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Old 09-09-2008, 07:15 PM   #1
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1960 Brass Dump Valve ~ Not What I Expected

I've had a series of dump valve issues steming from a prior-to-me reworking of the old Thetford valve to accept Valtera fittings. Last week I decided to pull off the belly and rework things as described on an early VAP episode and RJ Dial's website.

After removing copious amounts of that expanding spray foam stuff I found the awful truth. My cast brass mounting plate appears to be mounted on the INSIDE of the black tank.
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Has anyone else found this problem and is there a work-around that doesn't require tearing up my lovely bath and removing my holding tank completely?
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:03 PM   #2
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Yuk!

I know all too well what you're going through. The black tank I worked on wasn't even mine. It was from a friend's '60 Traveller that he lovingly referred to as Stinky.

If yours is like mine, it unscrews from the black tank but mine was so stuck that I had to cut the brass into pieces to get it out. This I did on my workbench before installation. I hope you have better luck with yours.

Brad
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:11 PM   #3
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D,

What is it that you are trying to do? Replace the valve entirely or rebuild it to stop a leak? Looks to me you can rebuild in place - although not a very enjoyable experience to be had.

Are you also trying to replace the downstream piping?

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Old 09-09-2008, 08:20 PM   #4
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Brad, there are no screws on the tank underside exterior. I probably should have used a flashlight or snake light to check the tank interior for screws. I was so disgusted I didn't think of that at the time.

Mike, I wanted to pull off the valve entirely and replace with a Valtera set up just like the link shows in my first post. That would include the downstream plumbing with a single Valtera knife valve being all that would hang from the belly pan.

I've done a "temporary" plumbing job (don't ask how or laugh when you see it) that will work through the "Summer Thang", but it's not something I want to live with.
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:33 PM   #5
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I may not be telling you something you do not already know.

From the photo - I see not bolts or studs hanging down through the brass valve body. If you can look down from inside can you see the bolt heads? I know that will be yucky bot may be the only way. Good luck.

The only redeeming quality is the reassembly should be staight forward if you do have through bolts.

I'll look on friday at the rally.

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Old 09-09-2008, 08:33 PM   #6
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No, you misunderstand. The brass piece is screwed into the big hole in the bottom of the tank. It's threaded. The whole thing should unscrew once there's enough clearance and its unhooked from everything.

Don't look to closely in there, you might not like what you see. :-P

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Old 09-09-2008, 08:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfshr View Post
No, you misunderstand. The brass piece is screwed into the big hole in the bottom of the tank. It's threaded. The whole thing should unscrew once there's enough clearance and its unhooked from everything.

Don't look to closely in there, you might not like what you see. :-P

Brad
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If that's the case then all you need to do is take the valve stem off and get a bigger pipe wrench attached to a big guy.


Too much torque can crack the tank I would guess.
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:44 PM   #8
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Our '63 had a similar valve. It turned out the screws were there, but the heads were completely rusted off, and I had to cut them off, and slide the valve down and off them. If you look close, you can see where somebody has put some kind of goo on the bottom of the tank, that will probably be where the screws are.
Once you get the valve off, you can "fix" this by:
Removing the toilet
Placing a 2" Valterra blade valve on the bottome of the tank
Marking the 4 mounting locations for the valve
Drilling 4 holes into the bottom of the tank
Dropping 4 stainless machine screws with a flat washer and a neoprene washer on them through the hole where the toilet goes into the holes
Placing the Valterra valve onto the screws (a helper is a real good idea)
Threading nuts onto the machine screws (don't forget to put the gasket on top of the valve before installing it)
Tightening the nuts evenly
Reinstalling the toilet with a fresh rubber gasket
Mount the Valterra adapter onto the valve
Mount a PVC Tee fitting so the grey water can hook into the dump assembly(2" straight by 1 1/2" side)
Mount a PVC reducer from 2"-3"
Put a 3" piece of PVC onto the reducer
Drill a hole on opposite sides of the pipe for the termination cap
Put a stainless bolt (IIRC, it's something like #6 machine screws that work best)
Install the termination cap.


Piece of cake.
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:54 PM   #9
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Kinda of topic, but when I looked in my black tank it was cleaner looking than the black crap growing on the walls of my fresh tank.
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfshr View Post
No, you misunderstand. The brass piece is screwed into the big hole in the bottom of the tank. It's threaded. The whole thing should unscrew once there's enough clearance and its unhooked from everything.

Don't look to closely in there, you might not like what you see. :-P

Brad
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OH! I did misunderstand. Something tells me mine is stuck just as tight as yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clancy_boy View Post
If that's the case then all you need to do is take the valve stem off and get a bigger pipe wrench attached to a big guy.


Too much torque can crack the tank I would guess.
And that would be my luck should I try too hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63 View Post
Our '63 had a similar valve. It turned out the screws were there, but the heads were completely rusted off, and I had to cut them off, and slide the valve down and off them. If you look close, you can see where somebody has put some kind of goo on the bottom of the tank, that will probably be where the screws are.
Once you get the valve off, you can "fix" this by:
Removing the toilet
Placing a 2" Valterra blade valve on the bottome of the tank
Marking the 4 mounting locations for the valve
Drilling 4 holes into the bottom of the tank
Dropping 4 stainless machine screws with a flat washer and a neoprene washer on them through the hole where the toilet goes into the holes
Placing the Valterra valve onto the screws (a helper is a real good idea)
Threading nuts onto the machine screws (don't forget to put the gasket on top of the valve before installing it)
Tightening the nuts evenly
Reinstalling the toilet with a fresh rubber gasket
Mount the Valterra adapter onto the valve
Mount a PVC Tee fitting so the grey water can hook into the dump assembly(2" straight by 1 1/2" side)
Mount a PVC reducer from 2"-3"
Put a 3" piece of PVC onto the reducer
Drill a hole on opposite sides of the pipe for the termination cap
Put a stainless bolt (IIRC, it's something like #6 machine screws that work best)
Install the termination cap.


Piece of cake.
Easy for you to say. But it looks like the beginning of a plan. BTW, I'm glad you taught Marie how to multi-post, 'cause now I know how too.

I thought that stuff on the tank bottom was "goo" also. But it seemed to be a discolored and raised area in the fiberglass. Now that I look at this pic, it does seem there could be an outline of a square cast metal plate embedded in the tank interior, probably with threads to receive the valve like Brad described.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by purman View Post
Kinda of topic, but when I looked in my black tank it was cleaner looking than the black crap growing on the walls of my fresh tank.
Eeeou! Now I don't want to look in either one.
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:25 PM   #11
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i think you need the glove that mike rowe used on the Dairy Cow Midwife episode!
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:24 PM   #12
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i think you need the glove that mike rowe used on the Dairy Cow Midwife episode!
No, she'll want a new one. I saw that episode and definately a new one is in order.

Brad
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:53 PM   #13
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I missed the episode, but I can imagine

Y'all are too funny.

I made need some of these before it's over.

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