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JmesDean · 01-24-2006, 06:19 PM

Was hooking up the hose to my black tank flush, turned the water on and heard a "POP!"

Seemed something (I believe the filter) popped off and seems to be "stuck" somewhere down the line as I'm not getting the water pressure to clean the black tank as before. I took the rig into my 'stream service center (needing the yearly maintenance look over) and mentioned this to them. They said it's not covered under Airstream's 2-year Warranty

(my rig is less than 2 years old). I'm going to call Airstream tomorrow but wanted to see if anybody else has had a similar problem.

cosmotini · 01-24-2006, 06:55 PM

I don't know what the cause of your problem is but when I was at the factory in November, one of the service people told me that the black tank flush was one of the highest volume repair items. He said that sand/small rocks get in the hose and block up the jets.

Dennis

Silvertwinkie · 01-24-2006, 07:12 PM

The one nice thing about Airstream is that they do fully stand behind it. I would be VERY shocked if Airstream said it was not covered under warranty if in fact you have warranty left.

My initial reaction is that the dealer just didn't want to deal with the problem, or didn't know how to fix it. I agree, call Airstream.

Our 2004 is the first coach we've owned with the black tank flush. So far in a bit over two years, no problems....yet.

2airishuman · 01-24-2006, 07:24 PM

after 3 days and 8 pages of repairs in august at jc........

my black tank flush stopped working and began leaking the fresh water.....

the next night after i left the factory......

you may be right cosmo....maybe i picked up one of those pebbles from the terra port and plugged up the works......

i've been flushing the old fashion way since.......but i'm gonna have it fixed under warranty in a couple of weeks.....

jmesdean.......i agree with twink, the dealer doesn't want to deal with it. on items like this the factory pays the dealer an hourly rate based on a formula in a book....after the dealer submits the claim...... sorta like medicare.....and if the dealer hasn't done any/many of these it will take longer than the 'allowable'......

call the factory have them approve the repair and call the dealer for you or call another dealer. then get 'yer appointment.......

we must hold every dealer to the highest standard for service!!!!!

cheers
2air'

SmokelessJoe · 01-24-2006, 08:36 PM

Is the device you are disscussing here something recently added to Airstreams?

Is it similar to or the same as the No Fuss Flush device sold at Camping World, Coast and others?

Sergei

cosmotini · 01-24-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

Is the device you are disscussing here something recently added to Airstreams?

Is it similar to or the same as the No Fuss Flush device sold at Camping World, Coast and others?

Sergei

Sergei,

It is the same thing.

Dennis

AgZep · 01-24-2006, 10:13 PM

On our 28' CCD, the black tank flush inlet penetrates the exterior behind and beneath the main kitchen sink. From the inlet, the pipe heads up vertically to a check valve mechanism, presumably to prevent black tank gasses or water from the tank from backing up into the flush plumbing.

Some time last spring, as we were flushing the system for the first or second time since the unit came off the line, we hard a pop and then the sound of water running inside. Turned out that check valve had failed. Fortunately, very little water leaked out, and the valve was easy to see from beneath the sink. Of course, the dealer had no such valve in their inventory. They took it out and tried to clean it, to no avail.

So we just found the manufacturer's name printed on the valve, googled them, and contacted them directly. We explained where the part had broken, and they sent us a new one for free. Took me about five minutes to install.

Apparently, these things are often broken by overealous mechanics or installers. I'm not sure if your problem is related to our saga, but it seems prudent to make sure you're not leaking water inside the trailer somewhere, like we were.

JmesDean · 01-25-2006, 08:18 AM

I'm calling Airstream as soon as I'm done typing... will advise you on what AS says as well as the Service Center (and trust me, I will name names...)

JmesDean · 01-25-2006, 08:27 AM

Just spoke with Rhonda at Airstream (wonderful help by the way) and it IS covered. She was surprised the Service Center had said it wasn't covered... anywho, I'm waiting till 9am PT to call R******** RV

SmokelessJoe · 01-25-2006, 08:46 AM

Hello friends on this thread.

We are installing new tanks on my 1976 Argosy right now and I had intended to install one of these devices on each of them.

It seems there are two things for me to learn from this thread so far:

- watch the back flow valve for signs of trouble

- try fitting a fine screen filter to the supply line; like you often have in a modern clothes washing machine.

Any other advice?

Does the device work well in cleaning the tanks??

Would you instal one in the Fresh Water as well???

