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Old 03-31-2016, 08:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by okstreamer View Post
I forgot to mention an additional plumbing trick I added while I had the pump disconnected. On the inlet side of the pump I installed 1/2 in FIP full port diverter ball valve. One side connects to the pipe going to the fresh water. The other side I installed a FIP to hose connector so it allowed me an opening by switching the valve once a year to fill my pipes with antifreeze. This makes it very easy to do that chore by just hooking a small hose to the valve opening put it in a gallon of antifreeze and turn on the pump, open each faucet until you see the color of antifreeze. Usually only takes a gallon of th antifreeze to do my job. Then I close the valve back to its original fresh water position and screw a hose cap on the open end of the diverter valve and I am done. When spring comes just add water to the fresh water tank and pump all the antifreeze out.
Thanks for this....

I have a antifreeze bypass placed inline now that I got from Camping world. I'm assuming its what your talking about.

While we're on this topic, would it be possible for you to take a picture of your plumbing setup so I can see how everything fits together. Here is the bypass that I have already, just to make sure we're talking about the same thing....

Thanks

Doug
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:09 PM   #30
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Thumbs up quiet pump setup

Here is what I did to make the noise stop.
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:26 AM   #31
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Here is what I did to make the noise stop.
Thanks for the photo. On the 20-footer thread there are a number of folks who have installed (or are about to install) a similar fix.

What is the foam material on the floor please? Just standard packing material, or did you buy some special acoustic dampening material? Are the stainless braided hoses the ShurFlo kit?

Other than the foam and flex hoses, are there other components in your fix? And did you put any foam material on any of the walls not seen in your photo?

Thanks,

Peter

PS -- This blue jeans insulation material is under consideration. Do you have any experience with it? Thanks.

http://www.bondedlogic.com/ultraliner-sound-blanket/
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:07 PM   #32
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Pump noise fix

The noise is actually coming from 3 sources. 1 the pump itself. Any stiff foam insulation between the pump and the floor will isolate this noise. 2 the water hammer of the pump turning on and off causes this noise through the plumbing pipes. The water hammer arrester provides an air shock absorber to stop this noise. 3 the noise transmitted from the pump down the stiff pex plastic lines. This is taken care of by the braided stainless steel connectors found at any plumbing parts store or Home Depot. Installing some foam pipe insulation around the pipes helps prevent any other pipe noise. All three of these noise are transmitted down to the wood floor and just resonate like a speaker. The key is just isolate the whole thing from the floor and other objects as much as possible.
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Old 04-04-2016, 04:39 PM   #33
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The noise is actually coming from 3 sources. 1 the pump itself. Any stiff foam insulation between the pump and the floor will isolate this noise. 2 the water hammer of the pump turning on and off causes this noise through the plumbing pipes. The water hammer arrester provides an air shock absorber to stop this noise. 3 the noise transmitted from the pump down the stiff pex plastic lines. This is taken care of by the braided stainless steel connectors found at any plumbing parts store or Home Depot. Installing some foam pipe insulation around the pipes helps prevent any other pipe noise. All three of these noise are transmitted down to the wood floor and just resonate like a speaker. The key is just isolate the whole thing from the floor and other objects as much as possible.

Okstreamer, can arrestors me mounted horizontally? On the 20í there is limited space above the pump (pot & pan drawer).

I subscribe to the 20/r thread that Peter mentioned above which has been discussing the pump noise for a while.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f516...127845-38.html and the following pages.

I opted to not get too fancy so slipped a sheet 3/8Ē high density foam under the pump and most of the compartment. When reattaching the pump, I didnít run the screws down as tight as OEM. I also added a mall rubber grommet between the screw head and the washer. I then added some low density foam inside the clamps and slipped some sections of pipe insulation at the points of contact. I also noticed that flex to pex connection (distribution) was touching the diamond plate and presumed this was a source of extreme vibration and shudder. I cut a small section of the HDF for here too and added the pipe insulation. I opted to not re-clamp here not only because it was impossible to get the drill driver in there with any leverage for a self-tapping screw, (since I didnít want to remove the bike rack) but there were also 2 clamps downstream within inches, so I called it good.

I like the arrestor concept and have seem them at supply stores. I suspect the answer to the above is no so Iíll probably add one in the vertical position and the flex to pex connection. Itís pretty protected so should not be in the way.

At this point I opted to not replace the OEM flex with the std stainless used for sinks etc, but may revisit it later if needed. I also opted to not add any sound deadening (except the HDF ensolite pad on the pump area floor), other than possibly in the bottom of the drawer immediately above and hopefully serve a dual purpose of keeping the pot/pans (immediately above pump) from sliding around, however this also may warrant a re-evaluation.



