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06-26-2010, 10:43 PM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
1963 22' Safari
sherman oaks
, California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 73
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air pressurized water system on '63 Safari
There is what I think to be a bleeder T-valve sticking out right next to the city water fill cap w the air nipple on it. That T valve does not turn. Is it supposed to and what is it for? Sprung a small leak in the under the counter glass water gauge but I think it's just finding a new gasket for brass top that will fix it. That T valve throws me. I also think there is a pressure regulator under there too but I am told that is regulated by 12v system and as I reported in the electrical forum I can't get that system going yet. If there is a switch for that regulator I sure cant find it.
I'm open to any and all comments.
Thanks millions!
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06-26-2010, 10:45 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1963 22' Safari
2020 27' Globetrotter
State of
, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,512
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Some pictures would really help. The pressure switch is on the pump, probably a switch on the passanger side front area depending on your layout. Not sure about the valve you are speaking.
__________________
Scott & Megan
VAC LIBRARIAN WBCCI 8671
1963 Safari from the 1963-64 Around the World Caravan
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06-26-2010, 11:13 PM
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#3
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2 Rivet Member
1963 22' Safari
sherman oaks
, California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 73
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How do I add pics (jpg) to this?
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06-26-2010, 11:23 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1963 22' Safari
2020 27' Globetrotter
State of
, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,512
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when you post, click "go advanced" and then it will let you manage attachments if you scroll down below where you type the message in. then you select files to upload, click upload then post
__________________
Scott & Megan
VAC LIBRARIAN WBCCI 8671
1963 Safari from the 1963-64 Around the World Caravan
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06-27-2010, 01:22 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmenchel
There is what I think to be a bleeder T-valve sticking out right next to the city water fill cap w the air nipple on it. That T valve does not turn. Is it supposed to and what is it for? Sprung a small leak in the under the counter glass water gauge but I think it's just finding a new gasket for brass top that will fix it. That T valve throws me. I also think there is a pressure regulator under there too but I am told that is regulated by 12v system and as I reported in the electrical forum I can't get that system going yet. If there is a switch for that regulator I sure cant find it.
I'm open to any and all comments.
Thanks millions!
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Change the pressure system to a demand system. An update like that will in time, save you many cuss words.
You would need a plastic water tank, a water pump, a check valve and about 4 to 5 hours labor.
Andy
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06-27-2010, 04:23 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
1955 22' Flying Cloud
2021 27' Globetrotter
Gulfport
, Mississippi
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmenchel
There is what I think to be a bleeder T-valve sticking out right next to the city water fill cap w the air nipple on it. That T valve does not turn. Is it supposed to and what is it for? Sprung a small leak in the under the counter glass water gauge but I think it's just finding a new gasket for brass top that will fix it. That T valve throws me. I also think there is a pressure regulator under there too but I am told that is regulated by 12v system and as I reported in the electrical forum I can't get that system going yet. If there is a switch for that regulator I sure cant find it.
I'm open to any and all comments.
Thanks millions!
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I think that's the valve that you can use a manual pump, such as a bicycle pump, to pressurize the tank if the 12v air pump is not working. I have a wall switch, like a light switch, that operates the air pump.
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06-28-2010, 06:41 PM
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#7
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2 Rivet Member
1963 22' Safari
sherman oaks
, California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 73
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air pressure water system on '63 Safari
I've attached a picture of what I think is an air pressure regulator(but who knows). I've pressurized the system by filling the water filler cap air valve stem with airpressure but it lasts only 1 min or so. This contraption is not powering up at all but if it only works on 12v power, I have none.(another topic) I would think it works on shore power too which I have plenty of but it doesnt power up on shore power. What do you do to keep the airpressure in the water system working?One person said to change over to a demand water system but before I do anything like that I'm trying to use and learn the original systems that the trailer intended. One reason that I purchased this AS is because everything is original.Also, I assume that the water in my tanks is always the only water avail to me? If I am at a campground with a water hookup I have no constant water hookup via hose etc. I have only the ability to fill my tanks when they are low, right? I realize that's getting ahead of myself I haven't even figured out how the air pressure controlled water system works yet but I'm tryin'
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06-28-2010, 06:59 PM
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#8
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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The contraption is the optional air compressor, and I believe it does require 12 volt power.
The pressure tank system in your safari works on the principle that you fill the tank with water, close the cap tightly, and then pressurize the tank with air. As the water is depleted, more air is added. Either the "contraption" or a tire chuck at a service station can serve as the source of air.
Andy is correct that these systems often prove to be a fruitful source of frustration. If you're going to stay with it, you would want to locate any leaks and repair them. Be aware that parts for the original compressor may be difficult to find. Many Airstream owners performing otherwise faithful restorations do update systems that are not normally visible where the technology has improved significantly, most especially the propane regulator, brakes, converter, and water pump.
