Water pressure

[mmenchel]

I've figured some things out but not others... my 62 safari fresh water runs on water pressure fron an air fill valve outside over the fresh water tank fill. Inside I have an original water circulating 12v pump. Is the water pressure in the AS dependant on how much air pressure I "pump" into the system w a hand pump or does the circulating pump also create and increase water pressure? Of course this is all when you are not water hooked up
Thanks

[SteveH]

As I remember, those early 60's trailer did indeed have a pressure water system, in that the tank was presurized with air. If you have the "original" pump in your trailer, it should be a small air compressor to put air pressure on the system. However, it very well may have been changed to a demand water pump sometime in it's history.

[mmenchel]

it is an original circulating pumpand it works and does circulate the pressure. When I pump air into the system from my portable air pump hooked up to the airpressure nipple on the outside of the AS how long will it last for(of course depending on useage). How long do I keep the circulating pump on for?
I'm also told that I should hook up a pressure reg valve to about 42lbs between the freshwater hose hookup at a campground and the intake on the trailer. Is that so?

Thanks

[markdoane]

It's not designed to work as both a air pressure tank and a water pump system.

If you have a circulation water pump you should remove the filler cap and find a way to vent the tank.

If you have an air pressure system, you should be able to let the little red air pump pressurize the tank, no need to fill it with a portable air pump unless the original compressor is not operable. The original air compressor had a switch on the wall to turn the compressor on and off.

When turned on, the air compressor should turn on automatically at 20 psi air pressure, and off when the pressure reaches 40 psi.

If you are hooked up to city water, the pressure regulator on the hose hookup should be 42 psi to prevent backflow from your tank into the campground water system. There should also be a backflow preventer to make certain there is no way for water from your tank to make it into the public water supply.

[mmenchel]

Well you have solved am issue I ve been dealing w for quite a while and thats why the circulating pump goes off and then back on after a while. I thought there might have been a short or a fuse problem. Thanks a million.
So not only does the circulating pump move the air around but it "creates" air also and then shuts itself off. So it should create enough air to force the water system to run w/out me putting air into the air nipple on the fill cap? Interesting! Wonder why the nipple in the first place but... I'll get that water pressure regulator at Camping world
This is great ! Thanks!

[putback]

If its usefull many campers back in the day had a special air hose to go from the spare tire to the air valve on the fill head. Yea, sounds weird but back then you checked all fluids ect at every gas up. I have a '64 catilina with that set up, still works!

[mmenchel]

sorry but now I'm back to being a little confused again. So am I pumping air in the fill head or just letting the circulating pump make and circulate the air?

[TG Twinkie]

The pump does not and should not be circulating air. You have a system that has been modified by the looks of it. The original system used compressed air to provide the pressure to move the water throughout the trailer, there was no pump. There might have been a small air compressor that recharged the air in the tank. Are you sure it is a pump and not an air compressor?
Since I haven't seen the system I will make an educated guess. The pump is installed on the discharge side of the tank. It is intended to receive water from the tank by gravity. The pump has a pressure switch that controls the pump.
With water in the tank; you turn the pump on with a switch. If the pump is primed properly and void of air within the pump; it will start and pump water (if it is a good pump). If you don't have a faucet open for the water to run out the pump will run long enough to build pressure in the system. When the pressure switch is satisfied the pump will shut off. If you open a faucet the pressure will drop in the system and the pump will start. Depending on the demand for water and the capacity of the pump (in GPM) the pump may cycle on and off. This is normal.
I suppose there is the possibility that; if the pump is higher than the tank, someone could have used the air charge system to prime the pump. But that doesn't sound like a good way to do it, the pump above the tank I mean.
With the pump sucking water from the tank there has to be a way for air to enter the tank to replace the water. Otherwise you will suck a vacuum on the tank and the pump will not work.
Try this; remove the filler cap from the tank, then start the pump and see if it pumps water, open a faucet.. If not, we will have to go thru the procedure to prime the pump. If it works, fill the tank completely full of water, then put the cap back on. If the cap seals the tank so tight it can't get air, it won't take long before the pump will not work. If that is the case you need a cap that is vented for the system to work properly. This is all on the assumption that you have a pump and not an air compressor.

Pictures would Help.

