Fresh water leaking somewhere??

[Rovin Raven]

We filled our fresh water tank, but after just washing a few dishes and sitting overnight it was empty...but no visible leaks, no puddles on the ground, although it could have been absorbed. Then refilled it a little, but still did not see leaks. We havent dropped the pan yet. Just wondering if it is possible that it is leaking somewhere in the belly, squeezing up around the pan. Has anyone experienced this? (We plan on dropping the pan on Monday.)

[pcskier]

"Empty" according to your tank monitor or "Empty" because when you called for water, none appeared? If the former, your tank sensors can be WAY off. Mine always are. If the latter, it's hard to imagine 20+ gallons of water disappearing without a trace of evidence on the ground. If there is a leak, the water will find it's way out of the pan and not get 'stuck' up in there.

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by Rovin Raven

. Just wondering if it is possible that it is leaking somewhere in the belly, squeezing up around the pan. Has anyone experienced this? (We plan on dropping the pan on Monday.)

Could an open valve somewhere have leaked fresh water into grey tank?

Before you drop the belly try a flexible fiber optic shaft.

[Alumaholic]

It goes back to PCSkier's question ""Empty" according to your tank monitor or "Empty" because when you called for water, none appeared?"
If you filled an empty fresh-water holding tank, and if the pump runs and runs nothing comes out of the kitchen faucet, please remove your faucet aerator and clean all the gunky sediment out before you drop the pan.
You may also have a filter right at the pump that can get completely blocked with sediment.
This happens to me with the first fill up every season.
BTW the pan will never totally contain a water leak. This I know all too well.
Good luck with that sediment!

[Rovin Raven]

The water is spitting out the faucet like when you are empty. The indicator light is red, when yesterday it was green. I got underneath and opened the drain valve and nothing came out. So, yes, it appears that about 18 gallons of water went somewhere. The idea of the water filling the grey water tank is interesting, but the grey water indicator light is still green.

[Rovin Raven]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

Could an open valve somewhere have leaked fresh water into grey tank?

Before you drop the belly try a flexible fiber optic shaft.

Can you explain what you mean by fiber optic shaft?

[pcskier]

Originally Posted by Rovin Raven

The water is spitting out the faucet like when you are empty. The indicator light is red, when yesterday it was green. I got underneath and opened the drain valve and nothing came out. So, yes, it appears that about 18 gallons of water went somewhere. The idea of the water filling the grey water tank is interesting, but the grey water indicator light is still green.

Hmmm. The mystery deepens. Is there a chance something was left slightly 'on' like a faucet or shower? But then you'd here the pump cycling all night and the grey would be nearly filled up which doesn't appear to be the case.


If your tank was full, and nothing was 'on', and you confirmed that the tank is *definitely* empty...then yes there's surely a leak in the tank. To confirm, fill tank, turn off pump and look carefully underneath. The leak will soon be apparent.

[Rovin Raven]

Are there any schematics of the plumbing available somewhere? Also, if the fittings on the top of the tank cracked, where would the water go? Would it go in the pan around the tank, or into the subfloor? Or around the shower stall? Or...? I wish I could see a picture of all the plumbing. That would help.

[Rovin Raven]

Originally Posted by pcskier

Hmmm. The mystery deepens. Is there a chance something was left slightly 'on' like a faucet or shower? But then you'd here the pump cycling all night and the grey would be nearly filled up which doesn't appear to be the case.


If your tank was full, and nothing was 'on', and you confirmed that the tank is *definitely* empty...then yes there's surely a leak in the tank. To confirm, fill tank, turn off pump and look carefully underneath. The leak will soon be apparent.

We have already tried that. We can find no visible leaks under the Airstream. We have found no leaks around the pump. We haven’t taken out the dinette to look back into the bathroom plumbing yet. Will do that before we drop the tank pan, when we get the Airstream home. I can’t figure out where else to look. So, advice as to where to look would be helpful. Is it possible to be under the floor?? If so, how would I know, how could I see it?

[pcskier]

Originally Posted by Rovin Raven

Are there any schematics of the plumbing available somewhere? Also, if the fittings on the top of the tank cracked, where would the water go? Would it go in the pan around the tank, or into the subfloor? Or around the shower stall? Or...? I wish I could see a picture of all the plumbing. That would help.

If it was a fitting on the top of the tank, either fill hose or extraction fitting...you wouldn't lose a full tank of water, you'd only have some leaking when on the road and the water was sloshing around and leaking out the top. This is what happened to GMFL from a random loose screw lodged above the tank that finally pierced it -- he had to replace his tank.

In your case...if the tank is emptying, it's gotta be the bottom...very likely the drain fitting that is inside the tank pan attached to the tank. Can be a real PIA to replace that, but if that's it, Ronnie (GMFL) can be of great help with advice. Look under your trailer by the tank drain. is there a panel you can remove and have a look up there?

Meanwhile, the tank is below the floor, so a leaking tank would not leak anywhere inside the trailer (above floor), only in the belly pan. If your tank is emptying, you won't find anything leaking into the bathroom or anywhere else above the floor. Only into the belly. You can ask Airstream for a schematic but that won't help. Your leak is in the tank...either a hole/crack down low, or the drain fitting. There is nowhere else, no other fittings, that would allow the tank to completely empty. All plumbing/fittings are above the floor, so they would not leak unless the pump was on and running the whole time as the tank emptied. This is again, assuming the tank is truly emptying out. Question. Have you refilled the tank, and you see no leaks? perhaps don't use any water, and see the status again in the morning?

