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Old 04-21-2005, 04:01 PM   #15
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Wool pads?

Starman,

Can you tell me the method with the wool pads? I just ordered some Nuvite today. Are you using the different levels / grades of Nuvite?

Rob
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Old 04-21-2005, 05:18 PM   #16
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pads

HI Rob... im definitly not the expert here... but im using the wool 7" discs on my 1/2" drill for compounding...In regards to the nuvite... i have alot of scratches so im starting with f-9.... then going to g-6 then to c... I figure I will cyclo with f-7 then s...Ive read people arent happy with the f-9 as it leaves deep swirls... I would think if your skin isnt so bad you can start with g-6 or c....im still thinking the investment in an airmark tool would be the hot ticket... I have a drywall texture machine my guys use that has a 40 cfm compressor on it... so I think I would have the air to run it.. just give them a few days off and take my machine to my house and have at it.. better yet have them polish it for me... its definitly not too much fun but I can tell the payoff is going to be worth it in the long run
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Old 04-22-2005, 01:09 PM   #17
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This is not directed at anyone-

...and I'm not out to offend, just promote fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken J
Lookin great! Airmark is great stuff, but it takes a little more to use it - its high speed so its easier to burn the aluminum - I think the reason the compounder/cylo is so popular is because us hobby types can use it and get great results+ its a lot less expensive than Airmark.

Some of the advice here is cause for concern-

I consider myself blind. I consider myself dumb- I have to ask questions and come to intelligent solutions, and those I ask to as qualified personel as I can find.

I'm searching high and low for an easy way to polish mine- I called airmark and a place in Toronto called Spec. They both sell the same type equipment. Both said they generate no heat on the surface!

I don't know how a cyclo cost less than an airmark. I'm told my 22' trailer will take around 2-3 days and thats going over it twice with a drum polisher. I've seen these guys at the airport down the road put out 2 trailers- aside from planes- and both in less than a week each. They're using buffers and homemade polish from a blender after wet sanding.

You folks are telling everyone about this system that you use, how great it is, and how much less it costs. My 150-200 hours is worth more than the difference- you figure the supplies in at $400 and the cyclo with freight at around $275, and its the same. If I need to rent a compressor for 3 days at $60 a day for the job- its money well spent. Airmark says that the circle compounding alone removes so much aluminum with the nuvite stuff that its caused tremendous damage before you start- then you have to use their other products to remove their damage. His drum system causes no damage- according to him- but who knows? Maybe he's lying?

I'm leaning towards the wet sand, home made blender polish, and buffer job. I'm not ready to do it yet, but who knows what I'll discover when I get there.

My Grandma told me that sometimes people who make mistakes want others to follow them so they don't feel bad about being the only ones who made them- I'd certainly hope that people here have open eyes and minds and avoid the lemming trail that this nuvite and cyclo spell has cast on many- there are multiple- and from what I see- better ways- thats my opinion- and like I said- I'm blind- not trying to lead anyone- just find out info.
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Old 04-22-2005, 01:43 PM   #18
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Ok......

I've been following this polishing stuff for about 7 years - go back into the archives and do your research.

I stand by what I say - don't know how anyone could say that something rotating on a surface will not cause heat - ever hear of rubbing two sticks to make a fire?

I am reluctant to say much more - I'm very familer with Jim Weston (owner of Airmark) and his products - I'm also very aware of Nuvite (and Perfect polishing) and I'm very familer with Rollite - they are all fine products

Best of luck to you

Ken J.
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Old 04-22-2005, 02:17 PM   #19
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Talking Talk is cheap ....Airstreams are expensive!

I would suggest to anyone who wants to polish a trailer to ask those who have actually done it. Also be wary of those offering advice who have never done it!

Polishing a trailer is a huge investment in time, labor, money, tools, but it's worth it in the end.

Some of the easier ways have proven not to last, or not as deep a polish as others.

If you want your trailer to shine like the one on the back of the Spring 2005 AS Life, why not ask Herb Spies how he did it. The answer may suprise you
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safari Tim
I would suggest to anyone who wants to polish a trailer to ask those who have actually done it. Also be wary of those offering advice who have never done it!

