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VTSmitty · 10-07-2015, 08:29 PM

We have a 2013 23FB and are two months into a five month US circumnavigation. The other day, after 5 days on city water, I noticed a small puddle behind the streetside rear wheel. Nothing major, but there's a drip somewhere that results in wetness around the wheel trim. I detached the exterior shower and the city water connector from the outside, since they are closest to the puddle. The shower leaks from the outside fittings when in use, but there's no evidence of a leak inside the skin. The city water connector doesn't appear to leak, but the insulation is wet inside the skin around the connector. There is no evidence of water inside the trailer, either around the hoses or looking back from the water pump, so again whatever leaks is minor. The wet insulation doesn't conclusively show that either (shower or city water fitting) is the cause, but to really tell, or fix, I need to see from the inside. The problem is that I can't find any way to get to those fittings from inside the trailer: the sink and stove block access, and I don't see any way to get to the back side of the fittings. I can't believe that the 23FB was designed so that you have to remove the whole kitchen to troubleshoot or repair the plumbing, but I can't find any access. Does anyone have any experience with this, or suggestions on how to get a closer look?

TCwheels · 10-07-2015, 08:34 PM

Were you running your AC? Could be the condensation drain...

VTSmitty · 10-07-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCwheels

Were you running your AC? Could be the condensation drain...

No, we never use that. And I checked the refrigerator drain as well, don't see any other potential sources other than the city water and exterior shower. And there has been no rain for a week or so, so nothing external.

rd tighe · 10-07-2015, 09:05 PM

Pos hot water pressure is causing the problem. When do you notice the leak? We noticed when we were hooked up to city water and turned on the hot water heater we would get a leak. If we used the pump and blend off the pressure then ran the hot water heater no problem we will be talking to attwood to get a adjusting thermostat. We feel maybe to the water heaters to hot

KWN306 · 10-08-2015, 10:50 AM

I emailed AS and customer service and they sent me detailed plumbing drawings because I was having the same issue.

There is a removable panel under the slide out pantry that has low point water drains. Mine must have had trash in them, I opened and closed them real fast while hooked up to city water and the issue stopped. There are also low point drains behind the H/W heater.

WestieHouse · 10-08-2015, 11:02 AM

"I can't believe that the 23FB was designed so that you have to remove the whole kitchen to troubleshoot or repair the plumbing, "

There are many "I can't believe" design issues on Airstreams. One simple example, "I can't believe" they would place the black tank flush inlet immediately above the fresh water inlet. The gray hose connection inevitably drips onto the fresh water inlet. How difficult or expensive (zero) would it have been to simply reverse these inlets?

I hope to learn from responses to your post. The major saving feature of Airstream are these posts where we learn from one another. In my 8 months of ownership (and 15,000 miles rt from Olympic Peninsula to St. John's, Newfoundland) I have learned as much in this forum (despite a few misguided or misinformed posts than all the manuals and Airstream PDI. Basically, the major lesson I am learning is that we are each on our own to learn, discover, pay, and enjoy the fruits of the Airstream experience. So far it is worth it, but I continue to strengthen my neck muscles as a result of all the head shaking!
D2

KJRitchie · 10-08-2015, 11:21 AM

Could it be the water pressure regulator behind the city water connector is leaking under pressure?

If you take the city water off and pressurize with the water pump does the pump burp occasionally?

Kelvin

VTSmitty · 10-08-2015, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Could it be the water pressure regulator behind the city water connector is leaking under pressure?

If you take the city water off and pressurize with the water pump does the pump burp occasionally?

Kelvin

Kevin,

That would be my guess, as we're off city water now and there is no sign of leakage. The issue is finding a way to get to the water pressure regulator. While I can unscrew it from the outside, as far as I can tell you can't remove it completely without getting at it from the inside. And I can't find a way to get to it without removing the kitchen sink/countertop.

When we are off city water we do get an occasional burp from the water pump; about once every 4-6 hours, very brief. I've never worried about it since it's done that since I put the pump in last year, and there has never been any sign of leakage in that mode.

Dan

VTSmitty · 10-08-2015, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWN306

I emailed AS and customer service and they sent me detailed plumbing drawings because I was having the same issue.

There is a removable panel under the slide out pantry that has low point water drains. Mine must have had trash in them, I opened and closed them real fast while hooked up to city water and the issue stopped. There are also low point drains behind the H/W heater.

Thanks, I'll take a look in both places. I don't think it will help me get to the city water connection from the inside, though.

Dan

VTSmitty · 10-08-2015, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestieHouse

There are many "I can't believe" design issues on Airstreams. One simple example, "I can't believe" they would place the black tank flush inlet immediately above the fresh water inlet. The gray hose connection inevitably drips onto the fresh water inlet. How difficult or expensive (zero) would it have been to simply reverse these inlets?

Yeah, that's one of my favorites. Since we have a Nature's Head and don't use the black tank I keep that one taped over so there's never a chance of confusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestieHouse

Basically, the major lesson I am learning is that we are each on our own to learn, discover, pay, and enjoy the fruits of the Airstream experience. So far it is worth it, but I continue to strengthen my neck muscles as a result of all the head shaking!
D2

I realize that are a lot of compromises to be made in a design, juggling features, convenience, space, weight, etc. Some things you just have do deal with, and despite some of that we really love our 23FB. And the posts on this forum, which we've been following for a few years now, have been really helpful in getting the most out of it.

