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03-02-2003, 01:12 PM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
1952 25' Cruiser
Dummerston
, Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 169
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1952 - no holding tanks?
We finally have possession of our 1952 Cruiser (24'). The seller tells us there are no holding tanks - black, grey, or white. The HW heater holds a few gallons. The seller said his family always used the trailer at campgrounds with sewer and water hook-ups. We plan on doing more dry camping, but are unclear about how to handle black water and store fresh water. Can anyone tell us what others in this situation have done? We searched the forums and found threads about grey water tanks which have been helpful. We've since bought a portable 22 gal. grey water tank. But we need more info., and we welcome your suggestions as well as any references to other sources of information about this.
Doug
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03-03-2003, 07:58 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1959 22' Caravanner
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,197
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Ok since nobody else has any ideas on how to help you I will give it a shot.
Ar you positive it has no black water tank?
In the 50's that tank was above the floor and if the head is stitting on a raised section of floor then it should be sitting on the black water tank. The tank was not visiable from under the camper. According to the documentation on my 59 that I have one of Airstreams designe features was that the drain on the black water tank was dirrectly below the head and if the cap was off and valve was open you could see the ground through the head. From what I have read the black water tank was not fitted to the underside of the trailer till the 60's. Look up under the camper and see if you have a valve on the swer drain. Close the valve and start pouring water into the comode and see how long till it does not drain when you flush. I'm betting it will take about 12-15 gallons. No harm in doing this as long as you don't ovefill the bowl. The valve should be before the shower drain but keep an eye that no water is backing up into the shower.
I have been looking at adding a gray water tank to our 59 as well. Levon's pictures were helpfull. Most RV places like Inland have some tanks available that may work. They are flat tanks about 4-6 inches tall and you may find one that will fit between the frame rails. Then it's just a matter of routing the sink and bath drains to it.
__________________
1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
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03-04-2003, 01:53 PM
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#3
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3 Rivet Member
1952 25' Cruiser
Dummerston
, Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 169
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Thanks for the reply, Toaster.
Yes, the head is directly over the drain and you can see through, but there is no raised section under the head. We'll try your suggestion of pouring water in and see what happens! I hope in fact there is a black water tank, but I'm not so sure...
Doug
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03-04-2003, 02:12 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1959 22' Caravanner
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,197
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I went over and looked at www.vintageairstream.com and looked in their archives. It appears all the Cruisers I looked at looked like park models. No fill for water tanks were visable and residential looking toilets. They also do not have a 52 model in the archives. Might want to go over there and check with the webmaster. He might know a little about the cruiser line and I bet he would love some pictures of your 52 for the archives.
Might want to look at a couple posts we have running . A few people are wanting to add gray water tanks. Adding a black water would be pretty close to the same deal except you would need to swtich to a RV/Marine toilet and your black water tank would have to be directly below the head. Fresh water would not be too difficult. You going to have to open the bottom of the trailer for Black and if your going to do that might as well add a gray. Proably be just as eays to mount a flat fresh water tank under the camper as it would be to modify the interrior to add one the way Airstream would have done it at the factory.
From what I have read there is not a replacement tank that would fit in place of the original freash water tanks A/S used in that time period. Mounting all the tanks under the camper will also keep the CG low and if you put them near the axle then your wieght distribution should not be effected much.
__________________
1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
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03-08-2003, 10:25 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1997 34' Limited
Young Harris
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 981
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1961 Trade Wind: Black, No Grey
Howdy. I just got my 1961 24' Trade Wind home Thursday, and am starting to line up the projects.
I know it has a black water tank under the toilet in the frame rails, but no grey water tank. Here is what mine looks like underneath. I _assume_ that there used to be a sheet-aluminum bottom and the PO tore up the bottom when he redid the plumbing 10 years ago.
The black water tank has a valve, while the grey water drain lines join the pipe lower than the valve, and are no controlled by any valve. Hmmm.... is that right? If I am not hooked up (with a slinky to a drain), the grey water will merely run out of the pipe? The sink drains tie in the far side of the picture, and the shower drain is to the right.
What if I am not at a campground with a drain?
