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WILDRTEXAS · 09-27-2009, 02:00 PM

Hello,

I am attempting to replace the copper plumbing with Pex.
I am fairly handy but, I'm stumped with this maze. Do I really need all 5 of these cut off's?
The 1st photo (left to right) has a cut off that I think comes out of the fresh water tank (?)
The 2nd goes to the sink (with another cut off) Hot or cold Im not sure. The 3rd has another cut of that goes to hot or cold?? NOT SURE

If you look below the 3rd cut off, it has a short piece of copper that slips thru a hole in the floor (pulled up for photo), on the bottom side, below the AS its an open pipe. Is this normal? If so, what is this? Also, the copper lines that appear to go to the sink faucet are different sizes. Is this normal? Im really lost.

Does it really have to be this complicated or is this just pieced together? Any suggestions to simplify this with pex is so appreciated. THANK YOU ALL!!

mello mike · 09-27-2009, 03:36 PM

The three red-handled valves are actually drain valves. All three are connected to that pipe that runs out the bottom of your Airstream. One valve drains your fresh water tank and the other two drain your hot and cold water lines. Not sure if you need to have two in the kitchen to drain your hot and cold water lines since there are also two in the bathroom. The other valves in your pic appear to be shutoffs for your hot and cold water lines running to your kitchen sink. It's up to you whether you want these there or not. I would.

Minno · 09-27-2009, 06:38 PM

The hot and cold water drain valves are installed at the low points of the water system. My 72 Sovereign, did not have low point drains in the bathroom, only by the water tank as you have. If you eliminate these from the kitchen, then you will have a few inches or feet of water pipe between the tank and the pump that may not drain completely for winterizing your trailer. Might not be an issue in Texas though...

But it could be for a future owner of the trailer if they move it up North.

So, I would keep the 3 drain valves.

I’m with Mike on eliminating the shut valves to the kitchen skin. That seems like overkill in a trailer, where all you need to do is shut off the pump or city water supply to replace or repair a faucet.

Chris

jerrypeterma · 09-27-2009, 06:43 PM

all that is good info, because I am fixing the hot and cold water lines that frooze last year from not knowing to open all three drains

**azflycaster** · 09-27-2009, 07:50 PM

When the PO PEX'd my trailer all of the drains except for the fresh water tank were eliminated. The PO pumped antifreeze into the system and bypassed the water heater. The system is leak free.

It was 108 degrees in Phoenix today, still a little early to think about winterizing.

DaveFL · 09-27-2009, 07:57 PM

There is a good reason to be able to drain all besides temp, if you take on some bad water, much easier to flush system by just draining. Can also use flushing action after bleaching tanks and pipes.

WILDRTEXAS · 09-29-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minno

The hot and cold water drain valves are installed at the low points of the water system. My 72 Sovereign, did not have low point drains in the bathroom, only by the water tank as you have. If you eliminate these from the kitchen, then you will have a few inches or feet of water pipe between the tank and the pump that may not drain completely for winterizing your trailer. Might not be an issue in Texas though...

But it could be for a future owner of the trailer if they move it up North.

So, I would keep the 3 drain valves.

I’m with Mike on eliminating the shut valves to the kitchen skin. That seems like overkill in a trailer, where all you need to do is shut off the pump or city water supply to replace or repair a faucet.

Chris

I had planned moving the 3 valves up for better access UNTIL you said they are installed at the low points in the water system. NOW makes sense to me. Thanks for the info. Im just learning about my AS.

I really appreciate everyones help. Really would be lost without all the help. THANKS!!!!

mimiandrews · 09-29-2009, 10:10 AM

Suggestion: If you haven't already done so, draw a schematic of your entire water system, separate cold and hot, and figure the whole thing out before you cut out the copper. We replaced damaged copper with PEX in our Safari, and many times the drawings were the only thing that saved us big mistakes. You'll find places where the PEX fittings won't fit exactly where the copper ones did, and you'll have to re-design a bit to do the same thing.

Also, if you're using the crimped copper rings to secure the PEX, be sure to plan the last crimp at a place where the tool will fit and operate in the space you have. We had to pre-fabricate several assemblies outside the tight spaces and then install the whole thing together.

Lots of planning and head scratching, but it's a great system when you get it done.

mello mike · 09-29-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minno

The hot and cold water drain valves are installed at the low points of the water system. My 72 Sovereign, did not have low point drains in the bathroom, only by the water tank as you have.

That's interesting, Chris. I wonder why my Sovereign has two sets of drains in the Kitchen and bathroom? Seems like overkill to me. I think I'll eliminate one set probably the ones in the kitchen.