[OTRA15]

Good advice so far. Let us know what you see when you drop the belly pan on Monday.

Originally Posted by Rovin Raven

. . .
(We plan on dropping the pan on Monday.)

The water tank is lower than almost all the plumbing, so if the pump is off and city water is off, it is unlikely that any of your plumbing is leaking IMO. Have you looked at the exposed plumbing in these areas for leaks?
-- rear storage area
-- under galley sink
-- under bath sink
-- under the front dinette seat
-- exterior water heater mechanical space near dinette
-- pump and filter under the large galley drawer below the oven
-- exterior shower

Something is being overlooked IMO. Any chance someone came by and siphoned off your fresh water as a prank?



Good luck,

Peter

[rmkrum]

Or the level indicator, like mine, lies like a rug...Micropulse is not real accurate, to put it politely

[OTRA15]

PS --

Originally Posted by Rovin Raven

. . .
. . . no puddles on the ground, although it could have been absorbed.
. . .

So the ground is earth/grass/sand? Maybe put some clean dry towels on the ground overnight, for everything aft of the wheels. Even if the water is trapped above the belly pan, some should leak out overnight.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Or the level indicator, like mine, lies like a rug...Micropulse is not real accurate, to put it politely

She opened the drain valve for the water tank, and no water came out.

[CBWELL]

Put some water in the tank. Check the drain valve to make sure it is closed. Open and close drain valve to be sure that it is in the closed position. Same thing happened to me, and drain valve was slightly open. Felt like an idiot, but check the obvious things first!!

[pcskier]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Have you looked at the exposed plumbing in these areas for leaks?
-- rear storage area
-- under galley sink
-- under bath sink
-- under the front dinette seat
-- exterior water heater mechanical space near dinette
-- pump and filter under the large galley drawer below the oven
-- exterior shower

Something is being overlooked IMO. Any chance someone came by and siphoned off your fresh water as a prank?

A leak in any of those would not empty the tank, or really leak any water from the tank...unless the pump was on.


This one is a mystery thus far!

[OTRA15]

Of course . . . . . . that list was mainly to ensure a thorough eyes-on examination of various plumbing spaces.

You omitted this part of my earlier post:

Originally Posted by OTRA15

. . .
The water tank is lower than almost all the plumbing, so if the pump is off and city water is off, it is unlikely that any of your plumbing is leaking IMO.
. . .

Our FC20’s are so small that looking in all those places is, essentially, a full-scale plumbing schematic!

[A W Warn]

Water does not disappear, unless it evaporates, which is impossible from an enclosed tank in the time frame you mentioned (overnight).
If a full tank of water leaked on the ground overnight it would be at least a fast trickle, there would be evidence on the ground (unless you are parked in sandy soil) and dripping from the pan.
If either the gray or black tank does not contain it, that water it went down the sewer.
Faucet or toilet valves are the likely culprits.

Were the dump valves open?
Did you hear the pump running?
Is there a hose connected with an open end below the level of the water tank that could have siphoned water? (if a check valve failed)

[Rovin Raven]

Originally Posted by pcskier

If it was a fitting on the top of the tank, either fill hose or extraction fitting...you wouldn't lose a full tank of water, you'd only have some leaking when on the road and the water was sloshing around and leaking out the top. This is what happened to GMFL from a random loose screw lodged above the tank that finally pierced it -- he had to replace his tank.

In your case...if the tank is emptying, it's gotta be the bottom...very likely the drain fitting that is inside the tank pan attached to the tank. Can be a real PIA to replace that, but if that's it, Ronnie (GMFL) can be of great help with advice. Look under your trailer by the tank drain. is there a panel you can remove and have a look up there?

Meanwhile, the tank is below the floor, so a leaking tank would not leak anywhere inside the trailer (above floor), only in the belly pan. If your tank is emptying, you won't find anything leaking into the bathroom or anywhere else above the floor. Only into the belly. You can ask Airstream for a schematic but that won't help. Your leak is in the tank...either a hole/crack down low, or the drain fitting. There is nowhere else, no other fittings, that would allow the tank to completely empty. All plumbing/fittings are above the floor, so they would not leak unless the pump was on and running the whole time as the tank emptied. This is again, assuming the tank is truly emptying out. Question. Have you refilled the tank, and you see no leaks? perhaps don't use any water, and see the status again in the morning?

I’m hoping you are right and it isn’t pushing up into the Airstream. Yes we refille the tank just with a few gallons and can find no leak. My only worry is that 18 gallons will end up filling all the low points and then be pushed up into the body. By the way, I am the one who filled it so I know it was full.

[Rovin Raven]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Good advice so far. Let us know what you see when you drop the belly pan on Monday.



The water tank is lower than almost all the plumbing, so if the pump is off and city water is off, it is unlikely that any of your plumbing is leaking IMO. Have you looked at the exposed plumbing in these areas for leaks?
-- rear storage area
-- under galley sink
-- under bath sink
-- under the front dinette seat
-- exterior water heater mechanical space near dinette
-- pump and filter under the large galley drawer below the oven
-- exterior shower

Something is being overlooked IMO. Any chance someone came by and siphoned off your fresh water as a prank?



Good luck,

Peter

To repeat what I wrote earlier, we checked everywhere except the places that require us to remove the dinette, which will have to wait until it is home on Monday. And, of course, the only person who could pull off that prank would have to be someone with the exact same key to the fresh water tank....another Airstreamer, perhaps?