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Old 01-25-2006, 11:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmesDean
Is this worthy of filing a complaint with Airstream?
I wouldn't hesitate.

Jack
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:13 PM   #16
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hi jack, jmesdean and others....

good to read the factory cleared this up. again fixing this may be beyond your dealers skill. it will require removing some/part of the belly pan, tank shields and plumbing.......and they may not have done this before.....proceed with caution.

jack....that length of hose was to make connecting shore water to the coach easier and provide a link besides the usual water hose....if you've ever run your water hose up into the compartment, connnected and then closed the door.....well some water hoses are too large to close the door once connected.

it's interesting thay you were able to connect that short piece as you did. that isn't what it's intended for but how creative. my major concern with hooking the fresh water system directly to the black flush is the potential for ANY back flow or contamination of the freshwater system...i know there is a check valve but if it fails your only clue will be after the system is contaminated with e. coli, coliforms, and other bowel critters.......UCK!!!!! and i'm sure that check value setup isn't approved for direct connection to the fresh water system....

i have and use a short piece of hose that is black/green in color. used only for the black flush system and stored away from my fresh water hoses/fixtures......i really don't want the risk that flushing the black tank could lead to contamination of any part of the fresh water system.....

connecting as you do would lower the pressure into the flush system factory boys told me that wasn't needed.

the black water flush system is supposed to tolerate normal city water pressures, i think it's larger diameter piping, and does not have a pressure regulator in line.....think about it......it's the water pressure that swirls around in the tank bottom to loosen crud....it supposed to be higher pressure. for the same reason i would not put a screen in line except at the other end.....right at the water outlet.

the black tank fills very quickly using the flush....i can ususally flush it 3 times in about 15 minutes....before it stopped working. my toilet was replaced and my tank monitors and some line so, i think they must have
unhooked or blocked my flush at the service center....

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:14 PM   #17
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Jack.

Unless I'm mis-reading your post, I think the Black tank flush has it's own regulator. The city inlet also has it's own regulator. I have in my three-ring binder of all things Airstream and the schematic for the black tank flush and I believe it is totally independent from the regular city inlet. In other words, the water going through the BTF is not circulating the entire plumbing system, and vice versa. I can check though.

Regarding a fresh water tank flush, I'd just be careful NOT to use the same water hydrant used to flush the BT. There are warning signs at most dump stations I've paid homage stating that the water is not potable.

Jonathan
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Old 01-25-2006, 01:15 PM   #18
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If not a pressure regulator, I believe there may be some kind of check valve. The reason I say this is I have noticed when I flushed at campgrounds with higher than average water pressure, the sounds coming from the tank was louder and it took less time to flush.

However, when I was winterizing, after I blew out the line with compressed air, I thought it would a good thing to pour some anti-freeze into the flusher line via a short hose and funnel. Although I was relying solely on gravity to feed the pink stuff into the line, it would not accept any anti-freeze into the line.

I belive there may be some issues with my tank flusher as well. It sounded different the last time I used it, so I opened the toilet hatch and looked into the tank with a flashlight (carefully!) while flushing it. There was only a steady stream of water shooting past the opening instead of the swirling action it was supposed to be doing. I may try flushing with higher water pressure before putting it on my growing list of repairs for when we make the trip to Jackson Center.
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Old 01-25-2006, 02:32 PM   #19
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Interesting chain of events after you told them about what Airstream said.

If it were my coach, I really and truely would be looking for another place for service (and any future purchases). They have had your coach for 4 weeks now and say it's not covered under warranty? I must be missing something.

Sorry, but your dealer sounds like my first dealer I bought from. I'd run, not walk. You really want them to tear into this thing given your overall interactions with them? I think IMHO that there is slightly over a 50% chance in the end you'll most likely have more problems as a result of the repair than it may be worth or you're gonna have to thump some skulls just to get it done.

...and when it's all over I would let Airstream know about your overall interactions with them, be it in the form of a phone call, letter or formal complaint. This doesn't sound like a good dealer to me.
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Old 01-25-2006, 03:20 PM   #20
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2air,

I know what you are saying about the contamination issue, but the corollary is that if I'm using the city water faucet that is provided at my campsite, I could potentially contaminate the city water supply also couldn't I? Sort of spooky then in the thought pattern, that using the black water flush inlet can potentially contaminate your fresh water source, be it the trailer or the city water outlet for your campsite.

Regarding the short hose, I see what you are saying there. I bought an "L" adapter that I always connect to the city water hose. Then I connect the adapter to the city water inlet on the trailer. This always allows clearance for the cover to close. The "L" adapters are made by Camco and you will usually find them at Walmart.

One last question 2air, you say that you flush with the black water drain valve closed? I thought the instructions warn you to be sure to leave it open when you actively are rinsing the tank via that inlet.

