat (digest) and expel (well, turn it into bacteria's liquid poop) before it was leached out into the drain lines as non-dangerous water that would be filtered by the soil.

I would imagine a municipal system with enough capacity to allow for that kind of natural process to occur would have to be twice the size of the municipality it served (forgive the exaggeration, but you know what I mean). I thought the sludge was a product of reducing the size of the system and rushing the process beyond what could be done by nature.
__________________
2006 30' Safari - "Changes in Latitudes"
2008 F-250 Lariat Power Stroke Diesel Crew Cab SWB
Family of Disney Fanatics
WBCCI# 4821
https://streaminacrossamerica.com/
Minnie's Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2007, 01:41 PM   #19
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
Images: 260
well, "kind of".

basic sewer plant functionality: wastewater enters the plant and goes into a huge "primary" tank, where solids float/sink, and are pumped off. then the water (still full of "disolved solids") goes into a much larger secondary tank, where it sits for a longer period of time, and is pumped full of air, to encourage aerobic bacteria, which process the disolved solids, and transform them into "settleable" solids...(so, NOT liquid poop, but solid poop), which sink, and are pumped off. the remainder is nearly drinkable water...it passes through a chlorination system, and is then de-chlorinated before being returned to the river. (or ocean, or whatever).

now..the activity in a septic tank is ANerobic. (that's what "septic" means). these bacteria work in an low/no oxygen environment, and get their "O" by chemical means...extracting O atoms from other molecules, and giving off hydrogen sulfide, methane, and other stinky stuff. they work slower than the aerobes that breath atmospheric O2...so maybe they also can "liquify" the stuff, but it takes longer? I don't know.
but anyway, yes, time is definately "of the essence" when it comes to sewer treatment plants.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2007, 05:01 PM   #20
4 Rivet Member
 
bobchevy89's Avatar
 
1977 24' Argosy 24
Inverness , Florida
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 264
[quote=Chuck]them into "settleable" solids...(so, NOT liquid poop, but solid poop), which sink, and are pumped off. the remainder is nearly drinkable water...it passes through a chlorination system, and is then de-chlorinated before being returned to the river. (or ocean, or whatever).


Hey Chuck if you ever get a chance to go to LA take a tour of their sewer plant. upon entering you are given a small cup of water to taste. an the end of the tour they remind you of the water that you drank, it was from the treatment plant. also on the space station the liquids are recycled.
__________________
just want to camp happy
bobchevy89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
electrical system 67 tradewind boardsander Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 3 10-14-2002 04:32 PM
travelling w/out water system maznblu Fresh Water Systems 6 09-09-2002 12:03 PM
Flowmaster RV exhaust system rdm Airstream Motorhome Forums 2 07-09-2002 03:35 PM
Electrical System Question ViewRVs Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 2 03-16-2002 07:39 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.