Bob
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Old 04-04-2016, 04:59 PM   #34
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Your work looks good, Bob, but I think the proper term is accumulator, not arrestor!

http://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-182-20.../dp/B000N9VF6Q

As I posted on the 20-footer thread I am trying to get around to this work with some new dampening material TBD, but it has been raining and snowing with another frost warning for tonight. Just like Ireland here today!

Sparky

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Old 04-04-2016, 06:19 PM   #35
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Arrester mounting

Water hammer arresters can be mounted in any position, just install a tee in the line on the supply side of the pump and fit it in where you can.
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Old 04-04-2016, 07:39 PM   #36
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Here is what I did to make the noise stop.

Thanks very much for the photo, I think I have a lot better idea how and what you have done now

Cheers
Doug


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Old 04-04-2016, 07:53 PM   #37
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Almost forgot. Is there a particular hammer arresters I need. I looked around the small town I live in and it looks like I will have to order it from someone. So I want to make sure I get the right one that I can just install inline.
With that in mind, I might as well order the stainless steel hoses also. So is there a size and length I should get?

Thanks
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:51 PM   #38
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Water hammer arresters can be mounted in any position, just install a tee in the line on the supply side of the pump and fit it in where you can.

Thanks okstreamer for the feedback/

Bob
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:10 PM   #39
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Your work looks good, Bob, but I think the proper term is accumulator, not arrestor!

http://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-182-20.../dp/B000N9VF6Q

As I posted on the 20-footer thread I am trying to get around to this work with some new dampening material TBD, but it has been raining and snowing with another frost warning for tonight. Just like Ireland here today!

Sparky


Peter, thanks.


Sun for 3 days, rain today and suns for another 4 projected. Hard to split the time between the springtime garden & yard chores and the AS mods.
Bud break and travel plans are both imminent.

I may be off track, but I think of the accumulator tank the the arrestor, as serving slightly different functions? I think of the tank as smoothing out the supply side demands-short cycling ( and to a lessor degree the hammer) & associated with a open faucet/shower head and the arrestor to deal primarily with hammer and hopefully my shudder. We're not big time boondockers and need to deal with intermittent use (washing hands and the toilet) during an over night boondock.

You mounted your tank in the pump room...correct? and some (20's) have mounted vertically on the wall outside the pump room (in storage).

BTW great find on the bonded logic spec. Sounds very promising. I'll await the results.

Bob
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:14 PM   #40
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oooops, here is the arrestor. Using a brass T and probably a nipple, I'll slip this between the flex to pex connection just inside the rear storage, downstream of the pump. Phase 2 if needed, SS flex and maybe the tank.

Bob
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:43 AM   #41
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oooops, here is the arrestor. Using a brass T and probably a nipple, I'll slip this between the flex to pex connection just inside the rear storage, downstream of the pump. Phase 2 if needed, SS flex and maybe the tank.

Bob
Thanks Bob.

Those basic copper units will work in residential plumbing where they can be installed vertically at a high point in a plumbing run. The air trapped in the copper "dead end street" will remain there [although over the long run the air can become water IMO -- a different discussion as the physical setup is different in a house].

Not so sure if this simple device will work in a trailer, however, as it is at a low point in the plumbing system. When the trailer's pipes are de-pressurized when traveling (no city water -- pump off), the air trapped in the unit will vibrate out and rise to the high point in the system, especially with the trailer shaking all over the place IMO. And water will replace the air which has risen.

The ShurFlo Accumulator linked earlier (and the same one installed by one or more 20-footers IMO) has air permanently trapped in it behind a diaphragm I believe. Thus the air can never get out, making it possible to install the unit horizontally IMO, even in the rear compartment of the FC20 under the sinks, where there is more room.

I don't think that water hammering is the main noise problem in the pump room in our 20-footers, however, so I am planning on doing the sound/echo dampening work first, including the SS flex connectors, pipe insulation, and foam etc. on the floor and walls.

Peter

PS -- Commercial "arrestors" similar to the ShurFlo Accumulator seem to be available, but if I go this route I will get the ShurFlo unit like other FC20 posters have done. Still think the term "arrestor" does not reflect the physics of the undertaking, but it does seem to be generally used, just to clarify the terminology issue.

I do see your point about the two possible different functions, but a good accumulator tank install will obviate the need for an arrestor IMO. One step at a time as detailed above . . .
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:17 AM   #42
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Thanks Peter, Your discussion makes sense. It will be interesting hear the pump in a couple of weeks when I summerize Blue.

I'm also going to contact JC for a part # for the flex hoses. I never got a response fro Shur-flo to my question. The anti vibration set on their website sure looks like what have been installed. I suspect it's the hose contact points and the over tightening of the pump that are the major contributors to the shuddering I hear. I also suspect the conversion to SS connections and sound deadening will help as well, just not as much IMO. I'll look to forward to hearing ; ) your results.

Bob
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