__________________
Phil and/or Sue w/ Cheryl & Annie and Stuart
(Buffett RIP 9/15/08, Gus RIP 12/22/15)(Roger RIP 12/30/20, Penny RIP 6/14/21)
1997 34' Excella WBCCI 5936
'09 Dodge Cummins Ram 3500 Crew 4x4 auto
AIR 1753
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03-09-2003, 07:59 AM
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#6
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Moderator Emeritus
1972 31' Sovereign
High Springs
, Florida
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,311
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Phil/Sue, at this point your main option would be a "Blue Tank" available at any RV supply/dealership. Blue tanks are portable tanks, some with wheels and hitches that allow towing with the ball hitch on your tow vehicle. (25 gallons of waste water is HEAVY!) There are very few places, if any, that allow grey water discharge directly to ground. If you are at such a place, it is adviseable to use a sewer to garden hose adaptor, so the fact you are discharging to ground will be less visable than if you have a 3 inch sewer hose lying on the ground!
__________________
ARS WA8ZYT
2003 GMC 2500HD 4X4 D/A Ext. Cab
Propane Powered Honda EU2000i
Lots of Hot Sauce!
Air # 283
WBCCI 1350
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03-09-2003, 08:00 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1959 22' Caravanner
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,197
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Well in 61 it was acceptable to just let the gray water run. They would have had a cap with a fitting for a garden hose so you could ru it away from the camp site. Now that's not acceptable because the soaps. The easy fix is to buy a blue tank and use it to store the gray water. It's a flat tank on wheels that you would just set becide the camper. It's the easy fix till you try to drag it to the dump station.
To plumb in a gray tank the easy thing is just plug the gray water lines to that drain and route them to a gray tank in a different location. Then add a second valve and drain for the gray water.
__________________
1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
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03-09-2003, 10:08 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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Here's a link to the "Blue Bellies" at Camping World. They can offentimies be found elsewhere for less $$$.
Keep in mind, as Pick mentioned, that bigger isn't always better. You may have to lift it to empty it into a toilet or sink. We use the 10 gallon size & it works out just fine...
Now your black water is another story....hmmm, sorry, I'm of no help there.
Shari
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03-09-2003, 02:42 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1997 34' Limited
Young Harris
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 981
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Thanks for Thoughts on Grey Water retention
Hey. all. Thanks for your thoughts and link. I will have to look toward purchasing one of these. In the Camping Workd picture, I don't know which one is the 10 gallon, but will check it out.
Regarding adding a small grey water tank, I don't know how I would get it low enough to drain the shower into it. The sinks are merely a small problem, since the drains are high enough.
I still don't know whether there is any hope for the existing black water valve. Temperature fell yesterday, and it's about 24 degrees here now, and I really didn't want to lay on the ground to look at it. Maybe later this week!
__________________
Phil and/or Sue w/ Cheryl & Annie and Stuart
(Buffett RIP 9/15/08, Gus RIP 12/22/15)(Roger RIP 12/30/20, Penny RIP 6/14/21)
1997 34' Excella WBCCI 5936
'09 Dodge Cummins Ram 3500 Crew 4x4 auto
AIR 1753
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03-09-2003, 03:40 PM
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#10
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
.
, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Hey Phil/Sue.
Got your pictures yesterday. Nice! It is a bit chilly to be rolling around the ground right now, but they say next week it should start to warm up a bit.
Regards,
Eric
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03-09-2003, 04:48 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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Quote:
In the Camping Workd picture, I don't know which one is the 10 gallon, but will check it out.
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It's the smallest one on wheels. Keep in mind, it's just the two of us in a 19-footer. We choose the 10-gallon one so I could manage it by myself too, I go "girl-camping" occaisionally.
Shari
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03-09-2003, 05:45 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1959 22' Caravanner
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,197
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Pill/Sue:
I hate to tell you this but I see a structural problem on your camper. Whatever hack installed that drain pipe to the right cut a slot through the crossmember. The poper way to have done that would have been a hole just large enough for the pipe to pass through but they have cut over half that C-Channel away. It would not be a hard repair but it needs to be done. A peice of 2x2 angle iron about 18 inches long welded in there would do the trick.
__________________
1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
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03-09-2003, 07:50 PM
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#13
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
.
, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Great spot Toaster.... I totally missed that one.
Good eye.
