Polishing questions

[peejicky]

I've started polishing my trailer using Nuvite products, compounding, and cycloing. I'm getting a good shine but there is almost a grain to the aluminum that can be seen when looking into the reflection. I've used three passes with G6 (compounding), two with C (compounding), and one pass with the cyclo and S. There is no serious corrosion on the aluminum. The side you see polished had very little clearcoat (it was stripped) and the aluminum was oxidized. This was removed easily by the G6. The other side however had full clearcoat and no oxidation. After stripping the clearcoat there is a film(?) on the surface that stripper will not remove. I have provided closups and hope they show what I'm talking about. It has spots that look like popped bubbles and a few places look like brush strokes. No stripper I've tried will remove it so It appears to be part of the aluminum. I've tried the G6 and this film is VERY hard to remove. Here are my questions:

1) Are most of you compounding the grain out of the aluminum or do you leave it?
2) Is the film I'm speaking of on the streetside part of the aluminum surface?
3) How many passes with each grade (applying polish and compounding it) are you guys/gals using?
4) Does anybody have a window to sell? I'm missing the 30 X 22 over the sleeping area?
5) I have two panels to replace on the front of the trailer which appeared to be from jack knifing. What type of aluminum should I use? I plan to purchase it from Airparts Inc.


Thanks in advance for your help. I'm a daily reader of the forums. It's an addiction I think.

P.S. I know I need new axles (LOL)

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Try this stuff sold at Lowes first, then go to Nuvite if you feel it is necessary.

Diamond Brite has made the job 150% faster. Are you sure the clear coat is off? Does black appear instantly after you apply that Nuvite?

[Frank's Trailer Works]

you want 2024 T3 .32 thickness. Tell Diana Frank said hello, Those folks are so excellent to deal with. Just to piss on your campfire a little: to do it right, you need to remove the inner skins and buck those rivets. Olympics are not acceptable in structural repairs, you will need to buck them. Have no fear, it is fun and easy, way cool too... jump in have no fear.

[Jim Foster]

Between compounding with "C" and cycloing with "S", I cyclo with F7. Cycloing with "S" will not remove the swirls left by the coumpounding.

The compounding should make the surface very smooth. Be careful that you are not using too much polish. "Rake" your compounding pad from time to time to keep down the build-up of polish and aluminum material.

[Not Done]

Try a peice of plexiglass to replace the glass in that window. Worked for me. the corners were a bit tricky since you cut in straight lines. Three straight cuts provided enough radius to pass as a corner. Sounded hokey then I saw that others had done this before me so I felt justified. If nothing else you can use the plexiglass untill you find real glass.

[goransons]

I polished most of the graining out, but since we're storing it outside I didn't go to overboard. I did work really hard to get rid of the pitting, but yes, lines that look almost like roller marks were reduced, but totally removed. I found C did a good job of those lines btw.

[3Ms75Argosy]

Maybe your AS was re-clearcoated, and etched first. That "film' does look like brushmarks. Again, are you sure the clear coat is off that "film" area, does it turn black when you compound it?

Those bubbles look like filform... which is caused by oxidation under the clearcoat. Nasty stuff. Try F7 or harsher to cut through it, then G6.

Your curbside looks great, btw!
Keep at it!
Marc

[themunks]

We just about finished up our polish job. Everytime the guy would finish, we would find something or want it brighter. We have a 84 soveriegn and it has been polished twice now. Maybe have to go for 3.
This pic is when the new wheels were put on, getting close.

[vhord]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Olympics are not acceptable in structural repairs, you will need to buck them.

I too have two forward corner panels to replace. I thought I had read that Olympic rivets were acceptable on exterior wall sheets. I can't find it now but I think it was Andy at Inland that said it. I have my inner skins removed but do not have the tools or experience to buck rivet them.

Any advice will be appreciated.

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by vhord

I too have two forward corner panels to replace. I thought I had read that Olympic rivets were acceptable on exterior wall sheets. I can't find it now but I think it was Andy at Inland that said it. I have my inner skins removed but do not have the tools or experience to buck rivet them.

Any advice will be appreciated.

vhord,

Bucking rivets is not complicated, but a lesson would be a good idea. The equipment is a air chisel, available at Harbor Freight for about $10, a bucking bar, available at Aircraft Spruce for about $10 and up, I bought this one :P/N 12-01298, rivet sets, available at Aircraft Spruce for less than $10, rivets, correct drill bit, available from Inland for about $10 or so and an air compressor.

