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Old 01-28-2004, 08:52 AM   #15
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I was hopping for an upgrade. to somthing like you have. I think that the wife wil not like the "OEM" system you have discribed.
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Tedd Ill
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Old 01-28-2004, 12:52 PM   #16
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Till

A 1967 Black water tank was not round.

Go to our web site, inlandrv.com

Look up part number 91310.

A 67 could have had a notch in the tank that was for the "P" trap clearance.

However, some 67's did not need that cutout.

Andy
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Old 01-28-2004, 02:28 PM   #17
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Andy,
Thanks!
Two things.....
First, do I have to drill the hole for the toilet??
Second, it the foam block still available.

This is going to be the first part of my rehab of the trailer. I'm assuming (I know that this is dangerous) that you have to install the black tank before you put down the decking. I have to (as you can see in the above photo) start from scratch. Building the box seems easy enough, but a photo of diagram of how the whole thing goes together would be of great help. Once that is done, then the new axles will go under it.

I'm sure that I will find out how the whole rear end goes together.
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Yes, four kids and two adults in the thing.
Happy wife, happy life.
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Old 01-28-2004, 03:35 PM   #18
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Till.

The top holes are put in by the owner. There is anvariation as to the exact location of those holes, therefore it makes better sense to install the floor flange and vent pipe fittings in the field. Thery are simply glassed in.

The tank mounts from underneath the trailer, in your case.

There should be an outline on the bottom of the floor where the old tank touched the wood. Also you should find the mounting holes for the "pan."

Andy
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:27 PM   #19
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I see that I am not being clear on what I'm looking for.

I see what you are saying Andy, about installing the holes at the time of tank installation. This makes things easier for me. I was planning on moving the toilet a little to the right of it's orginal planned location.

My problem is, replacing the original galvinzed box and strapping system that held the tank in the first place. I took a couple of more pictures to try and clarify what I'm getting at. That and the wording of my original post in this thread most likely did not help.

Here is the picture that I think will help make my question a little more clear.



How do I go about rebuilding this area of my trailer? I see that two cross members need to be replaced along with the bumper. One looks to be 3/4" angle iron that was cut out to remove the old tank at some point. The other is the twisted "u" channel that the shell attaches too. Also, is the foam "lego" piece still available?
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1967/8 Overlander International Twin w/ bunk/s.
Yes, four kids and two adults in the thing.
Happy wife, happy life.
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Old 01-28-2004, 07:30 PM   #20
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Till, you were right about the pic clearing things up. You are missing a substantial amount of stuff. I think the black tank might not be the most important thing to fix right now. If you have frame rust and that much damage to the rear a major structural repair needs to be made first.

How is the rest of the trailer?
Is the rust and rot isolated to this area?
If not a complete floor replacement and major frame repair might be needed first.

Quote:
How do I go about rebuilding this area of my trailer? I see that two cross members need to be replaced along with the bumper.
That should be the first repair. Get you frame solid while it is exposed.
We just ordered some metal to repair our 68. Getting it custom fabricated to weld onto the exsisting areas of the frame. It is much easier to work on, and weld the frame when the floor is missing. Our welder wished we hadn't replaced the floor yet.

For the other stuff that goes back, you have options. Tanks can be found online, the galvanized pan can be made by a local metal shop, I can give you demsions for a 68 pan. I Don't know if they are the same. The foam can be remade also.

You have room to design your own custom set up, or find some one with a set up you can copy. If you find out a 67 is the same as 68 I can help out.

You should read some other threads about black tanks and plumbing. Like in the interior repair forum. Or do a search for related threads.
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Old 01-28-2004, 07:30 PM   #21
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Till.

WHOA....STOP.... HOLD UP....ALTO....FREEZE

Your trying to get to Hollywood via the Brooklyn Bridge.

Your approach as per the picture is the reversal of the correct method, to repair the rear end of your trailer.

Call me at 800-8777311 and I will give you the directions.

After that, you can post those directions for others to digest.

Andy
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Old 01-29-2004, 12:38 PM   #22
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Thank you Andy!!!

I called Andy at Inland and man did he have the answer. Now the course of action is clear and the trailer will live to camp an other day. (though it still a few years away lost of work to do).

Thank you angain Andy.

I will post the solution later tonight when I get home and draw up the needed parts.
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1967/8 Overlander International Twin w/ bunk/s.
Yes, four kids and two adults in the thing.
Happy wife, happy life.
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Old 01-29-2004, 07:15 PM   #23
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"Holy crap batman!!!"