Polishing a trailer is a huge investment in time, labor, money, tools, but it's worth it in the end.

Some of the easier ways have proven not to last, or not as deep a polish as others.

If you want your trailer to shine like the one on the back of the Spring 2005 AS Life, why not ask Herb Spies how he did it. The answer may suprise you
I get what you're saying Tim- however Herb Spies did it and put it on the back cover of a magazine doesn't tell me anything- it is a magazine, so what?- and no, I'm not buying it just to see a picture of 1 shiny trailer.

You say to ask someone who's done it- I AM asking- an aviation maintenance facility that is FAA approved- not Joes Backyard Polishing Company. And I saw and posted some pics of what they did in much less time than what your huge and forever thread says it takes- don't be offended- its just a fact that you and others selected a process that no one else has told me is the fastest and best way to go- I promise you this- I think its the last system I'd try. I see what the other way is, what the other tools do, and what makes sense. You did it in a way that took 150 to 200 hours- why won't you accept that there are people out there who do this professionally, do it faster, come out with great results in a fraction of the time- and allow the rest of us to explore and choose it instead of following your advice? Are you knocking me for wanting to know how an aircraft is polished by professionals? What insecurities is that bringing out in you? Are you afraid that the trailer world will find out that you chose a system that doesn't work as well as another, and have to cut it down and say "ask someone who's done it" to scare away any who want an alternative? I think admitting that you are in fear of someone saying that you may have wasted most of your free time last summer in choosing that system and spending way too much money on tools and products, would be a great start in getting past it. Denying that there are other viable options will not make you appear honest and it causes people to see you as closed minded and afraid.

Alcoa makes a lot of aluminum- very little of it appears to be polished using nuvite and cyclos. Brian at Airmark said "try and imagine that dinky slow machine and a guy under a 747 trying to shine the belly of that huge aircraft- by the time he got to the back, it would be time to start over again."
It seems it would take 30 people with cyclos a month to polish a 747, and granted- he is selling a tool that competes with it- but its accepted, its the standard in the aircraft industry - and why would you argue that we're not asking those who "have done it"? Just because you have, don't poison those of us who are still searching by cutting down others who have, and making these insane challenges. I personally think you made a mistake. Its my choice to follow that or attempt something else- and unfortunately for you- you do not have the only shiny aluminum object- or the biggest.

I doubt I'll buy one, but the Spec and Airmark are the way to go, IMO, and have a swirl free finish when completed. they do cost some money- but the reults and time savings are probably worth it, plus you could actually re-sell it after and just touch up yearly with a buffer and soft pads- then what the cost be? The Spec has the exhaust through the handle and more power- uses an Atlas Copco that is tops! They both stand by the lack of heat issue, and said to try it and feel it if I had doubts...

Please allow those of us with our own minds to use them, and don't be offended if we don't agree with you. Its quite natural- but try and think past it with an open mind. Possibly the next time you polish, you'll use another system that will be cheap enough that you can ebay your cyclo and use the money to pay for the entire jobs supplies and have it done in 3 days like these other folks are doing...

My apologies to any who feel that standing up for my opinion is offensive...
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Old 04-23-2005, 09:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken J
Ok......

I've been following this polishing stuff for about 7 years - go back into the archives and do your research.

I stand by what I say - don't know how anyone could say that something rotating on a surface will not cause heat - ever hear of rubbing two sticks to make a fire?

I am reluctant to say much more - I'm very familer with Jim Weston (owner of Airmark) and his products - I'm also very aware of Nuvite (and Perfect polishing) and I'm very familer with Rollite - they are all fine products

Best of luck to you

Ken J.
Ken- I've done some research on the archives- enough to know there is something for sale that is not for me. I don't find anyone posting that they've polished a trailer in 3 days using nuvite and a cyclo. I also see that whenever there is a different suggestion made- that are taken from legitimate people polishing other aluminum products- aircraft, motorcycles, trucks, boats, etc., as well as trailers- they are immediately attacked and shut down. Its often the same style of guerilla attack, with several of the same people pumping the cyclo and nuvite mantra.