Since you have the inside skins out, buck rivets would be better than olympic rivets.

I would be glad to show you but you are a little far away.

Bill

[n2batr]

I may have your window. Do you need the riveted frame and window or just the window glass and inner frame? The measurements I have on this one are 22x30.5 glass plus inner frame. Let me know. Ed

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Originally Posted by vhord

I too have two forward corner panels to replace. I thought I had read that Olympic rivets were acceptable on exterior wall sheets. I can't find it now but I think it was Andy at Inland that said it. I have my inner skins removed but do not have the tools or experience to buck rivet them.

Any advice will be appreciated.

You have to buck them.... olympics will not hold up to the stress. One or two to replace a rivet that has lost it's grip is okay. Or mounting an object, but not a skin. I am very surprised to hear someone say that it was an exceptable practice to use olympics for structural repairs. It is actually much easier than you think. Just remove the interior furniture and skins. You will have complete access to the backside of the exterior skin. Aerowood has excellent pictures of how he did it. He did go the extra mile and is treating it like a plane being built for the defense industry, but he shows exactly what needs to be done. You will need a bunch of clecos too.

Ed, Are you offering more hard to find parts? Ed was the kind person that supplied my with my missing drip cap. I installed it a few weeks ago and am now polishing in that area. Thanks again Ed.

[vhord]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

You have to buck them.... olympics will not hold up to the stress. One or two to replace a rivet that has lost it's grip is okay. Or mounting an object, but not a skin. I am very surprised to hear someone say that it was an exceptable practice to use olympics for structural repairs.

Sorry, I really don't want to beat a dead horse but I had to look back in the forum to make sure that I had not dreamed something. One of the threads that I was referring to is this one.

Also, if buck rivets are a must I may have a problem with a large sheet that was apparently replaced on the street side by the PO or dealer.



The picture is of a horizonal rib but the vertical ribs are also attached with olympics. I want to do this right the first time but also I do not want to do any unnecessary work. Believe me I have plenty of other work to do.

Thanks everyone for their input.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

You have to buck them.... olympics will not hold up to the stress. One or two to replace a rivet that has lost it's grip is okay. Or mounting an object, but not a skin. I am very surprised to hear someone say that it was an exceptable practice to use olympics for structural repairs. Ed.

Olympics are a fastener. Any fastener can cause a problem if not properly used.

I helped getting the present style Olympic rivet to the market place about 37 years ago, when I was with the Insurance division of Airstream, called Caravanner Insurance Company.

The Airstream factory uses them to replace complete sheets, as well as the dealers that do that kind of work, including ourselves.

Olympics are very acceptable to repair any part of the shell, when used properly.

If not used properly, then 1000's and 1000's of sheetmetal repairs jobs would be falling apart all over the world, which they are not.

Andy

[InsideOut]

Andy, please define "when used properly".

We are embarking on major panel replacement projects on both of our trailers this weekend. One ('56) bucked and one ('64) w/Olympics...I would sure like to know how to use Olympics "properly" prior to starting to keep from having to do this twice.

Also, how would one use Olympics improperly...doesn't seem like there are too many options on how to use them, they're actually pretty simple technology ~ put it in the hole (w/Vulkem), pull it, shave it.

Shari

[Frank's Trailer Works]

There are many ways to skin a trailer. There are many different opinion as to the right way. You choose for yourself. I know that I, Me, Myself will not be doing any kind of structural repairs with olympics. I will be using solid rivets. I think solid is the right way to go. I do not have 37 years of experience, but I do have my opinion. Ironically, my opinion is shares by many other, some are actually called professionals. Putting on a patch, a 46" drip cap, a belt line, well, I say perfect fit. Replacing a panel, not the right fit.
You decide for yourself....

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Andy, please define "when used properly".

We are embarking on major panel replacement projects on both of our trailers this weekend. One ('56) bucked and one ('64) w/Olympics...I would sure like to know how to use Olympics "properly" prior to starting to keep from having to do this twice.

Also, how would one use Olympics improperly...doesn't seem like there are too many options on how to use them, they're actually pretty simple technology ~ put it in the hole (w/Vulkem), pull it, shave it.

Shari

Buck riveting permits sloppy workmanship. The holes thru the metal don't have to be straight, the holes can be the wrong size, the rivet gun can be held at an angle, and all is forgiven, because the rivet swells.

Using Olympic rivets takes a little more care and technique.