[mmenchel]

I'll take pics today. I dont know if this is a pump, a circulating pump or a compressor. It sits at floor lrvrl under the galley sink on street side. The water tank is under the back gauch beneath floor level. Funny thing is nothing looks modified in the AS. It's all original factory equipment that works except the refer (thats a whole other story). I'll take pics because all this is life saving info for me
Thanks
Mike

[mmenchel]

Here is 1 pic of the pump

[TG Twinkie]

It looks like an air compressor, not a pump. So you can ignor my long paragraphs on the pump.
Your Question:
How long do I keep the circulating pump on for?
My response:
Like the pump, the compressor will cycle on and off in response to the demand on the system. It should have a differential pressure switch with about a 20# range. For example: The air compressor will run until it builds pressure in the tank, say 50#. It will then shut off and wait for the tank pressure to drop to 30# before restarting the compressor. If your system is without leaks, either air or water, you should be able to leave the switch for the compressor on continuously when you are using water. It may cycle in short bursts, which is not uncommon.
Your question:
it is an original circulating pump and it works and does circulate the pressure.
My response:
Are you not getting water to flow thru the system?
My Question:
Do you get water out of the faucets when you charge the tank with air from the outside?
My question:
Does the air compressor run? When you put the cap on the tank and the tank has water in it. Then start the compressor, will it cause water to run out the faucet?

The amount of time the compressor will run will depend on water useage as well as the level of the water in the tank. The lower the level the more air it takes to build pressure.

YES: When you connect your trailer to city water you should use a pressure regulator rated at 40 PSI. Some city water systems have pressures that exceed 80 PSI. The high pressure may damage the piping in your trailer.

[markdoane]

What you have is a little air compressor. If it works you shouldn't need to add air through the valve above the fresh water fill. The fresh water fill cap needs to be on and the gasket needs to be good to maintain pressure in the system.

The on-off switch for the air compressor is so that you can turn it off at night so it doesn't wake you up.

The little air valve above the water fill is so that you can pressurize the system with a portable air pump, bicycle pump, or gas station air hose in the event that the on-board compressor stops working or if you want to save your battery.

[noreen&sal]

Most gas station compressors will have some nasty old oil and even nastier eater in them. Just MHO> Sal.

[noreen&sal]

I meant water. Gotta go clean my glasses. Sal.

[TG Twinkie]

If you use a compressor other than the one in the trailer to charge the system: it should be an oil free or instrument type compressor. The pancake type compressors you see at Home Depot are oil free. You also need to make sure that the pressure doesn't get too High when using an outside compressor. I would think that the original system has some kind of pressure relief to keep this from happening. The system may have a water pressure regulator as well.

I think we are all a bit confused about what the problem is with your system. Are you not getting water?

[mmenchel]

You guys are great. You have answered all my questions about this circulating pump. It does work. It does circulate the water thru the system. The shower is a little drip but maybe I didnt let the air pressure build up enough. I got it!
I'm buying a water pressure reg tomorrow and I'm going to try it all out.
I'll let you all know but I know, you're all right! This is great!
Ahhhhhhh the little things.... 'Til tomorrow
Thanks a million!

[putback]

The pic of the pump sure does look like an air compressor. If you're going to try to use the air pressure system to flow water at a acceptable rate the system must be well sealed to hold at least 30 lbs psi, and the old air pump must be able to produce 30+psi. You have'nt mentioned a pressure gauge in the system to determin the pressure in the tank. If the "air nipple" on the fill head is like the ones I've seen it accepts a common tire pressure gauge [the best old air systems had a pressure gauge built into the fill cap]. Try this. Add a few gals of water to the tank, seal it up, turn on the air pump, if the pump shuts off check the pressure at the air nipple with a tire gauge. 20+ lbs pressure your good on the tank/pump. If the pump won't shut off within 10ish minits start looking for system leaks of either air or water. If no leaks and good pressure in the tank and the pump continues to run, probably the high pressure limit cut off switch on the air pump is bad. If no leaks and very little pressure in the tank the pump is bad, or possibly the air line between pump & tank is kinked or pluged.. Cold hard fact is the air press system was less than ideal when new. I only kept the one in my Catalina 'cause the rig is 100% original. Otherwise it would be a common on demand water pump, far less hassle.

[mmenchel]

Thanks to all! I'm fully pressurized w no leaks. The circulation pump works fine. Shuts off at 33lbs and then back on some where around 22 or so. Takes a liitle bit longer than 10 mins to work up to 33 but we get there.
Shower is goooooood.

[samb]

Looks like you have it all figured out and it is working to your satisfaction. I have the same air pump in my '61 Safari and I like the pressure system.
Now you might need to do a little maintenance on the compressor if it has not been used or serviced in some time. Don't worry, nothing major or complicated. If you notice from the diagram in Markdoane's post there is a crankcase and oil fill plug. I would advise making sure it has oil before running it any more, and change the oil so you can be sure you are not doing any damage to the compressor. Easy to do. The hardest part may be finding 20 weight oil.
And then enjoy the shower some more.
Sam

[putback]

Allright! Do'nt be to concerned about > 10 mins to pressure up. The lower the water level in the tank the longer it takes that little pump to get the tank up to pressure. By all means take samb's advice. That omission was very foolish of me. Allways check the lube 1st on any machine. I expect my dear old dad to reach up out of the grave tonite and smack me up side the head for that one.