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06-28-2010, 07:36 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1963 22' Safari
2020 27' Globetrotter
State of
, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,512
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your pump runs on 12 volts. Chances are the leak is either broken pipe, or the o-ring in the tank cap. Jammer is correct that many do upgrade (Andy mentioned this earlier as well). If you do decide to go with a standard on demand pump instead of a pressurized system, then please don't throw out the old pump, love to work a deal out with you, since we're planning on returning our system on our 63 back to original, and as Jammer mentioned, the parts on those pumps are hard to find.
Keep in mind the only time you need that pump is if you're out camping where you can't hook up a hose to a water supply from the city, well etc. I'm personally not aware of a 110 pump (most rv pumps are 12 volt), but am sure someone out there makes one.
__________________
Scott & Megan
VAC LIBRARIAN WBCCI 8671
1963 Safari from the 1963-64 Around the World Caravan
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06-28-2010, 09:31 PM
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#10
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2 Rivet Member
1963 22' Safari
sherman oaks
, California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 73
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well first let me say thatnks! I love being a part( if even a newbie) of this community. Your response time is incredible and amazingly helpful. It usually takes days for my wife and kids to respond to me...(that's a whole other story)and I've only known you guys for a month!!!
Well first I'm going to start w the O-ring on the filler cap because I would have sworn I heard a hissing noise after I pressurized the system so first things first... Scott and Megan, if I do replace the compressor you guys will get it. Just keep answering my dumb questions so that one day I can keep answering someone elses dumb questions...
So just let me understand the concept...when I'm out campin without any leaks my pressurized system will run for a tank of water maybe with a repressurized refill once in a while from a bike pump or a car air compressor? When I'm at a campsite with water hookup; water, air, water,air etc right? Ok I will figure out this 12v system if it kills me...if it does then you have compressor pars sooner than you thought...
Thanks all
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06-28-2010, 09:52 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1963 22' Safari
2020 27' Globetrotter
State of
, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,512
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There should be a place on your trailer (it ranges widely) for you to hook up a garden hose to the trailer, which when your system is water tight and running, will run just like your house, the water from the camp site (your house or whatever) will pressurize the system and water will flow normal.
Lets say you decide you want to go camping and stay somewhere with no utilities provided....
The way your current system is set up, you'd fill your fresh water tank at home, using the 12 volt pump there (switch located on the wall) when you need water, turn the switch on, air pump comes on, pumps air into the tank, which wants to force the water out the pipe and out whatever fixture (sink, toilet, shower) you turn on. Right now that hiss is the first problem, just need to figure out where the air leak is. Its good that its a hiss, and not running water, probably at the cap or an open valve somewhere. Yes if you don't use the 12 volt pump a bike pump or 12v car air compressor could pressure the system, of course the on board pump is automatic and therefore a bit more convenient.
The modern system they are talking about... instead of using air, just past the tank of fresh water it uses a 12 volt water pump to pump water out of the tank onto the other side of the pump. The pump has a one-way-check-valve that won't let water back into the tank, so it creates water pressure on the fixture sides of water system. The pros of this is that you don't have to worry about getting a perfect seal on the tank inlet etc.
If you get a chance, take a few pictures of the tank, the valves etc around it, the inlet where you put water in etc and post them. In the past 47 years alot may have been modified or converted over.
hope that helps
__________________
Scott & Megan
VAC LIBRARIAN WBCCI 8671
1963 Safari from the 1963-64 Around the World Caravan
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06-28-2010, 10:08 PM
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#12
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Vintage Alum. Enthusiast
1959 24' Tradewind
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: I currently do not own a 2nd Airstream
Posts: 4,360
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On a few trailers of this era, I have witnessed a hose bib faucet like on the outside of your house attached to the water fill cap for the tank. I know, it sounds jerry-rigged to me too, but I believe the factory did this instead of providing a different place for the city water supply to connect. If this is the case, I guess you'd use the city water line to fill your tank via a hose but the compressor would need to pressurize the tank for any water to come out onboard your trailer. Does yours have one of these set-ups?
Brad
FF
__________________
4CU 2699 / AIR 10 / TAC AZ-1
I'm haunted by aluminum.
Charter Member of the 4 Corners Unit.