The drilled holes must be reasonably straight, and the rivet gun must be held at 90 degrees from the metal.

Olympic rivets do not swell like buck rivets.

Olympic rivets should also have a small bead of Vulkem placed around the shank of the rivet, before it's inserted into the hole. When that is properly done, the Olympic rivet is sealed behind the head and around the shank, once the pin is pulled.

Buck riveting work must be sealed from the backside, therefore no sealer is under the rivet head or around it's shank.

Buck rivets are much cheaper than Olympic rivets.

Using a #21 drill bit for Olympic rivets is correct, not #20 as some choose to do. A #20 allows way too much slop for the rivet shank.

OLYMPICS WITH WASHERS IS AN ABSOLUTE NO NO.

Why???

The rubber washer deteriorates in time, and when it does, every rivet that used the washer, will leak. Who ever came up with the idea of using rubber washers with Olympic rivets, on an Airstream, did not think very far into the future. It at best, is a very poor way to do proper metal replacement.

Sloppy workmanship, is never an acceptable excuse when working on sheet metal replacement.

Segment replacements should have a bead of vulkem injected between the seams, then riveted. Same way with the lower and window sheets.

The roof sheet is handled differently. After all the rivets holes are drill in the roof sheet, the sheet is set aside so that all the metal shavings can be removed. Then, a good bead of Vulkem sealer is placed on every main bow and horizontal stringer, and on the adjoining metal. The roof sheet is then placed back into position and riveted with Olympics.

Using that procedure will insure a roof replacement, with NO leaks.

There is a specific technique that must be used, regardless of the type fastener, nails, screws, rivets and the like.

If not done properly, most any fastener system used, will become inadequate in short order.

Using Olympic rivets is a piece of cake, BUT, using the proper technique, is a must, since they are not as forgiving as a buck rivets, but they certainly have more than held up to the task.

Using Olympic rivets will hold an Airstream together just as well as buck rivets, any day.

35 plus years of use, more than demonstrates that fact.

Andy

[Tarheel]

Well written and well said Andy.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Buck riveting permits sloppy workmanship. The holes thru the metal don't have to be straight, the holes can be the wrong size, the rivet gun can be held at an angle, and all is forgiven, because the rivet swells.

Using Olympic rivets takes a little more care and technique.

The drilled holes must be reasonably straight, and the rivet gun must be held at 90 degrees from the metal.

Olympic rivets do not swell like buck rivets.

Olympic rivets should also have a small bead of Vulkem placed around the shank of the rivet, before it's inserted into the hole. When that is properly done, the Olympic rivet is sealed behind the head and around the shank, once the pin is pulled.

Buck riveting work must be sealed from the backside, therefore no sealer is under the rivet head or around it's shank.

Buck rivets are much cheaper than Olympic rivets.

Using a #21 drill bit for Olympic rivets is correct, not #20 as some choose to do. A #20 allows way too much slop for the rivet shank.

OLYMPICS WITH WASHERS IS AN ABSOLUTE NO NO.

Why???

The rubber washer deteriorates in time, and when it does, every rivet that used the washer, will leak. Who ever came up with the idea of using rubber washers with Olympic rivets, on an Airstream, did not think very far into the future. It at best, is a very poor way to do proper metal replacement.

Sloppy workmanship, is never an acceptable excuse when working on sheet metal replacement.

Segment replacements should have a bead of vulkem injected between the seams, then riveted. Same way with the lower and window sheets.

The roof sheet is handled differently. After all the rivets holes are drill in the roof sheet, the sheet is set aside so that all the metal shavings can be removed. Then, a good bead of Vulkem sealer is placed on every main bow and horizontal stringer, and on the adjoining metal. The roof sheet is then placed back into position and riveted with Olympics.

Using that procedure will insure a roof replacement, with NO leaks.

There is a specific technique that must be used, regardless of the type fastener, nails, screws, rivets and the like.

If not done properly, most any fastener system used, will become inadequate in short order.

Using Olympic rivets is a piece of cake, BUT, using the proper technique, is a must, since they are not as forgiving as a buck rivets, but they certainly have more than held up to the task.

Using Olympic rivets will hold an Airstream together just as well as buck rivets, any day.

35 plus years of use, more than demonstrates that fact.

Andy

And that is why an airstream is constructed of what kind of rivets? SOLID RIVETS......

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

And that is why an airstream is constructed of what kind of rivets? SOLID RIVETS......

More than 75 years has demonstrated that.