Minno · 09-30-2009, 11:11 AM

Hi Mike,

I'd be more tempted to eliminate the ones in the bathroom. Then you'd have your low point drains and tank drain all nicely together in one spot. My service manual shows low point drains in both the bathroom and kitchen, so maybe a PO eliminated the bathroom ones at some point before we got her. Heaven knows there were enough patches in the water system for anything to be possible!

Chris

Ganglin · 09-30-2009, 12:35 PM

Just an added thought on the front and rear drains. We follow the manual instructions to over-kill when draining the trailer (even though I pump all the lines full of antifreeze). I have no intention of having to replace the copper with anything else.

Open all faucets - front and rear drains - and the exterior faucet the PO added next to the incoming water line and let it drain - as well as the water heater.

Fresh water tank has never had water in it until this year so it was always bone dry.

Then (per the manual) jacked the unit up until the elect. jack maxed out and let it drain. Then let the jack down as far as it will go.

Without fail we have always had additional water still drain from the front low points when the nose was lowered as the last step......

Minno · 09-30-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganglin

Without fail we have always had additional water still drain from the front low points when the nose was lowered as the last step......

Yup - I can see that happening. When you raise the front of the trailer, the water lines that run around the rear end are going to be lower than the drain valves in the bathroom. Once you lower the front end, then the front drain valves are lower than the rear, so the remaining water drains out the front valves.

Chris

Chuck · 09-30-2009, 12:53 PM

yeah, there's always more in there than ya might think. its a long, flat run of pipes from the galley to the bathroom, too. one drain point might not be enough.
might be moot if you're going to pump antifreeze...which I would do, as I've twice had damaged pumps (which aren't protected by draining, or blowing-out the pipes) from not getting the antifreeze in there in a timely fashion. you'd think once would have been enough to learn me, but NOOoooo.

InsideOut · 09-30-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azflycaster

It was 108 degrees in Phoenix today, still a little early to think about winterizing.

Yeah, but aren't you headed to Colorado? You may need to take care of that before you leave here in a couple of weeks...especialy if you are headed up to the mountains after the rally.

You never know.

Shari

Minno · 09-30-2009, 01:48 PM

It was 37 degrees this morning in Minneapolis.

mello mike · 09-30-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minno

It was 37 degrees this morning in Minneapolis.

Yeah, it's been cooling off here in Phoenix, too. It was 65 degrees yesterday morning.

**azflycaster** · 09-30-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Yeah, but aren't you headed to Colorado? You may need to take care of that before you leave here in a couple of weeks...especialy if you are headed up to the mountains after the rally.

You never know.

Shari

We will keeping a eye on the temperatures on our return trip from Fort Collins.

WILDRTEXAS · 12-02-2009, 05:48 PM

OK, another question when winterizing. Where are you putting the antifreeze (scary) and how are you blowing lines?

Aage · 12-02-2009, 06:34 PM

To blow out lines, there is a little adapter (less than $2) that screws on where you connect your water hose (in). It has a Schraeder valve, so you can put an air hose on it. Let it blow for a while, 40 lbs is plenty of pressure.

Then some people use the water pump to suck up antifreeze and fill all the lines, but I personally think that's overkill. If the water's gone, what's to freeze?

It IS necessary to displace all the water in the "P" traps with antifreeze. Those are the sideways P-shaped drain pipes under each and every sink, and tub and they trap water to stop sewer gases from coming back up the drains.

There are a lot of threads on winterizing, use the Google choice in the airforums.com Search menu, they'll pop up. Ferinstance, the terlet needs a bit of extra care, and make sure the black tank is empty!

By the way, the antifreeze for RVs is NOT poisonous, so no worries, dollinks!

WILDRTEXAS · 12-02-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aage

To blow out lines, there is a little adapter (less than $2) that screws on where you connect your water hose (in). It has a Schraeder valve, so you can put an air hose on it. Let it blow for a while, 40 lbs is plenty of pressure.

Then some people use the water pump to suck up antifreeze and fill all the lines, but I personally think that's overkill. If the water's gone, what's to freeze?

It IS necessary to displace all the water in the "P" traps with antifreeze. Those are the sideways P-shaped drain pipes under each and every sink, and tub and they trap water to stop sewer gases from coming back up the drains.

There are a lot of threads on winterizing, use the Google choice in the airforums.com Search menu, they'll pop up.

By the way, the antifreeze for RVs is NOT poisonous, so no worries, dollinks!

See...there you go teaching me again....Thanks a Bunch Mr. Man