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Old 11-27-2005, 04:30 AM   #15
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Sergei,
If you want to see a C4 toilet head to a Fleetwood dealer they use them in all their highwall popup units. Another interesting beast but I don't want one, is the recirculating toilet... they used them in TrailManors.

Aaron
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Old 11-27-2005, 07:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoonc
. Another interesting beast but I don't want one, is the recirculating toilet...
Aaron
I don't think I WANT to know what they recirculate.
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Old 11-27-2005, 10:14 AM   #17
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Brits, Europeans....

Brits, Europeans please chime in on this subject. You have information you can share with us.

Thanks.

Sergei
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Old 11-27-2005, 12:10 PM   #18
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Another 24' Argosy -- leaving original

Hello Sergei -- It looks like the project is coming along. You say the belly pan is all removed? That gives you a better idea of spaces and routing of heat ducts and drain pipes.

I very much appreciate a grey tank the same size as the freshwater tank in my Safari. Most of the water goes to the grey it seems. On the Safari the black tank is only 1/4 full by the time my grey tank is full. This gives support to the idea voiced in this and your 'Contemporizing 1976 Argosy' thread about the 12 gal. black capacity being satisfactory. I really don't see a gain thru the cassete system. I'm usually wanting to tow the Safari to the campground dump station when the grey tank is full anyway.

Let me think aloud on your black tank relocation. It really doesn't intrude on the human space in the bathroom (being under the stool and cabinet). With the black tank out you conceivably gain toe space around the stool, and you would gain only small capacity increase in under-sink storage. I might think this part of the project is less important than increasing your grey tank capacity.

You have seen how the curbside and streetside lengthwise L-shaped pieces of steel are welded to the aft frame. To these are welded the angle supports for the grey tank. It shouldn't be too difficult to come up with something similar if you wish to relocate the grey tank.

We use the Safari shower only occasionally, preferring to not fill up the grey tank. We use campground showers most of the time. We tend to be fairly mobile, changing our scenery and moving on every few days.

Unless you must have the black tank under the floor it does make some sense to keep the current grey where it is (and a 2nd grey added to handle kitchen discharge -- follows the KISS rule best). If you do place the black under the floor, putting the black where the grey is makes the most sense to me. Then you'd only need to find location for a grey tank somewhat equal to your 30 gal freshwater tank. Routing the bathroom grey water becomes the problem to solve -- gravity is better than machinery... You know & I know that insulating and ducting heat to the grey tank will provide only a small amount of protection -- but we'll all get caught by a cold snap if traveling in mountains or late fall, so would be useful to have for traveling with the furnace on if we have to.

I like the idea of boondocking but have done little so far. We've most frequently used state park campgrounds with dump stations and have not had to travel with black & grey tanks full. You want to minimize subjecting the frame to the stresses of full tanks and should seek out the closest dump station anyway. If you can do this, location of the tanks is less important. I very much do like the move in new trailers to put tanks closer to the axles. Let me know if you want some pictures of the drain setup on my Safari. but I won't take off belly wrap to show more! A new trailer must have its modesty!

Picture is a view of grey tank front from right behind curbside wheels
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:13 PM   #19
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Canoe Stream Bob:

Yes the pan has been removed and all the metal understructure sand blasted, cleaned, primed and painted.

There’s a photo at the end of my last post to the main thread on this remodel.

Now we are ready to re-plumb.

We can put the black back were it was but that’s an option I don’t like for three reasons:

A newer ceramic toilet doesn’t fit the space. I’ll have to use one of those squat, cheaper looking plastic ones.

I do find the lack of “toe space” a problem at my age. Surprised you don’t. Maybe your personal plumbing is aging better than mine is.

Finally, it’s a design question. I don’t like the toilet perched up on a shelf. The tiny room will appear to be larger if it has a flat floor and good, clean lines.

See the attached photo that I took in the new Winnebago VIEW motorhome built on the Dodge Mercedes-Benz Sprinter truck.

The rear bath is about the size of our Argosy’ but it seems much bigger.

Also, as I told Terry, I will have to run the waste drain from a new grey back to a common dump valve shared with any kind of rear mounted black tank as well.

I might be able to remount the existing black in approximately the same space as now but under the floor. The difficulty here will be that the present tank has a kind of snout or slide at the bottom which terminates at the 3” outlet. The tank plus protrusion may be too low for clearance if lowered another 5 to 6 inches.

People travel and trailer differently and I may not fit the picture of either the park person or the boondocker. My set up, car atop a flat bed truck pulling the trailer, makes the travel mode more like that of a bus with toad but perhaps more flexible.

I may stop at a public or private park from time to time but I also want to be able to stay behind a red barn on somebody’s farm.

Having gone this far to remodel the trailer, I want to consider ALL the possibilities.

Thanks for all the input. I appreciate it.

