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07-17-2017, 05:42 PM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Elk Rapids
, Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 173
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Sanity check: All new pex plumbing
Hi,
I thought I'd consult the hive mind before I start crimping. Here's my layout for the new water lines, not shown are the actual lines going to fixtures and coming from the tank.
Camper is a 1976 Argosy 26' and I have a new water heater and pump. The waste water side is done, the floor is patched, the new toilet is on it's way. My goal is to have a functional, leak free trailer for years to come.
I have a new city water inlet mounted on the curb side and I don't plan on using the old pressure regulator or relief valves. I will use an external pressure regulator and hope that with all new Pex I won't really have to worry about blowing anything out. The only original copper I plan on using are the shower lines and I will have separate shut-off valves for them.
So, those of you who have done this before is there anything I'm missing?
TIA,
John
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07-17-2017, 06:00 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill
, Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,014
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I don't see enough cold water connections.
Galley sink
Bath sink
Toilet
Shower
Water heater
That's 5.
Will there be a water heater bypass for winterizing?
Will there be a winterizing system ahead of the pump?
When I installed PEX in my '74 Argosy 26 I eliminated the drains. That was 8 years ago and I have no regrets.
Instead of running the galley sink lines across the front of the toilet platform and in front of the tub where there would be hidden fittings. I pushed the PEX lines around behind the tub between the tub and inner skin. No need for fittings until you get to the sink.
The fewer fittings the less chance for leaks.
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07-17-2017, 06:26 PM
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#3
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Elk Rapids
, Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 173
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The hot water heater is fed from the cold water line that's not shown, just like the original.
Could add a heater bypass for winterizing but I was thinking of towing it south instead
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07-17-2017, 10:04 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Sovereign
1979 23' Safari
Wayland
, New York
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,632
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I wouldn't use the manifold method. Run one cold water line from the inlet in a way that it passes all your loads and tee off that main line to supply the fixture. Similarly coming back from the water heater teeing off to the loads. The manifold method is great for houses but you're going to end up with a lot of pex in a small trailer this way.
I guess I'm assuming you're going the manifold method the way that is laid out on a board, though I guess that could be a mini representation of a main line with tees intended to go near each fixture.
With the pex you'll still need to blow out lines to prevent freeze damage.
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07-18-2017, 04:44 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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PEX will not spare you blowing out the lines IMO.
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07-18-2017, 05:22 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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Whatever else you do in terms of PEX, I recommend that your design include isolation valves in areas where the lines run close to key electrical components. It's a lot easier to do that preemptively than retroactively.
For instance, our lithium battery chamber is right in front of our outdoor shower compartment. Those things are notorious for leaking. Even though we replaced plastic components with better-quality metal ones, we still added hot and cold ball valves a few feet upstream of the electrical workings, so that the shower line segments can only be pressurized electively, when needed.
Here's a pictorial summary:
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07-18-2017, 06:54 AM
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#7
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Elk Rapids
, Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiJoeSilver
I wouldn't use the manifold method. Run one cold water line from the inlet in a way that it passes all your loads and tee off that main line to supply the fixture. Similarly coming back from the water heater teeing off to the loads. The manifold method is great for houses but you're going to end up with a lot of pex in a small trailer this way.
I guess I'm assuming you're going the manifold method the way that is laid out on a board, though I guess that could be a mini representation of a main line with tees intended to go near each fixture.
With the pex you'll still need to blow out lines to prevent freeze damage.
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Thanks HiJoe,
Yes I was going to use this as a manifold. The spot where I was going to put it is right where my 12V converter was, on the floor in the rear closet. Other than the galley lines everything is within 6' of this spot since it's a rear bath unit. Here's a picture of the original "manifold I'm pretty much duplicating.
John
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07-18-2017, 07:01 AM
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#8
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Elk Rapids
, Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog
Whatever else you do in terms of PEX, I recommend that your design include isolation valves in areas where the lines run close to key electrical components. It's a lot easier to do that preemptively than retroactively.