Dan

KJRitchie · 10-08-2015, 01:59 PM

Looking at the photos of a 23fb at Colonial Airstream the city water hookup is just forward of the two oblong port hole windows. I would think from the interior the back of the city water/regulator would be between the stove and the sink. I can't imagine it being behind the stove since it goes back almost to the wall. There may be enough access to get to the hose fitting that unscrews from the regulator.

Hopefully you see something like this

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f44/...ml#post1537650

Kelvin

HiJoeSilver · 10-08-2015, 03:08 PM

Can you see the inside of the fresh water inlet? If so does it have a length of flexible rubber hose before it transitions to pex? If so there might be enough play to remove the fresh water inlet from the outside pulling a little hose with it. You only need to pull it 1.5" then you'll be able to disconnect the hose on back.
Sometimes hose connection just needs to be tightened.
Under high supply pressure they often leak where the two halves come together. Sometimes just tightening the screws fixes the leak. They are inexpensive, ~$30 on amazon if I remember.

VTSmitty · 10-08-2015, 03:18 PM

KJRichie/HiJoeSilver,

Thanks, I think that's what I needed to know. I didn't want to get too aggressive pulling the fresh water connector out, but if it's as you describe (and the picture showed) I think I have enough to work with. I'll try to bring it out a little farther and tighten things up, and see how that goes.

Dan

HiJoeSilver · 10-08-2015, 03:28 PM

Looking at another post it showed theirs plumbed direct to pex with a 90 degree angle right at the back of the regulator. If yours is done this way it'll be impossible to pull out, again WTF AS.

VTSmitty · 10-19-2015, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rd tighe

Pos hot water pressure is causing the problem. When do you notice the leak? We noticed when we were hooked up to city water and turned on the hot water heater we would get a leak. If we used the pump and blend off the pressure then ran the hot water heater no problem we will be talking to attwood to get a adjusting thermostat. We feel maybe to the water heaters to hot

Finally, back to the Internet! Richard, it looks like you were closest to the truth. After more experimenting it turns out that the leak is not related to being on city water, but rather to the hot water heater. It was just that when on city water we were most likely on a pad and noticed it, while when on the pump we were on grass and didn't. Regardless, if we turn on the water heater (gas or electric) and leave it on the leak will appear over time. Our short term solution is to not leave it on, and that helps a lot.

Did you ever get a response from Atwood, or find a real solution?

Dan

HiJoeSilver · 10-19-2015, 10:54 PM

Sounds like you need to reestablish the bubble in the water heater. If it's gone you have a solid system with no expansion capacity. When the water heater is on it heats up the water causing it to expand increasing the pressure and probably causing a leak. Google how to establish air bubble in rv water heater. Tha air slowly gets absorbed into the water going through the tank and needs to get re established. If that fixes it you can add a small acumulator to the system so you don't have to deal with the bubble in the future. Still want to find the leak and tighten it, not sure if there's a relief valve in your system, that may be where the 'leak' is coming from.

rd tighe · 10-20-2015, 01:22 PM

We just put on a adjustable thermostat (not cheap) easy install.
It has been in for about 2 week. We now have it at a temperature that gives us hot water but less pressure. We have not seen any leakes but we haven't been on city water yet. When we talked to attwood they said open closest valve to the hot water heater and open the pressure relief valve to reestablish a air pocket. I found it doesn't last for very long. I have high hopes on this fix. Will let you know

VTSmitty · 10-22-2015, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rd tighe

We just put on a adjustable thermostat (not cheap) easy install.
It has been in for about 2 week. We now have it at a temperature that gives us hot water but less pressure. We have not seen any leakes but we haven't been on city water yet. When we talked to attwood they said open closest valve to the hot water heater and open the pressure relief valve to reestablish a air pocket. I found it doesn't last for very long. I have high hopes on this fix. Will let you know

Richard (and HiJoeSilver),

We've been resetting the air pocket monthly per the Atwood manual, and that doesn't seem to have any effect. As far as your fix (thermostat), do you have any info to share on where you got it and how much it cost? For the short term it looks like we just have to be aware of not running the hot water heater for too long, and when we get a chance to pull the sink and check for a leak we'll do that. Still would like to know if there's a better way to get back there...

Dan

rd tighe · 10-23-2015, 04:23 PM

Cost for thermostat was aprox $40 we got it a central trailer supply in Albuquerque New Mexico Trailer parts | camping supplies | camper parts | Central Trailer and Supply sow far so good regarding leaks

dkottum · 10-23-2015, 05:56 PM

We also had a small leak at the hot water temperature/pressure release valve when the hot water heated and expanded within the closed system. Found restoring the bubble in water heater works for a short time, then needs to be repeated. So I put a small Shurflo water pressure accumulator from Camping World (or Amazon, etc) under the bathroom sink. That takes up the expansion and no more leaks.

Easy install, screw it to the wall, take off the plumbing line to the bottom of the cold water side of the sink faucet and attach to one side of the accumulator. Then buy another plumbing line from a hardware store and run it from the other side of the accumulator up to the cold water side of the sink faucet.

About $30 for the water pressure accumulator and $5 for a 18" or 24" plumbing line. You might want to put a small hose clamp on the new water line if it's flopping around under there.