We will probably decide what we want to do next week.

I’ll let the forum know.


Sergei
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:32 PM   #20
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frame painted ready for new tanks


rear bath Winnebago View
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Old 12-01-2005, 07:20 PM   #21
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Rivet And you know what....?

This works:
Quote:
A newer ceramic toilet doesn’t fit the space. I’ll have to use one of those squat, cheaper looking plastic ones.

I do find the lack of “toe space” a problem at my age. Surprised you don’t. Maybe your personal plumbing is aging better than mine is.

Finally, it’s a design question. I don’t like the toilet perched up on a shelf. The tiny room will appear to be larger if it has a flat floor and good, clean lines.
This is a very well thought out plan. We'll be very interested in seeing it come together!
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Old 12-22-2005, 12:20 AM   #22
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Wink Lynn Porter

I have a 1976 Argosy 24' Trailer. It is currently at the shop getting new tires and an inspection. I plan to update the interior and freshen up the exterior. We bought the trailer to use and hopefully it will be functional with little updateing. Any advice on thing that must be upddated would be appreciated.
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRPorter
I have a 1976 Argosy 24' Trailer. It is currently at the shop getting new tires and an inspection. I plan to update the interior and freshen up the exterior. We bought the trailer to use and hopefully it will be functional with little updateing. Any advice on thing that must be upddated would be appreciated.
Very Nice, Welcome to the Forum, I have a '76 Argosy 24 that we are working on. Check ot what I have done to date here.

http://www.balrgn.com/Argosy/Argosy.htm

Good luck with your project, hope you can post some pics of your progress.
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Old 12-22-2005, 07:16 AM   #24
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hello all, am anxiously awaiting the results of this topic, for the application to my new to me Argosy. Andre,, great job,,,. cannot wait to get started with mine,,, donna,, dieterdog
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Old 12-22-2005, 07:27 AM   #25
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I've said this before

While my bathroom was out of commision, I used a porta-potti.
It was much more conveniant than my present built in system.
So the cassette system sounds great, except I wouldn't
want to cut a door in my trailer.
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:02 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandolindave
While my bathroom was out of commision, I used a porta-potti.
It was much more conveniant than my present built in system.
So the cassette system sounds great, except I wouldn't
want to cut a door in my trailer.
Dave,
With the cassette toilet it is possible to install them so the tank is removed from an interior cabinet door. One of the popup manufacturers did it this way on a couple of models...Starcraft IIRC. Also you are not limited to the door shown on the website, you could install an Airstream Appropriate Hatch without too much trouble.

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Old 12-22-2005, 10:57 AM   #27
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Friends:

Essentially we've decided to move the current grey forward and install another new grey as well as a new black - three tanks in all.

The cassette toilet has been dropped in favour of a new style ceramic.

Watch these pages later in the day; I'll have time then to describe our findings, opinions, solutions and techniques in more detail.

Lynn, you can go to the main thread on my project to see what we plan to do to my little Argosy.

It's here:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ase-18448.html

Sergei
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Old 12-25-2005, 08:32 PM   #28
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Friends:

’m a couple days late in getting back to the forum. It’s Christmas time.

In the end we dropped the idea of a cassette toilet and came up with an entirely new option for the plumbing.

We’ve moved the existing 12 gallon grey forward about 24” to just rear of the axle.

This allowed a 30” x 30” clear space behind this grey for a new black to be installed BELOW the floor.

We are working with stock polyethylene holding tank sizes from COAST Distributors. I estimate the new black will be about 17 gallons.

The shower and sink will remain drained to the existing grey but we are putting another separate 26 gallon NEW grey between the axles. It will serve the kitchen sink alone.

The new capacities will therefore be about 39 gallons grey and 17 black, a good improvement.

The two grey tanks will each drain separately. Routing the new “between the axles” tank to the existing common drain at the rear would have been difficult if not impossible without a pump and I didn’t want to risk any back-up problems that might occur if the two greys were plumbed together.

The old rear grey and the new black will use the existing dump valve at the rear.

I dropped the cassette idea for the reason that it appears only Thetford has them in North America and they are not consumer friendly. I called both their head office in Ann Arbor, Michigan and their Canadian office in Mississauga. They want to talk to trailer manufacturers, not end-users.

They have no show room and they give out conflicting advice. Their web site says “available for retrofit” but their local distributor said the exact opposite.

I took Aaron’s advice (Wahoonc) and finally saw one at a Fleetwood dealer and found them plastic looking and unattractive.

I think I will get the new CONCERTO toilet by SeaLand.
It’s an expensive but very elegant all ceramic unit with a standard flush handle, like in your home.

Thetford makes a similar model called ARIA but SeaLand are customer friendly. They have already emailed me an owner’s manual and complete schematics for installation.

Happy Holidays.

Sergei
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