Eric
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03-09-2003, 08:28 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1997 34' Limited
Young Harris
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 981
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Cross Member Hacked Out
Howdy. Thanks for the heads-up. You know, I saw that but figured it was factory. I can see where the cross-member should be reinforced, but I am afraid that I may have more work needed on the plumbing.
Also, can anyone tell me whether this area under the trailer is supposed to be open. That is, should this be insulated and have a belly pan? If so, why would it be left uncovered/open? Lazy? Hmmm...
Here is another view...
__________________
Phil and/or Sue w/ Cheryl & Annie and Stuart
(Buffett RIP 9/15/08, Gus RIP 12/22/15)(Roger RIP 12/30/20, Penny RIP 6/14/21)
1997 34' Excella WBCCI 5936
'09 Dodge Cummins Ram 3500 Crew 4x4 auto
AIR 1753
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03-09-2003, 08:32 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1997 34' Limited
Young Harris
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 981
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Another Picture of Black Water Valve
Ok, so I didn't get the picture attached...
Here it is...
__________________
Phil and/or Sue w/ Cheryl & Annie and Stuart
(Buffett RIP 9/15/08, Gus RIP 12/22/15)(Roger RIP 12/30/20, Penny RIP 6/14/21)
1997 34' Excella WBCCI 5936
'09 Dodge Cummins Ram 3500 Crew 4x4 auto
AIR 1753
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03-09-2003, 09:12 PM
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#16
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
.
, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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I can't believe that A/S built it that way, so I would have to say that it looks like a custom job and that the lower panel was not replaced when cut out.
I thought that the bottom was insulated. From the picture, I see traces of insulation present.
Is the whole belly open?
Eric
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03-09-2003, 09:25 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1997 34' Limited
Young Harris
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 981
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Belly Open? No, except there...
Howdy, Eric. Nope. The belly is not open anywhere else. And there is insulation poked into some of the areas under there, but I'm going to wait for warmer weather to get into it.
The more I think about it, the more I think it should be insulated and closed up, especially in this part of the country. So, when I get into the plumbing and finish up, I'll see what I can do to close it up.
I guess a blue tank for grey water would let me camp without a connected slinky/drain. Cool.
__________________
Phil and/or Sue w/ Cheryl & Annie and Stuart
(Buffett RIP 9/15/08, Gus RIP 12/22/15)(Roger RIP 12/30/20, Penny RIP 6/14/21)
1997 34' Excella WBCCI 5936
'09 Dodge Cummins Ram 3500 Crew 4x4 auto
AIR 1753
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03-09-2003, 09:34 PM
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#18
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
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, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Hey Phil.
This Saturday it's suppose to be about 62*. I may do a few outdoor activities myself! Hell, at that temp, compared to what it's been, I may even take a dip in Lake Michigan!
Since this is on the bottom, I don't think you'd need more than R-11 or... R-19--if you plan on camping during the winter months. Menard's has a sale on faced and unfaced insulation right now too. As for closing it up, if for no other reason, it will keep the "critters" out of there.
Eric
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03-10-2003, 07:32 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1959 22' Caravanner
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,197
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Yep seal it up. I bet most airstreams have been opend up in a simular way. Our 59 has a access hole with a new panel fit in the same area to access the drains and black water valve.
It looks like somebody recently repair the floor. Just didn't finish the job is all.
I'm about to get into a major floor repair on the 59 and I plan to set up a removable section in tha area for access to the plumbing. I want it extend up to the axle so If I get ambitious I can add in a gray water tank without having to cut the sides loose.
__________________
1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
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03-10-2003, 02:16 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1997 34' Limited
Young Harris
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 981
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Adding Grey Water Tank?
Thanks for the replies. I will be sealing it up, but I am not sure with what just yet!
Regarding the possible addition of a grey water tank, as I mentioned earlier, I would like to myself. Is your shower drain also low in the frame like mine? For mine, I am not sure I could get a tank low enough (would I have to raise the shower base?).
__________________
Phil and/or Sue w/ Cheryl & Annie and Stuart
(Buffett RIP 9/15/08, Gus RIP 12/22/15)(Roger RIP 12/30/20, Penny RIP 6/14/21)
1997 34' Excella WBCCI 5936
'09 Dodge Cummins Ram 3500 Crew 4x4 auto
AIR 1753
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