My question to you is this- if you are very familiar, (familer?) with someone who owns airmark, perhaps you can gather a statement for us on the heat and the 2 sticks rubbing together. I'm sure that some minor heat is generated, but ask him to fire the person I spoke with, Brian, if its more than that, for making fraudulent statements and misleading potential clients. Also ask that owner if he takes 150-200 hours when polishing. I was told they come out and take a day to strip and remove all the lights and prep, 2 days to polish and replace everything and its about $3800 for the service. Maybe they secretly use cyclos and don't tell anyone.

Remember how this thread was started- someone saying that the cyclo and nuvite are killing him. Some are telling him to live with it- I'm only saying that I'm not an expert, but am seeking the same solution he is. That "no pain, no gain" thing some are pushing is not factual. And someone says that a cyclo is a remake of a 1940's antiquated Sears Kenmore home polishing kit. Times have changed- I'm looking for the latest and greatest, not a has been.

And thanks for your suggestion of going back into the archives, as well as your wish for my luck!
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:39 AM   #22
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This all sounds very familer to me............... Someone lashing out at those of us who have done a lot of polishing by someone who has never polished.

Anyway, a bit of history - I never said there was anything wrong with Airmark - they do a very nice job and they are highly regarded in the Airstream community.

Early on, Airmark was the polish of choice - I remember Jim Weston warning us about burning the skin - with or without his equipment. Not a terribly bad thing because after it cools you can go back and repolish and in most cases repair the damage.

So many of us used their products - air and power. I have some of there polish sitting in my garage - I've used it.

Then Rollite came along - most of us liked it better
Then Nuvite came along - most of us liked it better.

I've used all three - I'll stick with Nuvite with a Rollite sealer

So don't sit there and lecture us about change...... you will find we are open to changes and none of us particularly like spending hundreds of hours polishing our trailers - In my case, Nuvite has been the quickest, best method. If I were to buy the Airmark tools - I would still use Nuvite. My original warning was, in my opinion, Airmark is more of a high speed process - best left to those who do polishing (like on 747's) for a living.

I suggest you use whatever method suits you best - no one is telling you what to on your trailer - we were asked a question and a couple of us who have polished a lot reponded in the spirit oh helping. So I think if you want to sand your trailer, coat it with acid, polish it with high speed polishers - you will be done in a couple of hours and hopefully you will be please with your results.

Let we said to the last person that responded like you - let us know how it turns out.

We have yet to hear back..............
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:57 AM   #23
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I'm not dismissing the fact that the Airmark System is a superior polishing method, obviously it is if the airlines use it on the 747s. It's just I don't think it's practical for an individual to go out and purchase everything you need for a single trailer. As I added it up, it'll cost someone approximately $9075 to get the buffers, accessories, pads, compounds you would need to do your first trailer....assuming you already own a air compressor capable of running this equipment at the proper speeds.

That coupled with the need for a gigantic air compresor (70 CFM Delivery at 100 PSI) which on the Airmark website costs $6375 on it's own - none of the attachments included. Now if you already have an air compressor capable of running this equipment you do save that $6375.

The cost for a one time polish is HUGE! Even if you take into account the time saved...Heck, that's more than 4 times the cost of my trailer! If someone were planning on making a business out of it...it might pencil out, but most of us are just hobbists.

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Old 04-23-2005, 11:12 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelCloud
Possibly the next time you polish, you'll use another system that will be cheap enough that you can ebay your cyclo and use the money to pay for the entire jobs supplies and have it done in 3 days like these other folks are doing...
Nothing more I like more than seeing a polished trailer. Can't wait to see yours!

Don't forget to post progress reports over the three days!
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Old 04-23-2005, 11:12 AM   #25
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Yes of course you hear something familiarbecause there are more than your way to do things- and as you say- its high speed and the best solution for some people is to have a nice job quickly- not to spend 150-200 hours with old designs and slow machines. The polish is by choice- but the rouge base is the same- unless they have some space age system of making rouge.