Sergei

Silvertwinkie · 01-25-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JmesDean

Just spoke with Rhonda at Airstream (wonderful help by the way) and it IS covered. She was surprised the Service Center had said it wasn't covered... anywho, I'm waiting till 9am PT to call R******** RV

It'd be interesting what they say, but in all honesty, I'd be somewhat concerned that an authorized Airstream Service Center gave you the run around. It builds a perception for me that says:

1) They are not honest
2) They are lazy (couldn't pick up the phone and call Airstream to get the info you did)
3) They aren't the sharpest tacks in the box
4) All 1, 2 and 3
5) They are incompetent in terms of fixing some issues and I'd be concerned handing over a $30k to $50k coach to a group of folks that seem shadey when any additional damage they may do would in fact be hard to fix (scratches to the outside finish, etc).

If you decide to have them repair the coach, be careful. I had a somewhat similar exp with dealer and although they were new, they told me a bunch of things that were not exactly true and of course a call to Airstream got all the issues addressed, in a VERY fast manner.

I have no idea if the dealer is any better because shortly after that exp, I had shopped for the Safari and got a bunch of flack from the dealer so I took my business elsewhere, and never looked back.

**jcanavera** · 01-25-2006, 09:37 AM

The check valve failure is an interesting note. I normally use the black tank flush inlet when I dump for the final time if I have a full hookup site at the end of a outing. What I'm curious about is the source of the water flow used for the flush.

My flush inlet is very close to an outside water outlet on the trailer. When I took delivery of the trailer, I was supplied with a very short length of white water hose, probably less than 2 ft. long that was in the compartment next to the city water hookup (that compartment also contains the flush inlet and the outside water outlet). Not knowing what this hose was for, I use it to connect the trailer's outside water outlet to the flush inlet. For all intents the water being used to flush the black tank is coming through the trailer's water system.

This brings me to my point. Since the trailer's water system is pressure controlled, could the failure of the check valves be due folks directly connecting to city water and a much higher water pressure which causes failure of the check valve? Obviously using the trailer's water would also reduce the potential of debris getting into the check valve.

Jack

JmesDean · 01-25-2006, 10:15 AM

Well, I called them - and its funny you bring up if they're trustworthy or not. I had bought my current 2005 25' Safari SS from them, but not before dealing with an incompetent salesperson. I finally was able to get to the owner, who was more than happy to help me with the purchase and answers to questions I had.

It wasn't until a couple weeks ago, with my rig in their service center, that I had the thought to upgrade my SS to an FB model. Revolution had one advertised in RV Trader Online at a great price and so I call them about it and talk to John, their "Internet Salesperson." Well, he somehow confuses the whole deal with a rig that was approx. $10K more. Long story short, after many phone calls back and forth, their ad is completely wrong and they don't even have a rig at that price nor description!!

So now here I am with my rig stuck in their Service Department for the last 4 weeks and they're telling me Airstream won't fix the Black Tank Flush. I call the Service Department and tell them my conversation with Rhonda at Airstream and they're non-chalant about my concern. AND then to top it off, I call back to talk to whoever is Management for the day (hoping to get one of the owners), the person who answers the phone states he's trying to figure out who it is as well as no one is in yet. Unbelievable...

Is this worthy of filing a complaint with Airstream?

JmesDean · 01-25-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

It seems there are two things for me to learn from this thread so far:

- watch the back flow valve for signs of trouble

- try fitting a fine screen filter to the supply line; like you often have in a modern clothes washing machine.

Any other advice?

Does the device work well in cleaning the tanks??

Would you instal one in the Fresh Water as well???

Sergei

Hi Sergei - the Black Tank Flush (when working) is GREAT! It really cleans the inside of the tank no one wants to have stuff sit in...

I haven't heard about installing one in the Fresh Water because if you're keeping the Fresh Water tank fresh and cleaning it out as instructed, you wouldn't need it. The Black Tank Flush is used for the obvious...

**jcanavera** · 01-25-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JmesDean

Is this worthy of filing a complaint with Airstream?

I wouldn't hesitate.

