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09-09-2008, 06:15 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
1958 22' Flying Cloud
1956 30' Sovereign of the Road
1963 16' Bambi
Southeastern Area
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,116
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1960 Brass Dump Valve ~ Not What I Expected
I've had a series of dump valve issues steming from a prior-to-me reworking of the old Thetford valve to accept Valtera fittings. Last week I decided to pull off the belly and rework things as described on an early VAP episode and RJ Dial's website.
After removing copious amounts of that expanding spray foam stuff I found the awful truth. My cast brass mounting plate appears to be mounted on the INSIDE of the black tank.
Has anyone else found this problem and is there a work-around that doesn't require tearing up my lovely bath and removing my holding tank completely?
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09-09-2008, 07:03 PM
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#2
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Vintage Alum. Enthusiast
1959 24' Tradewind
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: I currently do not own a 2nd Airstream
Posts: 4,360
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Yuk!
I know all too well what you're going through. The black tank I worked on wasn't even mine. It was from a friend's '60 Traveller that he lovingly referred to as Stinky.
If yours is like mine, it unscrews from the black tank but mine was so stuck that I had to cut the brass into pieces to get it out. This I did on my workbench before installation. I hope you have better luck with yours.
Brad
FF
__________________
4CU 2699 / AIR 10 / TAC AZ-1
I'm haunted by aluminum.
Charter Member of the 4 Corners Unit.
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09-09-2008, 07:11 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln
, Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,779
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D,
What is it that you are trying to do? Replace the valve entirely or rebuild it to stop a leak? Looks to me you can rebuild in place - although not a very enjoyable experience to be had.
Are you also trying to replace the downstream piping?
Mike
__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ The family has grown. 2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
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09-09-2008, 07:20 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1958 22' Flying Cloud
1956 30' Sovereign of the Road
1963 16' Bambi
Southeastern Area
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,116
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Brad, there are no screws on the tank underside exterior. I probably should have used a flashlight or snake light to check the tank interior for screws. I was so disgusted I didn't think of that at the time.
Mike, I wanted to pull off the valve entirely and replace with a Valtera set up just like the link shows in my first post. That would include the downstream plumbing with a single Valtera knife valve being all that would hang from the belly pan.
I've done a "temporary" plumbing job (don't ask how or laugh when you see it) that will work through the "Summer Thang", but it's not something I want to live with.
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09-09-2008, 07:33 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln
, Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,779
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I may not be telling you something you do not already know.
From the photo - I see not bolts or studs hanging down through the brass valve body. If you can look down from inside can you see the bolt heads? I know that will be yucky bot may be the only way. Good luck.
The only redeeming quality is the reassembly should be staight forward if you do have through bolts.
I'll look on friday at the rally.
Mike
__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ The family has grown. 2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
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09-09-2008, 07:33 PM
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#6
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Vintage Alum. Enthusiast
1959 24' Tradewind
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: I currently do not own a 2nd Airstream
Posts: 4,360
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No, you misunderstand. The brass piece is screwed into the big hole in the bottom of the tank. It's threaded. The whole thing should unscrew once there's enough clearance and its unhooked from everything.
Don't look to closely in there, you might not like what you see. :-P
Brad
FF
__________________
4CU 2699 / AIR 10 / TAC AZ-1
I'm haunted by aluminum.
Charter Member of the 4 Corners Unit.
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09-09-2008, 07:34 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln
, Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfshr
No, you misunderstand. The brass piece is screwed into the big hole in the bottom of the tank. It's threaded. The whole thing should unscrew once there's enough clearance and its unhooked from everything.
Don't look to closely in there, you might not like what you see. :-P
Brad
FF
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If that's the case then all you need to do is take the valve stem off and get a bigger pipe wrench attached to a big guy.
Too much torque can crack the tank I would guess.
__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ The family has grown. 2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
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09-09-2008, 07:44 PM
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#8
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Our '63 had a similar valve. It turned out the screws were there, but the heads were completely rusted off, and I had to cut them off, and slide the valve down and off them. If you look close, you can see where somebody has put some kind of goo on the bottom of the tank, that will probably be where the screws are.