For instance, our lithium battery chamber is right in front of our outdoor shower compartment. Those things are notorious for leaking. Even though we replaced plastic components with better-quality metal ones, we still added hot and cold ball valves a few feet upstream of the electrical workings, so that the shower line segments can only be pressurized electively, when needed.
Here's a pictorial summary:
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Hi Interblog,
That definitely seems like a good idea. Things were a lot simpler in 1976, I'm replacing the big old noisy but still works like a champ, 12V converter with a modern unit that will be mounted on the closet wall next to the breaker box. This will get the electric above the water lines. Pressurized water will only come from the pump which is switched of course, or city water inlet. I thought of adding more shutoff valves but that just adds cost and a potential spot for leaks. If I decide to add more battery power they will go up front near where I'd use any modern electronics.
Thanks,
John
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07-18-2017, 07:03 AM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
1967 17' Caravel
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 221
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I agree on not using the manifold method...just run a main and "T" off of the main where necessary to feed fixtures. Also, I just finished my '67 Caravel with all new PEX plumbing and used Sharkbite push on fittings. Only one fitting leaked and it was my fault as I forgot to chamfer the end of the cut pipe. With Sharkbite fittings, you simply use a tool to remove the fitting and push it back on (after you fix the issue that caused you to remove it in the first place). Regardless, PEX is definitely the way to go.
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07-18-2017, 07:07 AM
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#10
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Elk Rapids
, Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15
PEX will not spare you blowing out the lines IMO.
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I'm pretty much done with Northern Michigan winter
But, as a marine mechanic I'm definitely familiar with winterizing boats and RV's. Although I haven't tried it yet, one old salt told me how he winterizes his boat without bypassing the water heater. Rather than using the pink stuff he fills the fresh water system with vodka. Then in the spring when it's time to commission for the season he has plenty of help from the crew at their bloody mary party!!!!
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07-18-2017, 07:17 AM
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#11
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Elk Rapids
, Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David F
I agree on not using the manifold method...just run a main and "T" off of the main where necessary to feed fixtures. Also, I just finished my '67 Caravel with all new PEX plumbing and used Sharkbite push on fittings. Only one fitting leaked and it was my fault as I forgot to chamfer the end of the cut pipe. With Sharkbite fittings, you simply use a tool to remove the fitting and push it back on (after you fix the issue that caused you to remove it in the first place). Regardless, PEX is definitely the way to go.
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That's two for ditching the manifold....
I just measured and it's literally just 4' from where I want to put the manifold to 5 of my connections. The other 2 are for the kitchen sink so I think I would want to home run those anyway. Is there a reason for not using a manifold other than how many lines are going from there to the fixtures?
Thanks,
John
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07-18-2017, 07:34 AM
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#12
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2 Rivet Member
1961 22' Safari
Collegeville
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34
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The only thing I see missing from your photo is the crimp rings.
I did something very similar with my '61 Safari, here are some photos.
The water tank is under the street-side bunk, as is the water heater.
The water goes into the system from the street connection via the third blue line from the left below (to the right of the line with the valve). Other wise it comes from the freshwater tank and pump.
The line on the left goes to the back of the trailer and feeds the bathroom fixtures (as does the red line shown).
The line with the valve is a drain line for the system but it accommodates a fitting for a garden hose so it's also an outdoor (cold) shower or spray hose if needed. Normally it's closed as shown.
The line with the right angle to the right is cold water for the kitchen sink. The last line on the right is going to the hot water heater. I have a bypass line between the inlet and outlet of the HWH and separate it when I pump in antifreeze in the winter. I just drain the tank.
The hot water tank goes into a tee and splits to the kitchen or to the bathroom in the back. I have a similar manifold in the back under the bath sink for the toilet, shower, spray wand and sink fixture.
