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Old 01-26-2008, 07:23 PM   #1
bilby05
 
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1962 24' Tradewind
1962 24' Tradewind
Canyon , Texas
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Blackwater tank flange

I am progressing, slowly, in my efforts to straighten out the plumbing on our Airstream. I have a huge garbage can of removed parts and various kinds of hoses and pipes. I have the pex all strung through the various pipeways and am counting my "sharkbite fittings" and seeing which ones I need to acquire to finish what I started.

Bought a new Thetford "Style Lite" toilet and am nearly ready to install it. Does anybody need an old AquaMagic 1800, for the cost of shipping it to you? It has a great ceramic bowl, but the valve has a leak, or one of the lines that goes up to the bowl rim, water supply, thing. Might be good for someone who has a cracked pot. (sorry, couldn't help myself :-)

The old flange, the one screwed to the floor, has rusted. The screws are thus-far un-removable. I used some high power rust solvent, but no luck so far. I am probably going to locate one of those grabit tools to back the screws out. My question has to do with what happens after I remove the screws. Everyone seems to suggest that the flange is screwed to the pipe that goes into the tank. One suggestion is to use a large combination wrench, looping the box end over one toilet securing bolt and the other on the appropriate side of the other bolt to unscrew the flange counterclockwise. Does this sound right? I can't count the number of projects that have grown from small to large because of a mis-step in overapplication of pressure. The "get a bigger hammer" concept has caused much grief in my various projects. Any suggestions, or does the above sound right?
thanks, bill b.
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:39 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilby05
I am progressing, slowly, in my efforts to straighten out the plumbing on our Airstream. I have a huge garbage can of removed parts and various kinds of hoses and pipes. I have the pex all strung through the various pipeways and am counting my "sharkbite fittings" and seeing which ones I need to acquire to finish what I started.

Bought a new Thetford "Style Lite" toilet and am nearly ready to install it. Does anybody need an old AquaMagic 1800, for the cost of shipping it to you? It has a great ceramic bowl, but the valve has a leak, or one of the lines that goes up to the bowl rim, water supply, thing. Might be good for someone who has a cracked pot. (sorry, couldn't help myself :-)

The old flange, the one screwed to the floor, has rusted. The screws are thus-far un-removable. I used some high power rust solvent, but no luck so far. I am probably going to locate one of those grabit tools to back the screws out. My question has to do with what happens after I remove the screws. Everyone seems to suggest that the flange is screwed to the pipe that goes into the tank. One suggestion is to use a large combination wrench, looping the box end over one toilet securing bolt and the other on the appropriate side of the other bolt to unscrew the flange counterclockwise. Does this sound right? I can't count the number of projects that have grown from small to large because of a mis-step in overapplication of pressure. The "get a bigger hammer" concept has caused much grief in my various projects. Any suggestions, or does the above sound right?
thanks, bill b.
Usually it's becomes necessary to break the metal flange out in pieces, if everything else failures.

That's what a shop would do.

New flanges for many years are plastic.

I would suggest that you check the black tank out very well after breaking the flange, since it could be damaged.

Unfortunately, there is not much else thaqt you can do.

Andy
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:39 PM   #3
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The closet flange will unscrew from the tank, I had to use a hammer and punch to get it moving. I also noticed after managing to get the screws unscrewed, the wood was quite soft there, you may have to perform some repairs on the wood.
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Old 01-26-2008, 09:05 PM   #4
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I guess it depends on the year. In my 1965 the flange is mounted on what looks like cast iron pipe extending about 6" down. I suspect the pipe goes deep inside the tank, that is just 1.5" below the flange under the floor.
I tried to unscrew it, but would probably have to do what Andy says.
After some rethinking I figured out, that I don't really want to know what is it "down there" and decided to leave it alone. I have small sweating when I fill the tank up to the ring, what takes lot of gargling. So probably there is small leak on the top tank seal, but not likely I will have the tank that full while camping.
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Old 01-26-2008, 11:33 PM   #5
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The Joy of a Sewer System

My 72' black water tank screwed. I was unaware of this. I could tell there was something I wasn't seeing. So I cut a slot in the inter side until I noticed the threads, at that point it unscrewed easily. If your tank is cracked look up Repairing Plastic Tanks thread for some options.
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Old 01-27-2008, 12:44 AM   #6
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It was easy to break the iron flange out of my 1960 Safari. I made some cuts into the inside of the old flange with a sawzall, and broke the flange apart. I was careful to not cut too far. I would do this before I wasted too much time on other methods.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:45 AM   #7
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Translation?

