Twinkle's Frozen: Now What?

[SSChanger]

Five days of unprecedented below freezing weather here in North Alabama...Twinkle, our '94 30' Excella, is frozen up.
I poured six gallons of RV antifreeze in the freshwater tank, circulated it, but there must've been enough water in there to allow it to freeze up anyway. The water pump comes on, but very little pink fluid flows.

The hot water tank is OK--still fluid pink stuff.

The Black water tank looks frozen down there.

Brought her home from the storage yard and have two full tanks of propane and the heater working to warm her up--but still no flow of water. The fresh water tank will not drain--frozen up.

Any suggestions? PEX piping, and no obvious breaks. The weather climbs to the 40s next week.

Thanks!

[NCMtnStream]

Brand spanking new 20' Flying Cloud with built in tank heaters AND the unit has been a constant 65-75 degrees. Galley doors open and drawers pulled to allow warm air circulation...guess what....frozen fresh water tank here as well.
My guess is that even with factory installed tank heaters they are still going to freeze up?
It gets better. The dump valves froze in the closed position, not good for either of us since I am full timing and the campground I am in has no facilities during winter.
I took a ceramic heater and applied it to the dump valves with success but they are now frozen in the open position.
I'm sure me telling you this doesn't help much but maybe it will bring you comfort to know there is someone else in the same situation.
I guess this experience is showing me that I can not use this thing in Alaska this spring):

[SSChanger]

Guess the good news is the PEX tubing is not likely to rupture, although I'm not so sure about the fresh water tank.

Sorry to hear about the frozen drain valves and the lack of facilities! You are in one of the most beautiful parts of the nation--We graduated from Mars Hill College just up the road from Waynesville. Still remember it was the coldest we've been in our lives, though, in the mountains of North Carolina.

Agree--Airstreams are not built for Alaska!

[thecatsandi]

Originally Posted by SSChanger

Five days of unprecedented below freezing weather here in North Alabama...Twinkle, our '94 30' Excella, is frozen up.
I poured six gallons of RV antifreeze in the freshwater tank, circulated it, but there must've been enough water in there to allow it to freeze up anyway. The water pump comes on, but very little pink fluid flows.

The hot water tank is OK--still fluid pink stuff.

The Black water tank looks frozen down there.

Brought her home from the storage yard and have two full tanks of propane and the heater working to warm her up--but still no flow of water. The fresh water tank will not drain--frozen up.

Any suggestions? PEX piping, and no obvious breaks. The weather climbs to the 40s next week.

Thanks!

How much water was in the tank when you put her in storage? Frozen drain is not unusual. Don't force it. It could break off and take part of the tank with it. Radiant heat is best. Black can freeze. Grey can freeze. Tank heaters will only work if the area is realitively air tight. The tank areas are not. Tank heaters will make short order of your batteries if not hooked up to shore power.

[Elvie]

I kinda remember something about not putting the pink antifreeze into the water heater. I can't remember if anyone told me why not.

Just a thought, not intended to add to your troubles, I'd guess it would flush out well enough.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Elvie

I kinda remember something about not putting the pink antifreeze into the water heater. I can't remember if anyone told me why not.

Just a thought, not intended to add to your troubles, I'd guess it would flush out well enough.

It will flush out fine. Typically you don't put antifreeze into the hot water heater if you have bypass valves. It's more of a matter to save the expense of the antifreeze filling the tank. It won't cause any harm.

Jack

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by SSChanger

Guess the good news is the PEX tubing is not likely to rupture, although I'm not so sure about the fresh water tank.

The tubing itself should be fine. The fittings can be damaged by freezing, so do check for leaks.

It would be unusual for the freshwater tank itself to be damaged by freezing though again the fittings are the most vulnerable.

[SteveH]

I know this is of no use to you now, but maybe in the future....what I've been doing with success is drain all tanks, drain the lines, blow out all the lines with air pressure, and put anti freeze in the drain "P" traps. Then I hook up AC power and run a small electric heater in the trailer.

Yesterday morning it was 13 degrees here, and this morning it is 16. Coldest I ever remember it being here. Must be that pesky global warming.

[tkasten]

You might try another few gals of AF. When I winterized my baby I put in 6 gal at first and my pump would not circulate. I then added 3 more gals and it did work fine. I learned on this forum that the water heater filled up with 6 gals alone so it does take more to protect everything. I figure $27 (9 gal. @ $3.00 per) is cheap protection.......Tim

[SSChanger]

Great information from everyone--many thanks! We absolutely love our "Twinkle". We took it to the top of Monte Sano here in Huntsville for Christmas lunch, and it was magical!