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06-29-2010, 07:58 AM
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#13
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2 Rivet Member
1963 22' Safari
sherman oaks
, California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 73
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thanks for all your input and explanations! I'm getting camping lessons 101 from all of you. I will continue to look for any signs of a city water fill hose bib attachment because I do get the theory of how that would work in it's simplest of form. There is no jerry rigged or otherwise hose bib on the filler cap just the air press nipple. There is a switch next to the galley that I've figured might control the compressor but since I have no 12v power it has never operated anything. I'm on a 12v mission... I will also look for air leaks but there are no water leaks anywhere that I can see (which is good) so I'm going to start w that O-ring. When I originally heard the hiss I thought it might be coming from that T valve next to the air/water fill cap in the water fill compartment but that is on there tight and that's why I asked about it originally. I'll change the O-ring first. It's all a process of elimination. FYI this Safari has been sitting on a lot in Ca. for 40 years. Every single thing is original. I will figure them out 1 by 1. I'm going to put new tires on it tomorrow and I believe those will be the only non original parts to date
Thanks to all
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06-29-2010, 08:08 AM
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#14
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Vintage Alum. Enthusiast
1959 24' Tradewind
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: I currently do not own a 2nd Airstream
Posts: 4,360
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A couple of points about your hiss. First, if its hissing and not dribbling water, its leaking above the water line in the tank and water lines. That's a good thing. Second, use a spray solution of dish soap and water and spray it on the fittings, cap and anywhere else you think it may be leaking. It'll blow bubbles where the leak is located.
Good luck on your mission.
Brad
FF
__________________
4CU 2699 / AIR 10 / TAC AZ-1
I'm haunted by aluminum.
Charter Member of the 4 Corners Unit.
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07-08-2010, 12:49 PM
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#15
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2 Rivet Member
1963 22' Safari
sherman oaks
, California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 73
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thanks to all of you for the advise. Now that the 12v electric is working and hence, the regulator I have water running w pressure in the A/S. I still cant figure out a "city" water fill inlet though. The only water inlet that I can find anywhere on the outside of the trailer is the water fill tube that supplies the water tanks and that's the one with the nipple on it. The nipple I believe is now rendered obsolete since the regulator takes care of the air pressure to the faucets etc.? It is my opinion ( based on no experience) that I have a "closed" water system and all my water is supplied only through the tamks. Seems odd to me but the only hose attachment I can find on the trailer is on the waste empty cap and it is my understanding that that's for the grey water exit.
Any thoughts about city water would be appreciated
Thanks
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07-08-2010, 12:55 PM
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#16
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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I believe that some of the earlier trailers used an adapter cap that had the city water inlet built into it. Since the tank is pressurized, that worked. You may not be able to run city water without finding or making such a cap.
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07-08-2010, 02:18 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
1955 22' Flying Cloud
2021 27' Globetrotter
Gulfport
, Mississippi
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 824
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water hookups
Both my '61 Overlander & my '63 Globetrotter have the pressurized water systems. My '61 has a water faucet with a air nipple next to it-for a manual air pump if the 12v air pump is not working. The '63 just has a water inlet that a water hose screws to fill the tank.
They both have only one water inlet, the same one for city water and to fill the tank.
When using city water, just keep the hose on the water inlet, the water runs through the tank and the city water pressure keeps the water working. If not using the city water, just fill the tank using the same water inlet, put on the cap & pressurize the tank. I have attached pictures of the location of the one & only inlet on both my Airstreams.
Please post a picture of your water inlet for your tank, this may help.
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07-08-2010, 10:02 PM
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#18
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2 Rivet Member
1963 22' Safari
sherman oaks
, California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 73
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I'll post some pics but I think you might be right. There must have been 2 caps but I only have 1. 1 must have had a hose bib attachment to it and you just keep it hooked up and the hose water running for city water. The water pressure would pressurize the system. When you are not near city water you simply switch the cap and the regulator working on 12v will pressureize the water system and you rely on your tank supply of water. With the reg working I don't need to air pressurize the system through the nipple. I thanks tha's just a back up.
Very interesting...
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07-09-2010, 03:40 PM
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#19
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2 Rivet Member
1963 28' Ambassador
Lyme
, Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 99
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Hi mmenchel,
My 63 Ambassador has a water tank cap just like you are describing with the air fitting on it.
I hook up the hose to a valve in the same compartment as the power cord, with a double female hose fitting. The valve is just a simple boiler drain valve with a backflow preventer behind it. If you turn the valve on, no water will come out, its meant to only go in. The hose pressure is all you need, no pump needed. Hooked up this way, it will fill the water tank also.
You use the other fill in case you need to use bottled water or "buckets from the river".
And yes, the small thing is a bleeder valve to depressurize the system, to take the cap off.
Hope this helps, I'm also new to this, but this seems to be how my system works.
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07-09-2010, 08:28 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1963 22' Safari
2020 27' Globetrotter
State of
, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,512
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I don't think the shorter models had two. Our safari had a hose connection on the fill cap for the tank up front under the front window, thats it.
__________________
Scott & Megan
VAC LIBRARIAN WBCCI 8671
1963 Safari from the 1963-64 Around the World Caravan
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