I'm not swearing by any system- but as the starter of this thread says- its killing him. I'm only stating facts- when someone chooses another system and polish- people gang up and attack. Don't make it sound like I'm talking from a throne of superiority- I've simply stated facts, to which you say are untrue. Prove it- call them and ask for a letter stating that their tools and pads burn. That was what I said to you- remember? Don't change things for your argument to appear differently, and don't say that I'm lashing out at you just because I'm calling you on it. The same company said differently than you say someone who you claim to be familiar(familer?) with, so just back it up with proof. And I also undertsand that burning the skin stretches and warps it- possibly removing a layer of pure aluminum "cladding" that is applied, so I'll respectfully disagree with your "fact" on that as well.

You also claim that you and others have done a lot of polishing- how many trailers is "a lot" exactly? I saw a guy doing 2 in 1 month in his spare time at the airport, and they took less than a week each...

And should someone have not responded to you after being bashed as you are commencing with me- I wouldn't be surprised- especially when the others start chiming in- which I suppose should be expected very soon. Not to worry- I'm a mental strength expert, your bantering and trickery aren't having the same effect. Just deal in facts and the truth will surface- so far your facts are not working well- read back. You said that airmark burns- then you said its the polish, then you said its no big deal. Which is it?

Oh, and thanks for the enlightenment on the history of polishing.
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Old 04-23-2005, 11:55 AM   #26
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I wish you well with your project................
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut
I'm not dismissing the fact that the Airmark Sysem is a superior polishing method, obviously it is if the airlines use it on the 747s. It's just I don't think it's practical for and individual to go out and purchase everything you need for a single trailer. As I added it up, it'll cost someone approximately $9075 to get the buffers, accessories, pads, compounds you would need to do your first trailer....assuming you already own a air compressor capable of running this equipment at the proper speeds. Heck, that's more than 2-1/2 times the cost of my trailer!

That coupled with the need for a gigantic air compresor (70 CFM Delivery at 100 PSI) which on the Airmark website costs $6375 on it's own - none of the attachments included. Now if you already have an air compressor capable of running this equipment you do save that $6375.

The cost for a one time polish is HUGE! Even if you take into account the time saved...Heck, that's more than 3-1/2 times the cost of my trailer! If someone were planning on making a business out of it...it might pencil out, but most of us are just hobbiests.

Shari
Ah yes- I've seen where you are the moderator defender of the "only" system that you also fell prey to in the past. Will I too be hammered and removed for not going along with the norm?

The amount of polish and choice of polish is the same regardless of tool choice. I'm told its figured on square footage. I've seen results from home made polish- it works, Wet sanding also works- I've posted pics and will again when I see more, which will be before I've chosen my method and taken the 3-4 days to do it.

I respectfully disagree with your cost figures. Yes they do sell a very high tech compact compressor. To run one of these, I was told that 25cfm at 90psi was adequate for constant use. More lies from Brian and the person at Spec? Perhaps.

I suggested that a compressor could be rented- Nation Rents has a trailer compressor- will run 3 or more of these at once. Its made for jack hammers and costs $60 a day. Take it for the weekend and a day and you have less than $200 added in. Slightly less than $6300 and no storage problem.

I'm not looking at the premium system- I'm interested in a rebuilt one, and they're about $800. If I can buy it once and use it many times, save 150 hours the first time. If I charged what I make an hour- ridiculous. But lets be realistic- I'll figure it at $15 an hour- what a decent worker would charge in my area, and thats $2250!

So- cyclo vs airmark- on a realistic time/tool material comparison.

cyclo- $275, man hours- 200 @ $15 per- $3000, total job cost- $3275.
airmark- $800, man hours on a VERY high scale- 50 @ $15- $450, compressor rental- $200, total job cost- $1450.

Over TWICE as much- thats HUGE! The savings are compounded yearly when you go over it, or lend it to friends.

All that time I could be spending with my family and camping is worth more than the money, and the job comes out without the damage and removal from the coarse grades of polish that occurs with compounding.

Pretty simple to me- but I'll still probably use the buffer.
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:07 PM   #28
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Like the old Nike advertisment...

Just do it!
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