Jonathan, yes the black water inlet is independent of the trailer water system. In my case I just used an existing water outlet that is on my trailer and near the black water inlet as the means to provide water to the black water inlet. I have a short hose supplied by Airstream which is long enough to join the outlet and the inlet together and in essence water from my water system can feed the black water inlet.

I've never been in a circumstance where I used that non potable water at the dump station for anything else than to rinse the sewer hose after a dump. They usually have no screw threads on those hoses to prevent folks from contaminating their water supplies or city water hoses.
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Old 01-25-2006, 03:46 PM   #21
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Bwf

I used the BWF a couple a days ago & topped the tank off a little to much, causing some water to spillout the check valve. Today I again used it & noticed a different "tone" with the water entering the tank. I checked the line location & on our unit "04 Safari" it enters behind or bath counter & goes thru a check valve & then to the tank. The line is the same size & color as the cold water. I could find no filters, etc. I also took the check valve off & it appeared o.k. The tank seems to fill the same, but the water just doesn't sound the right. I couldn't really see any swerling (sp) action as the water entered the tank. I'm hoping I didn't plug any jets.
Best,
Al
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:08 PM   #22
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No Fuss Flush devices

JmesDean and other friends following this thread....

I purchased two No Fuss Flush devices, intending to install one in the new black and the other in the new gray.

Is it useful for the gray or is this overkill?

Does a new Airstream have the device only on the black?? If so, that may tell me something.

They don't cost very much but they will entail cutting an opening in the body.

Sergei
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:45 PM   #23
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sergei

it's only on the black tank.

i don't think the flush would be very useful on the gray or fresh tanks and having one more hole/pipe/fittings would just mean another set of leaks waiting to happen. we all can get pretty anal about our tanks....but i think using a little enzyme in the gray tank occasionally and not putting food or grease in it, is enough.

jack

per the owners manual.......

"......to use, hook up a hose and turn on full force. within the tank a spray head with a multiple holed head will spray the interior surface of the tank..........the gate valve should be closed for the first couple of minutes, and then opened to let the water out in a rush. repeat as needed."

so i leave the gate closed and let 'er flow full force. then i go inside, prop the pedal down with the hole open, take a look with a flash light, and watch the water level climb. after about 4-5 minutes the tank looks to be filling well and i open the gate; empty and repeat.

since the top side is open, i can see when the tanks is visibly clear....usually 2-3 cycles. i can also see how much water flow/swirl is happening at first. the tank can fill pretty quickly but it's wide and shallow so just an inch or 2 is a lot of water.

traveling solo, i sometimes goes weeks without needing to empty the black tank. so when i do flush it i like to fill/flush completely, but not wanting to build air pressure in the tank and lines...this is my approach.

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Old 01-25-2006, 06:41 PM   #24
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That's interesting cause I have a silver backed sticker that is affixed below the connection inlet that warns that the drain valve should be in the open position when using the flushing system. Do you have this sticker on yours?

I'll have to check my manual and see if it contradicts the sticker.

Jack
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Old 01-25-2006, 07:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I'll have to check my manual and see if it contradicts the sticker. Jack
jack

i think what really matters is whether the system is open somewhere to avoid air/water pressure build up, or pushing stuff up the vent pipe!!!!

i don't recall that sticker but it may be there....
i'll look in a few days.....but i don't always trust the stickers either.......

photo below is the one applied to my marinco power plug streetside....and i don't have a 2 a/c 50 amp set up....

one campground tried to up my charges when the camp guy inspected my site.... he said i was using 50 amps but only paying for 30. it took a while to convice him the plug/cord were actually 30....and the sticker was wrong.

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:58 PM   #26
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flushing and dumping

2air:

Thanks for the info.

I will reconsider whether I want to install the flush on the grey. Your point about more spots to leak well made. There will also be one less installation in the body shell.

I did notice that there was a funky smell to the old grey that we removed. After 30 years it had probably permeated the polyethylene. Eventually, that permeates the trailer.

Not having food in the grey isnít easy since the kitchen drains there.

I agree we do get pretty anal about our tanks. On the other hand, the commonly used RV system is pretty much the equivalent of what we all had behind grandmaís farmhouse.

Waste dumping certainly hasnít kept up with other technology advances in trailers over the years.

Iím installing the Sani-Con Waste Management System. This has the ability to back flush the black tank with water from the grey tank.

Iíve also ordered the Micro Pulse Tank Monitor used in new Airstreams.

Sergei
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
That's interesting cause I have a silver backed sticker that is affixed below the connection inlet that warns that the drain valve should be in the open position when using the flushing system. Do you have this sticker on yours? Jack
hi jack and others

looked for the sticker today......didn't see one. is this where yours is located?

for those keepin' score....clicky on pic for bigger/better view.

center is bwf,
to the left is fresh water outlet/black handle/knob and brass backflow valve,
and far left is freshwater inlet with supplied section of hose.

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-03-2006, 10:40 PM   #28
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Yep, mine is located just above the inlet.

Jack
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