Talk about a crash course! This is one power packed thread.

1) Streamsaver, when did you come over and take a picture of my floor?

2) till, I think one of the biggest problems is all that white stuff on the ground. I am not liking the cold concrete here in sunny (actually foggy) california. I sure would loose my sparkle in that white stuff.

3) When I go the the casinos in Tahoe, they keep saying "hard ways work" at the craps table. Now I see they are talking about Airstream restoration.

4) What do you get when you work your fingers to the bone?.....


bonny fingers!

I look forward to seeing Andys' attack plan.

Bruce
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Old 01-30-2004, 06:54 PM   #24
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Well here it goes.
As you can see from my previous posts, most of the rear of my trailer has been torn out. The PO removed the blackwater tank and most of the surrounding wood, aluminum and steel. (I did not mean to hijack Tom's thread.)
After talking to Andy and looking at my trailer I think I can explain this.

First; I'm going to do a shell removal as I want to replace all the deck. So how you attack this may differ a little. I can explain this via E-mail or PM if anyone is interested.

What you need to do is give the shell some place to attach to the frame, other than the two spots on the frame rails. Being in the fun world of maintenance and working in a machine shop I see where Andy is coming from with "Balance your running gear!" I will not go into this here.

By adding more surface area to attach the shell you distribute the load and get rid of a lot of the sag issues and stress associated with it.

You need to add "wings" to the outside of the frame under the shell. See attached image;



Andy recommends 2 X 2 X 1/4inch, but I am using 4 X 4 X 1/4 inch angle iron (it was a freebie) cut to 4 inches. This is welded (you may bolt it, but I think a weld will be superior) to the outside with the flat facing the wood deck. You will then drill through the "U" or "L" (depending on year) channel through the deck and through the angle iron. Install a bolt in each side.

After you install the "wings" you should also install a 4 inch wide 1/4 inch thick plate between the frame rails (again where the shell will be). Welding is the best here. Again drill and bolt the shell down to this plate. You now have around eight anchor points vs. the two originally there.

I hope that this is somewhat clear. I plan on taking photos as I do this.
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Yes, four kids and two adults in the thing.
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Old 01-30-2004, 07:46 PM   #25
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Part two. or the things I forgot to mention......

When installing the "wings" and 4 inch wide plate (spanner plate) the frame will be clamped down and in alignment. I plan on replacing the forward piece of 3/4 inch (I think) angle iron that holds the blackwater tank in place. The rear piece should bolt in place as you will need to remove this piece to get the tank back out. I also believe that there are two straps that go fore and aft to aid in holding the tank up. I will get clarification on this when the time comes to actually install the tank. I will also have to fabricate the sewer hose box. I doubt that this is a structural part of the frame. The bumper is on the other hand, but I do not think I need to go into that here. (You have to remember here that the frame, floor and shell are all part of the strength. Each relying on each other, if one is weakened the whole structure is weakened.)
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Tedd Ill
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1967/8 Overlander International Twin w/ bunk/s.
Yes, four kids and two adults in the thing.
Happy wife, happy life.
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Old 01-31-2004, 11:04 AM   #26
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That sounds like what we are doing to our 68. we are stiffening the frame with a 1/8 steel sleeve that will slide into the frame c channel. Then a bigger rear crossmember to bolt the shell to.
Does anyone know when Airstream switched from a forged c-channel frame to a bent plate steel channel frame? I know it was between 63 and 67. Was it a plan to lighten the trailer? Does the switch in frames relate to the rear end sag issue?

AND has any one thought about replacing the steel frame with an aluminum frame?
I bet it would be expensive!!!
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Old 01-31-2004, 03:15 PM   #27
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Aluminum frame

Streamsaver:
My '59 has a welded rectangular tube frame, don't know if the C channel was maybe a California vs Ohio variation.
Re: aluminum frame-I think by the time you made an aluminum frame strong enough to equal a steel frame, it might weigh as much as steel. To start with, I'd want to make the frame a lot deeper and the flanges a lot thicker. Like maybe 2◊6 ◊1/4"?
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Old 01-31-2004, 03:24 PM   #28
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An aluminum frame for a travel trailer was tested by Southwest Research in San Antonio, some 35 years ago.

It was an absolute failure.

The steel coupler attachment area failed, as well as the A frame.

The axle attachments failed as well.

Andy
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