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07-18-2017, 07:41 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
Lakes Region
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 815
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When I redid my plumbing I went WITH a manifold system, I also Incorporated a shutoff valve on each output of it, this way if one area developes an issue it can be isolated and shutoff, without losing any other systems use.
Cold water feed in one end, hot water feed other end, everything else off the tee's, this way max pressure feeds the hot water, most important for showers..
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07-18-2017, 07:53 AM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Elk Rapids
, Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHandyDan
The only thing I see missing from your photo is the crimp rings.
I did something very similar with my '61 Safari, here are some photos.
The water tank is under the street-side bunk, as is the water heater.
The water goes into the system from the street connection via the third blue line from the left below (to the right of the line with the valve). Other wise it comes from the freshwater tank and pump.
The line on the left goes to the back of the trailer and feeds the bathroom fixtures (as does the red line shown).
The line with the valve is a drain line for the system but it accommodates a fitting for a garden hose so it's also an outdoor (cold) shower or spray hose if needed. Normally it's closed as shown.
The line with the right angle to the right is cold water for the kitchen sink. The last line on the right is going to the hot water heater. I have a bypass line between the inlet and outlet of the HWH and separate it when I pump in antifreeze in the winter. I just drain the tank.
The hot water tank goes into a tee and splits to the kitchen or to the bathroom in the back. I have a similar manifold in the back under the bath sink for the toilet, shower, spray wand and sink fixture.
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Thanks Handy Dan,
This looks similar to what I'm doing. I like the outdoor hose fitting, I might re-purpose my old city water inlet this way.
John
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07-18-2017, 08:44 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Sovereign
1979 23' Safari
Wayland
, New York
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewsx
That's two for ditching the manifold....
I just measured and it's literally just 4' from where I want to put the manifold to 5 of my connections. The other 2 are for the kitchen sink so I think I would want to home run those anyway. Is there a reason for not using a manifold other than how many lines are going from there to the fixtures?
Thanks,
John
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Pretty much space. In a small trailer with tight spaces you can get pretty tight with lots of lines running in tight spaces. Pex is pretty light so space isn't to big of a deal.
If you're worried about pressure loss you can run a 3/4" main with 3/4 to 1/2 tees to each fixture. The piping is pretty short though so pressure loss isn't to bad..
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07-18-2017, 05:19 PM
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#16
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2 Rivet Member
1970 31' Sovereign
Charleston
, South Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 25
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I replaced everything supply-wise from the outside in with new pex. Great stuff. Replaced the pressure regulator and forward. Pex also allows you to run your plumbing along the contour of the AS instead of complicating it and slowing down the water flow with unnecessary right-angle fittings. Aside from three minor leaks when tested, all is well and the leaks easy to fix. I used ample ball-valves and also have a way of determining whether I am on storage tank mode or street mode. Tried not to put connectors or possible leak places near where there was electric. Only problem I experienced was that the pump on the freshwater tank was VERY strong and blew the fitting on the over-engineered Pfister fitting at the kitchen sink out. Went back to basics with double hose clamps and only using the pump when one of the valves is open - a little inconvenient for a while, but works. Check it out at www.OldFartsInAnAirstream.com
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07-20-2017, 07:24 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1973 21' Globetrotter
1975 26' Argosy 26
Vista
, California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 589
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I think the manifold meathead is just a lot of extra pipe. It looks neat at the start but gets messy as the pipes snake all around. IMHO it is simpler and neater, to have a main line and T off as needed.
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07-20-2017, 07:57 AM
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#18
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 75
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I did 1/2" pex mine and wish I would have used 3/8", at least for the fixtures. It would have saved some room in the tight spaces.
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07-22-2017, 12:20 PM
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#19
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Elk Rapids
, Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 173
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Here's what I did yesterday. Still need to plumb the fixtures....
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07-23-2017, 07:54 AM
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#20
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 75
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Keep on crimpin'
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