Once you get the valve off, you can "fix" this by:
Removing the toilet
Placing a 2" Valterra blade valve on the bottome of the tank
Marking the 4 mounting locations for the valve
Drilling 4 holes into the bottom of the tank
Dropping 4 stainless machine screws with a flat washer and a neoprene washer on them through the hole where the toilet goes into the holes
Placing the Valterra valve onto the screws (a helper is a real good idea)
Threading nuts onto the machine screws (don't forget to put the gasket on top of the valve before installing it)
Tightening the nuts evenly
Reinstalling the toilet with a fresh rubber gasket
Mount the Valterra adapter onto the valve
Mount a PVC Tee fitting so the grey water can hook into the dump assembly(2" straight by 1 1/2" side)
Mount a PVC reducer from 2"-3"
Put a 3" piece of PVC onto the reducer
Drill a hole on opposite sides of the pipe for the termination cap
Put a stainless bolt (IIRC, it's something like #6 machine screws that work best)
Install the termination cap.
Piece of cake.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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09-09-2008, 07:54 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1968 28' Ambassador
Cedaredge
, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,542
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Kinda of topic, but when I looked in my black tank it was cleaner looking than the black crap growing on the walls of my fresh tank.
__________________
Jason
May you have at least one sunny day, and a soft chair to sit in..
2008 5.7 L V8 Sequoia
AIR # 31243
WBCCI # 6987
FOUR CORNERS UNIT
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09-09-2008, 08:09 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1958 22' Flying Cloud
1956 30' Sovereign of the Road
1963 16' Bambi
Southeastern Area
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfshr
No, you misunderstand. The brass piece is screwed into the big hole in the bottom of the tank. It's threaded. The whole thing should unscrew once there's enough clearance and its unhooked from everything.
Don't look to closely in there, you might not like what you see. :-P
Brad
FF
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OH! I did misunderstand. Something tells me mine is stuck just as tight as yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clancy_boy
If that's the case then all you need to do is take the valve stem off and get a bigger pipe wrench attached to a big guy.
Too much torque can crack the tank I would guess.
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And that would be my luck should I try too hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
Our '63 had a similar valve. It turned out the screws were there, but the heads were completely rusted off, and I had to cut them off, and slide the valve down and off them. If you look close, you can see where somebody has put some kind of goo on the bottom of the tank, that will probably be where the screws are.
Once you get the valve off, you can "fix" this by:
Removing the toilet
Placing a 2" Valterra blade valve on the bottome of the tank
Marking the 4 mounting locations for the valve
Drilling 4 holes into the bottom of the tank
Dropping 4 stainless machine screws with a flat washer and a neoprene washer on them through the hole where the toilet goes into the holes
Placing the Valterra valve onto the screws (a helper is a real good idea)
Threading nuts onto the machine screws (don't forget to put the gasket on top of the valve before installing it)
Tightening the nuts evenly
Reinstalling the toilet with a fresh rubber gasket
Mount the Valterra adapter onto the valve
Mount a PVC Tee fitting so the grey water can hook into the dump assembly(2" straight by 1 1/2" side)
Mount a PVC reducer from 2"-3"
Put a 3" piece of PVC onto the reducer
Drill a hole on opposite sides of the pipe for the termination cap
Put a stainless bolt (IIRC, it's something like #6 machine screws that work best)
Install the termination cap.
Piece of cake.
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Easy for you to say. But it looks like the beginning of a plan. BTW, I'm glad you taught Marie how to multi-post, 'cause now I know how too.
I thought that stuff on the tank bottom was "goo" also. But it seemed to be a discolored and raised area in the fiberglass. Now that I look at this pic, it does seem there could be an outline of a square cast metal plate embedded in the tank interior, probably with threads to receive the valve like Brad described.
Quote:
Originally Posted by purman
Kinda of topic, but when I looked in my black tank it was cleaner looking than the black crap growing on the walls of my fresh tank.
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Eeeou! Now I don't want to look in either one.
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09-09-2008, 08:25 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY
, / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
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i think you need the glove that mike rowe used on the Dairy Cow Midwife episode!
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
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09-09-2008, 09:24 PM
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#12
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Vintage Alum. Enthusiast
1959 24' Tradewind
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: I currently do not own a 2nd Airstream
Posts: 4,360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richinny
i think you need the glove that mike rowe used on the Dairy Cow Midwife episode!
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No, she'll want a new one. I saw that episode and definately a new one is in order.
Brad
FF
__________________
4CU 2699 / AIR 10 / TAC AZ-1
I'm haunted by aluminum.
Charter Member of the 4 Corners Unit.
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09-09-2008, 09:53 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1958 22' Flying Cloud
1956 30' Sovereign of the Road
1963 16' Bambi
Southeastern Area
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,116
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I missed the episode, but I can imagine
Y'all are too funny.
I made need some of these before it's over.
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