Jack

2airishuman · 01-25-2006, 11:13 AM

hi jack, jmesdean and others....

good to read the factory cleared this up. again fixing this may be beyond your dealers skill. it will require removing some/part of the belly pan, tank shields and plumbing.......and they may not have done this before.....proceed with caution.

jack....that length of hose was to make connecting shore water to the coach easier and provide a link besides the usual water hose....if you've ever run your water hose up into the compartment, connnected and then closed the door.....well some water hoses are too large to close the door once connected.

it's interesting thay you were able to connect that short piece as you did. that isn't what it's intended for but how creative. my major concern with hooking the fresh water system directly to the black flush is the potential for ANY back flow or contamination of the freshwater system...i know there is a check valve but if it fails your only clue will be after the system is contaminated with e. coli, coliforms, and other bowel critters.......UCK!!!!! and i'm sure that check value setup isn't approved for direct connection to the fresh water system....

i have and use a short piece of hose that is black/green in color. used only for the black flush system and stored away from my fresh water hoses/fixtures......i really don't want the risk that flushing the black tank could lead to contamination of any part of the fresh water system.....

connecting as you do would lower the pressure into the flush system factory boys told me that wasn't needed.

the black water flush system is supposed to tolerate normal city water pressures, i think it's larger diameter piping, and does not have a pressure regulator in line.....think about it......it's the water pressure that swirls around in the tank bottom to loosen crud....it supposed to be higher pressure. for the same reason i would not put a screen in line except at the other end.....right at the water outlet.

the black tank fills very quickly using the flush....i can ususally flush it 3 times in about 15 minutes....before it stopped working. my toilet was replaced and my tank monitors and some line so, i think they must have
unhooked or blocked my flush at the service center....

cheers
2air'

crazylev · 01-25-2006, 11:14 AM

Jack.

Unless I'm mis-reading your post, I think the Black tank flush has it's own regulator. The city inlet also has it's own regulator. I have in my three-ring binder of all things Airstream and the schematic for the black tank flush and I believe it is totally independent from the regular city inlet. In other words, the water going through the BTF is not circulating the entire plumbing system, and vice versa. I can check though.

Regarding a fresh water tank flush, I'd just be careful NOT to use the same water hydrant used to flush the BT. There are warning signs at most dump stations I've paid homage stating that the water is not potable.

Jonathan

SilverRanger · 01-25-2006, 12:15 PM

If not a pressure regulator, I believe there may be some kind of check valve. The reason I say this is I have noticed when I flushed at campgrounds with higher than average water pressure, the sounds coming from the tank was louder and it took less time to flush.

However, when I was winterizing, after I blew out the line with compressed air, I thought it would a good thing to pour some anti-freeze into the flusher line via a short hose and funnel. Although I was relying solely on gravity to feed the pink stuff into the line, it would not accept any anti-freeze into the line.

I belive there may be some issues with my tank flusher as well. It sounded different the last time I used it, so I opened the toilet hatch and looked into the tank with a flashlight (carefully!) while flushing it. There was only a steady stream of water shooting past the opening instead of the swirling action it was supposed to be doing. I may try flushing with higher water pressure before putting it on my growing list of repairs for when we make the trip to Jackson Center.

Silvertwinkie · 01-25-2006, 01:32 PM

Interesting chain of events after you told them about what Airstream said.

If it were my coach, I really and truely would be looking for another place for service (and any future purchases). They have had your coach for 4 weeks now and say it's not covered under warranty? I must be missing something.

Sorry, but your dealer sounds like my first dealer I bought from. I'd run, not walk. You really want them to tear into this thing given your overall interactions with them? I think IMHO that there is slightly over a 50% chance in the end you'll most likely have more problems as a result of the repair than it may be worth or you're gonna have to thump some skulls just to get it done.

...and when it's all over I would let Airstream know about your overall interactions with them, be it in the form of a phone call, letter or formal complaint. This doesn't sound like a good dealer to me.

**jcanavera** · 01-25-2006, 02:20 PM

2air,

I know what you are saying about the contamination issue, but the corollary is that if I'm using the city water faucet that is provided at my campsite, I could potentially contaminate the city water supply also couldn't I? Sort of spooky then in the thought pattern, that using the black water flush inlet can potentially contaminate your fresh water source, be it the trailer or the city water outlet for your campsite.

Regarding the short hose, I see what you are saying there. I bought an "L" adapter that I always connect to the city water hose. Then I connect the adapter to the city water inlet on the trailer. This always allows clearance for the cover to close. The "L" adapters are made by Camco and you will usually find them at Walmart.

One last question 2air, you say that you flush with the black water drain valve closed? I thought the instructions warn you to be sure to leave it open when you actively are rinsing the tank via that inlet.

Jonathan, yes the black water inlet is independent of the trailer water system. In my case I just used an existing water outlet that is on my trailer and near the black water inlet as the means to provide water to the black water inlet. I have a short hose supplied by Airstream which is long enough to join the outlet and the inlet together and in essence water from my water system can feed the black water inlet.

I've never been in a circumstance where I used that non potable water at the dump station for anything else than to rinse the sewer hose after a dump. They usually have no screw threads on those hoses to prevent folks from contaminating their water supplies or city water hoses.