Thanks for the info, everybody. I think I am getting hung up on the terminology I am using. SO: Looking at the toilet/tank fitting in profile, the layers, from top down, would be?
1.) Toilet
2.) Metal flange(with long toilet hold down bolts and screws holding flange to the floor)
3.) Flange(or is it a pipe?) made of same material as tank and screwed into the tank.
4.) Tank

So it seems that what is being said is that the screws holding the metal flange to the floor must be removed. Then the metal flange can be unscscrewed from the plastic tank flange(or would it be a pipe?) If the metal flange can not be unscrewed from the tank then it needs to be broken up into pieces that will be removeable.

I think I understand now.

thanks, bill b.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:51 AM   #8
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Bill, here is a pic of the closet flange for our toilet:
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:56 PM   #9
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More flange stuff

Yep. Thats what mine looks like, sorta. I am guessing those shiney white looking things are screws. Mine are more like small lumps of rust. I think I am getting the feel for it now. I tried the little grabber do dads, use one end to burnish and the other end to slooooooly back the screw out. Right. Nope. Next I tried to drill them out. The drill dances all over the place. I am beginning to see why Andy said most shops break the old ones out. I can now see: the sponge-rubber-like donut seal on the top just lifts off like the toilet. The metal flange (on mine) is attached to the floor with about 6 screws. The black plastic insert in the metal flange is the part that is actually screwed into the tank. So...now I am going to "carefully"(medium size chisel and hammer) break up the rusted metal ring. Then "carefully" (after trying to unscrew it) use a hacksaw blade to slice into the black flange insert, just enough to begin to reveal the threads and weaken its grip on the tank. I guess then I buy a new plastic and metal flange doohickey. Technically speaking of course.
cheers, bill b.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:23 PM   #10
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Chisel or hacksaw use in such application is very difficult not to mention danger. What I do is drilling row of holes. Start with a small bit to avoid "bit dancing" and than follow with bigger one till the holes connect. Small pieces left can be broken with screwdriver.
That's about the flange. I assume that after breaking off the flange the tank can be removed and the remaining pipe deal with on the bench.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:00 PM   #11
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I ended up getting a new blackwater tank as my tank was damaged removing the flange. It was a blessing that it happened as I found significat crack in the old tank on the bottom. Looked like it had happened some time ago.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
Usually it's becomes necessary to break the metal flange out in pieces, if everything else failures.

That's what a shop would do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Boy! that was a booger. I cut the metal, drilled the screws, tried the "grabit" screw extracters, and finally was able to remove the metal part. Unfortunately, I damaged the beautiful green carpet that Airstream used as a shim between the wood floor and the bottom of the flange. Oh well, I am sure I can replace that.:-) Now the next big move is to remove the black plastic part of the flange. Looks like I can wrap the strap wrench around the top edge and unscrew it. Hopefully without damaging the tank. Saved that fun part for another day. If it does not respond I think more "plastic" surgery is in order.
bill b.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:32 AM   #13
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Progress, at last

Thanks to a lot of forum help, I got the flange out. Another fine mess. I used a drill to drill out the screws. Then a pneumatic cutoff tool with a grit blade to slice the metal in a couple of places. Cut the rubber/plastic flange part with a "flush" saw. Mine was the japanese draw style from Harbor Freight. Sliced into the plastic flange just enough to barely reach the threads, but sufficient to weaken the flange enough to break it apart. and Taaaa...Daaa.. it finally popped out. Checked out the glued in "receiver" fitting and it seems to be in good shape. So now I just need to get a new flange, use stainless steel screws this time, install it and install the toilet. May decide to put a layer of fiberglas on the floor to avoid future rot, but the floor plywood seems solid so may just soak it with some wood hardener. Took about 4 hours of work, more careful than I usually am, but for me haste makes broken stuff. BTW when working on drain stuff never leave your box of spare electrical parts on the shelf next to the hole, and did you know that fuses and electrical connection parts can't be retrieved with a magnet? Don't ask.
cheers, bill b.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:36 PM   #14
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Glad to hear you got it out. Sounds like your patience paid off and you did a better job than my brute force method.
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