Glad to learn that there is unlikely to be any permanent or costly damage from these extremely cold successive temperature days. Kind of surprized that the pink stuff will freeze if diluted even just a bit, but that's the learning I'm getting from this.

Thanks for the encouraging words.

"We are too soon old, and too late smart" (Dutch proverb).

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by SteveH

I know this is of no use to you now, but maybe in the future....what I've been doing with success is drain all tanks, drain the lines, blow out all the lines with air pressure, and put anti freeze in the drain "P" traps. Then I hook up AC power and run a small electric heater in the trailer.

Yesterday morning it was 13 degrees here, and this morning it is 16. Coldest I ever remember it being here. Must be that pesky global warming.

For your location, yep..best advice. If in doubt, Winterize BSTS.

[Silverhobby]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

Typically you don't put antifreeze into the water heater if you have bypass valves. It's more of a matter to save the expense of the antifreeze filling the tank. It won't cause any harm. Jack

Non toxic antifreeze is detrimental to the anode rod on the water heater.

[SSChanger]

I'm not sure about the bypass valves--there is a valve that allows you to mix in cold with the hot water--Is that the bypass valve?

[azflycaster]

A water heater bypass removes the water heater from the water system by letting the water flow past it instead of through it. If the water heater is bypassed it can be drained and the rest of the system can be winterized. This will save you 6 or more gallons of antifreeze.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Silverhobby

Non toxic antifreeze is detrimental to the anode rod on the water heater.

This is correct if you have Suburban water heater. Atwood heaters which are on many of the newer Airstreams have no anode. Here's a quote:

Note - Atwood Water Heater Owners: There is a Camco Anode Rod for Atwood Water Heaters available on Amazon.com as well as from several other vendors. This item should not be used in newer Atwood water heaters. After speaking with the Technical Assistance department at Atwood Moblie Products, I was told that: "anode rods should not be used in their newer tanks and their usage will void their (Atwood's) 2 year warranty". The reason for this is because Atwood tank liners have a protective cladding which in itself protects the tank from the accumulation of corrosive materials. The use of an anode rod inside these Atwood water heaters changes the configuration of the tank and will cause additional corrosive materials to accumulate and build up on the bottom of the tank making it difficult to clean and will create more corrosive material inside the tank. Furthermore, if an anode rod is used, it's deterioration inside the tank may well cause this protective cladding to be compromised thus allowing the accumulation of hydrogen sulfide inside the tank producing a rotten egg odor.

[SSChanger]

Thanks, Richard---ours looks like that with a loop in the bottom piping which includes a check valve, as best I can tell. I'm learning a lot from this--thanks for the excellent picture too!

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by NCMtnStream

Brand spanking new 20' Flying Cloud with built in tank heaters AND the unit has been a constant 65-75 degrees. Galley doors open and drawers pulled to allow warm air circulation...guess what....frozen fresh water tank here as well.

I believe there are tank heaters only on the black and grey tanks- not on the fresh water.

[NCMtnStream]

Originally Posted by SSChanger

Guess the good news is the PEX tubing is not likely to rupture, although I'm not so sure about the fresh water tank.

Sorry to hear about the frozen drain valves and the lack of facilities! You are in one of the most beautiful parts of the nation--We graduated from Mars Hill College just up the road from Waynesville. Still remember it was the coldest we've been in our lives, though, in the mountains of North Carolina.

Agree--Airstreams are not built for Alaska!

I was born here in Maggie Valley, though my posting says Waynesville..still have not figured out why. Maybe zip codes? You are right about this being one of the most beautiful parts of the country. I have been around the globe a few times (USAF) and feel this is the best place in the world.
I thawed the dump valves and am using them in the open position since they froze again. Better open than closed.
I am in a bit of a tight spot here since I can't drain the lines to winterize but it looks like we are supposed to hit 40 degrees tomorrow so this will help alleviate some of the problem. Any damage will appear after the thaw I guess.
I have contacted Airstream about the tank heater not doing its JOB and will pass any information I get from them along to everyone here.
My dealer's rv tech told me also that antifreeze in the water heater would cause premature corrosion of the components there and to always use the bypass feature.
Hope this helps...

[richinny]

in my service station days we would push cars with frozen gas lines into the bays at night to thaw. if you can find a place to thaw toastie overnight or overday, it might save you a lot of fussing and cussing too! just cap the black tank before you thaw ;-)

[Ag&Au]

Following this tread has raised a question for me.
What models have tank heaters?
I am 99.9% sure my 31 classic does not. The tanks are enclosed by metal boxes on the bottom and heated by a duct hose from the propane furnace. In my case, if I heat the trailer with anything other than the furnace, the tanks will definitely be subject to freezing.
regards,
Ken